1 minute ago, Saltpeter said:

Drew Brees was limited (arm strength/height). Tom Brady is limited (mobility). Russell Wilson is limited (height). Kyler Murray is limited (height). All these guys have to have their limitations schemed around. It's called coaching, and on the player's end, it's called humility.

Yeah, some limitations are more severe than others.

2 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

Yeah, some limitations are more severe than others.

Sure, but some of you guys are living in a fantasy land where just because a guy is tall, mobile, and ultra strong-armed that he is automatically more of an NFL starting QB than others.

Starting qb? Perhaps

championship qb? Very very unlikely

Just now, ToastJenkins said:

Starting qb? Perhaps

championship qb? Very very unlikely

And Carson Wentz, the guy who can't consistently throw an accurate 5 yd pass, is?! Get outta here.

10 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

He can not throw on the run...period.  

Considering the fact that I just posted a tweet showing him doing exactly that....

11 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

Oh no doubt about it - Brady has HOF charisma +10. He's not the GOAT. But I don't believe in the GOAT. 

Still - 9 points

Can you say with certainty that if Manning had been drafted by the Patriots and Brady by the Colts that the results of both teams wouldn't have been similar? 

This is hard to say objectively...but subjectively I believe the shoe would have switched feet.  Manning wilted in the playoffs year after year, but Manning was drafted to be the guy and Brady was drafted to back up and established starter.  So on the other side of the coin, I'd take Manning at 199 over Brady at 1 without revisionist history.

2 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

And Carson Wentz, the guy who can't consistently throw an accurate 5 yd pass, is?! Get outta here.

He played at an mvp level and we won one. We dont win it without him

2020 does not exist in a vacuum

17 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

A few  players on defense I really like 

Zaven Collins 

Alim McNeill 

Hamilcar Rashed 

Ronnie Perkins 

Joe Tryon

Daviyon Nixon

Derrick Barnes 

I love Collins.  He just has Ravens, Steelers, Giants,  Patriots or Cowboys all over him though.  The Eagles would never go for a linebacker as good as him.

11 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Drew Brees was limited (arm strength/height). Tom Brady is limited (mobility). Russell Wilson is limited (height). Kyler Murray is limited (height). All these guys have to have their limitations schemed around. It's called coaching, and on the player's end, it's called humility.

Brees and Brady need to be left out of this, 2 of the best to ever play the position and 2 of the best at moving in the pocket and maintaining mechanics.  Wilson might just be the exception and not the norm.  Murray...well he sucks so IDK why you'd mention him.

Just now, bpac55 said:

I love Collins.  He just has Ravens, Steelers, Giants,  Patriots or Cowboys all over him though.  The Eagles would never go for a linebacker as good as him.

He can cover and pressure the QB at 260  , might be my favorite defensive player in the draft  , Nixon is up there too.

Collins seems ideal for a 3-4 olb. Late first i figure

would gladly take him rd 2

1 minute ago, Original Sin said:

Colts would have won more superbowls,  Pat's less.

You don't know that - and as hard as it is to imagine I think the Pats win more - the Colts less.

Championships are a team accomplishment. The Patriots and Colts were different teams. The Colts had better offensive skill players but their offense had to mask defensive deficiencies just as the Patriots defense kept games close allowing the HOFer the opportunity to manufacture a win at the end. After the neck injury Manning's decline was apparent and rapid. His Broncos SB was more on the defense and less on him.

Brady had some WRs that passed through Philadelphia - they were no better for Brady then they were for McNabb. Manning had some HOF WRs to work with but Wes Welker was the same WR for Manning that he was for Brady. Look what happened to Demaryius Thomas and Julius Thomas after no longer playing with Manning. 

So we are clear - I'm not promoting Peyton Manning as the GOAT - as I said I don't believe in a GOAT - I think when you are talking HOFers you are splitting hairs as to who is better. Unique circumstances skew the perspective. I can't put Manning on the Patriots for the past 20 years so there is no way for me (or you) to actually know. I just think they are similar caliber players with different strengths and weaknesses and the outcome for each could be better or worse + or - 2.

2 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Collins seems ideal for a 3-4 olb. Late first i figure

would gladly take him rd 2

That's my thought.  It will be interesting to see if it was a coaching or organizational mindset regarding linebackers.  

6 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

He played at an mvp level and we won one. We dont win it without him

2020 does not exist in a vacuum

He played at an MVP level for 13 games and the Eagles got home field advantage. But he has zero career playoff wins. ZERO. On a team that has played 3 playoff games since his return from the knee injury.

Situational football, clutch play, an intangible "it factor" -- that stuff matters. Derek Carr isn't that far off from Wentz in terms of physical ability, and he sure has acceptable stats, but he's just as infuriating as Wentz to watch. Stats and physical benchmarks aren't everything. 

7 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

This is hard to say objectively...but subjectively I believe the shoe would have switched feet.  Manning wilted in the playoffs year after year, but Manning was drafted to be the guy and Brady was drafted to back up and established starter.  So on the other side of the coin, I'd take Manning at 199 over Brady at 1 without revisionist history.

I don't agree that Manning "wilted in the playoffs". Manning's Colts defense was soft and each year heading into the playoffs Manning felt he had to put up 40 just to have a chance. Colts won the SB once they actually had a reliable defense. Meanwhile - Brady could always count on the Patriots defense keeping them in the game. As I pointed out in another post - unique circumstances skew the perspective.

Imo Collins is definitely at 34 olb in the NFL. 

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I don’t care what Merril says.  Hurts does not have great NFL arm talent.  Wait for when he needs to make that 10 yard sideline pass.   My guess is they won’t attempt it much.   

No one has claimed Hurts has a great arm, neither does Watson for that matter, or Brees, or Brady the last decade, nor Peyton in his mid-30s or Dak or . . .

Hurts has a good enough arm, stronger than Bridgewater, etc. He has more than enough NFL velocity to make 95% of the throws that are actually made in games. His deep throws aren't wounded ducks that allow a safety to recover.

So let's get past those guys who throw it through the uprights on their knees from the 50 yard line, and focus on actual game skills.

The questions with Hurts are going to be mechanics, pocket presence and anticipation, not whether he can gun it through a window because he's late seeing his WR come open. He'll have no problem making the 10 yard sideline pass, the question is whether he'll recognize that the CB has deep help and is going to jump the route. Maybe he won't throw a strike across his body or make the 30 yard deep out across the field, but those throws can be taken out of his repertoire with little impact on success or failure. More important is can he recognize the defense when they try to disguise it, see the LB dropping into the underneath route and avoid forcing the ball into double coverage.

1 minute ago, ToastJenkins said:

Collins seems ideal for a 3-4 olb. Late first i figure

would gladly take him rd 2

Cameron McGrone is the guy I'm looking at almost exclusively.  Allows Singleton to play WLB.  My ideal first 3 picks in this draft would be trading back and taking Horn/Davis/McGrone or Horn/McGrone/Moses (or Dix).

There is no debate as to who is the better pro ,Manning or Brady

 

1 minute ago, Original Sin said:

There is no debate as to who is the better pro ,Manning or Brady

 

Because you said so? I think there is much to debate.

1 minute ago, Wentz_Era said:

Cameron McGrone is the guy I'm looking at almost exclusively.  Allows Singleton to play WLB.  My ideal first 3 picks in this draft would be trading back and taking Horn/Davis/McGrone or Horn/McGrone/Moses (or Dix).

McGrone ,Davis ,Barnes ,there are some good backers in the draft

17 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

Brees and Brady need to be left out of this, 2 of the best to ever play the position and 2 of the best at moving in the pocket and maintaining mechanics.  Wilson might just be the exception and not the norm.  Murray...well he sucks so IDK why you'd mention him.

It's not a comparison. It's a rebuttal to the assumption that a QB has to hit every physical benchmark to be a successful starting NFL QB (disagreement on Kyler Murray's ability notwithstanding).

4 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

I don't agree that Manning "wilted in the playoffs". Manning's Colts defense was soft and each year heading into the playoffs Manning felt he had to put up 40 just to have a chance. Colts won the SB once they actually had a reliable defense. Meanwhile - Brady could always count on the Patriots defense keeping them in the game. As I pointed out in another post - unique circumstances skew the perspective.

Which is why I said subjectively...the whole premise is opinion based.  Manning had a losing playoff record with the Colt and his only SB win with them he got to play the Rex Grossman led Bears and barely did anything in that game.  Hence why my opinion was what I stated.

5 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

Cameron McGrone is the guy I'm looking at almost exclusively.  Allows Singleton to play WLB.  My ideal first 3 picks in this draft would be trading back and taking Horn/Davis/McGrone or Horn/McGrone/Moses (or Dix).

I am worries Horn is a flag machine

would be fine going cb with the first pick. Like farley alot

really want the tcu safety in the second but he could go late first too

4 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

McGrone ,Davis ,Barnes ,there are some good backers in the draft

McGrone is a projection given the lack of sustained film...but from what I've seen he's the best 3 down 4/3 guy in the draft.  Granted my looks into LB's isn't all that deep.