16 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

It's absolutely pathetic.  I'm rooting for the kid and I really hope he has the chance to prove people like you wrong. 

We will be rooting for him when the games start, but we all don't see anything special, and are pointing it out.

It sure is ironic that you are bashing people for making up their minds after four games, when you made up you mind the second Wentz blew his ACL that the Eagles season was over.  Or that you made up your mind that RR was the second best WR on the Eagles roster before he got to the facility.  

1 minute ago, greend said:

C'mon J.R.  Manning and Brady knowing where the ball is going pre-snap is absolutely not the same as Hurts looking at 1 receiver and then taking off and you know it. You'll rarely catch Manning or Brady wanting to take off running if their first read isn't open. Can he learn otherwise? Possibly. Will he? I think we'll find out. 

Sorry, it is exactly the same for Manning/Brady and Hurts. The read is the same; it's just that Manning and Brady are better and more practiced at it. If you know where you're going with the ball before the snap, it's one-read and it's a pre-snap read.

5 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

You don’t take backup QBs in the 2nd round. Especially when you can get high end starters at another position there.

Low-end starters at QB is worth a 2nd rounder.

It was just dumb for us because we had a solid QB already on the roster.

We simply don't know what was being called those four games, if Hurts didn't practice with the ones, and was doing a lot of scout team duty (Sudfeld can't imitate a mobile QB), then he wasn't prepared to run the offense, especially since he had no exhibition games. Compare to Wentz as a rookie who practiced with the 1s and got a lot of preseason play. So far all we know the plays called for Hurts was a simplified scheme with him told to only make one or two looks and then take off.

2 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Sorry, it is exactly the same for Manning/Brady and Hurts. The read is the same; it's just that Manning and Brady are better and more practiced at it. If you know where you're going with the ball before the snap, it's one-read and it's a pre-snap read.

They're also experienced enough to make the right pre-snap read, audible to another play or look for a secondary target if they see the play is a non-starter.

That's why most QBs tend to hit their peak in years 4-5. They know what they're looking at.

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

The Easiest answer on why I dont think Hurts is a franchise QB;

 

Howie Roseman not only drafted him, but reached for him. 

That tells me all I need to know. 

Given your lack of expertise, just because you say it's a reach doesn't mean crap from shinola. And those "internet experts" - cut me a break, they're wrong about the draft every year, both who'll be drafted where and who'll will succeed.

Oh my god "He was coached to go through one read and take off". This place man.

4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

That's not a good enough reason to draft a QB in the 2nd round IMO

It's not any one thing. I know you were responding to one thing and you are right that by itself it's not good enough. It seems everyone's narrative is that Howie is just a dolt that on draft day decided to outsmart everyone by picking Hurts and throwing a wrench into the Eagles 2020 machinery. And Doug loved it. 

More likely at some point before the draft Howie and Doug were talking ... Doug had been thinking about how the Saints had incorporated Taysom HIll and so says to Howie ...

Doug: " I want a pony" (T Hill)

Howie: "Doug? You have a horse." (C Wentz)

Doug: " But I want a pony too. "

Howie: "You have Greg Ward - he used to be a pony"

Doug: "I want a bigger pony"

Howie: "I'll see what I can do - but the cap situation is bad - a polished well trained pony could be expensive "

Doug: "Yeah, I thought about that - there is this pony coming from Olahoma - he can do a lot of other things too. You should get a scouting report on him.

Howie: "I've seen it - you know we might have to use our 2nd round pick to make sure we get him - fans will be furious - you're horse probably won't like it"

Doug: " I WANT A PONY!"

21 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

It's absolutely pathetic.  I'm rooting for the kid and I really hope he has the chance to prove people like you wrong. 

 

7 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

How he was supposed to be a 4th rounder

Walter Football had him as the 7th ranked QB prospect.

CBS had him 8th.

SI 7th

Sporting News 6th

ESPN 7th

 

2 hours ago, eagle45 said:

I really don't think the Eagles are interested in drafting a qb round 1.

The Eagles have made extensive efforts to manipulate the rumor mill this offseason and in recent years.  I think they are doing the same thing with the QB whispers.  Stack the deck at QB in front of us so that the board at #6 has the most options of non-QB's...and so that teams trying to trade in front of us are doing it for QBs.  Also, if you enable the QB feeding frenzy, maybe it increases the price of a team looking to trade into #6 for one.

I firmly believe the Eagles are feeding those rumors.  They want to see through their controversial Hurts investment, at least for 2021.

At this point they are pretty much forced to have to do this.  They made the unprecedented pick of drafting a QB in R2 when they supposedly had their franchise guy they recently signed to a big contract and have now traded that big contract QB while taking on the biggest dead cap hit in NFL history.  And to draft another QB early in this draft would make them the laughing stock of the NFL.  They have to commit to Hurts for this upcoming season.  If he plays either mediocre or poorly then they can address the QB situation in the next draft.  But for 2021 he has to be the guy unless they want to look completely clueless and incompetent considering how things transpired. 

It could be that 3 QBs are already taken by the time it's our turn to pick at #6 and some team makes us a good enough offer to trade down and acquire more picks.  I'm curious to see how they draft this year.  Will they try and get Hurts as much help as possible?  Or since we have so many holes at most positions will they just go BPA trying to fill as many as they can?  And on a side note, what are the odds of Howie/Lowie making 'outsmarted myself because I'm the smartest guy in the room' picks with the (for now) 4 picks in the top 100?  One 'outsmarted myself' pick 2/5 odds?  Two 'outsmarted myself' picks 3/2 odds?  Anyone good at handicapping?

 

3 minutes ago, RLC said:

Low-end starters at QB is worth a 2nd rounder.

It was just dumb for us because we had a solid QB already on the roster.

That's just antithetical to the laws of nature in the NFL.

The worst thing any team could have, as their top guy, is a low end starting QB.  If that's all you've got, it's useless.  A low end starter is worse than worthless.

Now, a proven, low end starter...that holds value to a competitive team as a backup.  Maybe 2nd round.  Maybe 4th round.  Debate that however you like.  But that's not the lifecycle of NFL QB's.  No one is purpose-drafted to be a backup, unless it's in rounds 4-7.  The whole point of a low-end starter as backup is that they are proven insurance.  That comes from league experience.  Guys wash out as starters and get paid decent money to be top backups.  You can't skip that process, overdraft a flawed prospect in round 2, and just say you are getting value because he's a top backup/low-end starter.

 

5 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

It's not any one thing. I know you were responding to one thing and you are right that by itself it's not good enough. It seems everyone's narrative is that Howie is just a dolt that on draft day decided to outsmart everyone by picking Hurts and throwing a wrench into the Eagles 2020 machinery. And Doug loved it. 

More likely at some point before the draft Howie and Doug were talking ... Doug had been thinking about how the Saints had incorporated Taysom HIll and so says to Howie ...

Doug: " I want a pony" (T Hill)

Howie: "Doug? You have a horse." (C Wentz)

Doug: " But I want a pony too. "

Howie: "You have Greg Ward - he used to be a pony"

Doug: "I want a bigger pony"

Howie: "I'll see what I can do - but the cap situation is bad - a polished well trained pony could be expensive "

Doug: "Yeah, I thought about that - there is this pony coming from Olahoma - he can do a lot of other things too. You should get a scouting report on him.

Howie: "I've seen it - you know we might have to use our 2nd round pick to make sure we get him - fans will be furious - you're horse probably won't like it"

Doug: " I WANT A PONY!"

No matter how excited Doug was about the draft I still think it was a Howie pick

10 minutes ago, austinfan said:

We simply don't know what was being called those four games, if Hurts didn't practice with the ones, and was doing a lot of scout team duty (Sudfeld can't imitate a mobile QB), then he wasn't prepared to run the offense, especially since he had no exhibition games. Compare to Wentz as a rookie who practiced with the 1s and got a lot of preseason play. So far all we know the plays called for Hurts was a simplified scheme with him told to only make one or two looks and then take off.

"according to reports” Doug was already telling him during his second start to go through his progressions instead of pulling the ball down and running with it right away 

Actually I’m pretty sure it was the sideline reporter who said that 

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

No matter how excited Doug was about the draft I still think it was a Lowie pick

FYP

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

That's just antithetical to the laws of nature in the NFL.

The worst thing any team could have, as their top guy, is a low end starting QB.  If that's all you've got, it's useless.  A low end starter is worse than worthless.

QB Purgatory is real and needs to be avoided. No disagreement there.

However, teams like the Steelers with Ben or the Colts with Rivers last year should be taking those shots. 
- If the QB is bad, cut him and try again
- If the QB is "meh", you have a backup
- If the QB is good, he's the guy moving forward.

In our case, he's now options 2 & 3...and option #2 is terrifying because of purgatory. 

If Jalen Hurts ever becomes a high end backup (and I suspect he will), then it will be for another team.  He'll take his lumps and get his experience starting for us.  We'll realize he's not good enough, draft an expensive prospect, and part ways.

Then he'll take the best contract a team offers him to be their high end backup with starting experience.

That's how "high end, reliable backup" QB's are minted.  They don't come straight out of the draft.

Valuable?  Sure.  But we invested a 2nd round pick in someone else's future reliable backup QB.

15 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Sorry, it is exactly the same for Manning/Brady and Hurts. The read is the same; it's just that Manning and Brady are better and more practiced at it. If you know where you're going with the ball before the snap, it's one-read and it's a pre-snap read.

Manning and Brady made what throw they knew was going to be open and it wasn't always and so they moved to something else. If whatever read isn't open for Hurts he's not going through any other progressions (as a rule) he's taking off. It most certainly is different. 

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

We simply don't know what was being called those four games, if Hurts didn't practice with the ones, and was doing a lot of scout team duty (Sudfeld can't imitate a mobile QB), then he wasn't prepared to run the offense, especially since he had no exhibition games. Compare to Wentz as a rookie who practiced with the 1s and got a lot of preseason play. So far all we know the plays called for Hurts was a simplified scheme with him told to only make one or two looks and then take off.

It kind of begs the question of why would would Hurts be given a simplified scheme to make one or two reads before running.  Regardless of his performance, the reality is that a team will not generally be Super Bowl contender with a QB that can only make one or two looks then run.  

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

QB Purgatory is real and needs to be avoided. No disagreement there.

However, teams like the Steelers with Ben or the Colts with Rivers last year should be taking those shots. 
- If the QB is bad, cut him and try again
- If the QB is "meh", you have a backup
- If the QB is good, he's the guy moving forward.

In our case, he's now options 2 & 3...and option #2 is terrifying because of purgatory. 

I agree with that.  I actually really like the concept of drafting QB's in rounds 3-5 and then going according to the algorithm you stated.  2nd round is a bit of a QB no-man's land.  Starting in round 3?  Go for it.  I just take exception to Hurts being one of those lottery tickets.  A crude, inaccurate passer with middling arm talent and good mobility.  Either draft a methodical, hyper-accurate passer with middling arm talent or draft a big arm that needs coaching.  Why on earth invest in someone with neither?

1 minute ago, RLC said:

QB Purgatory is real and needs to be avoided. No disagreement there.

However, teams like the Steelers with Ben or the Colts with Rivers last year should be taking those shots. 
- If the QB is bad, cut him and try again
- If the QB is "meh", you have a backup
- If the QB is good, he's the guy moving forward.

In our case, he's now options 2 & 3...and option #2 is terrifying because of purgatory. 

The fear is the player is kept in the starting lineup because the brass or coaches think he’s much better than he actually is — such as Agholor and Mills

That is catastrophic if it happens at the QB position.  Howie has evaluated that’s where the team was with Wentz.  Hopefully if the same is true with Hurts that evaluation will be what is best for the team.

19 minutes ago, downundermike said:

We will be rooting for him when the games start, but we all don't see anything special, and are pointing it out.

It sure is ironic that you are bashing people for making up their minds after four games, when you made up you mind the second Wentz blew his ACL that the Eagles season was over.  Or that you made up your mind that RR was the second best WR on the Eagles roster before he got to the facility.  

I also find it ironic that he's bishing about what he perceives as 'hate' that some posters are throwing at Hurts when he's infamous for his hate of Foles.  Well, now he knows how most of us felt/feel about him.

And is bacarty2 tagging in for bobbywizdum? 

 

1 minute ago, greend said:

Manning and Brady made what throw they knew was going to be open and it wasn't always and so they moved to something else. If whatever read isn't open for Hurts he's not going through any other progressions (as a rule) he's taking off. It most certainly is different. 

We're at cross-purposes here. The read is the same. As I said earlier, Manning/Brady are better and more practiced at it. Hurts is a smart guy and no one has questioned that. He can learn. In the meantime he can take off and run, which he does very well.

Just because some of us think that Hurts isn't the guy doesn't mean that we aren't rooting for him to be the guy. I'm always gladly wrong when I take the negative on a player

14 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

No matter how excited Doug was about the draft I still think it was a Howie pick

Take the Howie hate blinders off. They're clouding your judgement. There is 0 chance that Howie comes up with that pick.