13 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Walter Football had him as the 7th ranked QB prospect.

CBS had him 8th.

SI 7th

Sporting News 6th

ESPN 7th

 

Daniel Jeremiah, who's rankings tend to reflect both his analysis and what he hears from teams, had him as his number 50 prospect.  https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-150-prospects-in-the-2020-nfl-draft-class-0ap3000001110012  He had him as the 5th best prospect behind Love.  I don't think it was unexpected that he was a 2nd round pick.  I think no one really saw the Eagles taking him.  

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

Daniel Jeremiah, who's rankings tend to reflect both his analysis and what he hears from teams, had him as his number 50 prospect.  https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-150-prospects-in-the-2020-nfl-draft-class-0ap3000001110012  He had him as the 5th best prospect behind Love.  I don't think it was unexpected that he was a 2nd round pick.  I think no one really saw the Eagles taking him.  

Drew Boylehart from "The Hudle Report" had him as a 2nd round pick too.

28 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

and here's what you continue to miss. I'm not looking at just those 4 games and his 51% completion. 

I'm looking at his college career. How he was benched. How he looked "pretty good" against the worst defenses in America in the Big 12. 

How he was supposed to be a 4th rounder

How we reached on him knowing/thinking he'd be a good backup. 

You can go read millions and millions of articles. Not just 4 games. 

 

AND AGAIN(I dont know what you dont Fing get) *IF YOU THINK HE IS, OR CAN BE A FRANCHISE QB* it will go down as one of the greatest picks EVER. 

AND AGAIN! EVERTIME YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH TO SUPPORT HURTS IT SHOWS YOU TRUST/LIKE/THINK Howie is a great GM. 

 

Why would it go down as one of the greatest picks ever? 

Why are you only capable of speaking in terms of hyperbole? 

3 minutes ago, greend said:

Just because some of us think that Hurts isn't the guy doesn't mean that we aren't rooting for him to be the guy. I'm always gladly wrong when I take the negative on a player

I'll be extremely happy if he turns out to be a star but I don't think he will

I'm not one to hate him if he ends up being good because I hated the pick.

He was thrown into a bad situation and is just trying to make it. Not his fault

Just now, Nivraga said:

Take the Howie hate blinders off. They're clouding you're judgement. There is 0 chance that Howie comes up with that pick. 

That's not true at all though. Howie is the one that makes the picks. Even if he's asked for something the final draw is him. Just like it will be this time. We know Howie is in control of the 53 because Nick said it

Howie can and may get influenced but the ultimate decision is his

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

So which picks were/wernt Howie?

Just so were clear - Howie is responsible - responsible - for all draft picks. He's the GM - he makes the decision. What we're talking about is how he arrived at that decision - and there is 0 chance that Howie, of his own accord, decided to take Hurts in the 2nd round. 

17 minutes ago, greend said:

Manning and Brady made what throw they knew was going to be open and it wasn't always and so they moved to something else. If whatever read isn't open for Hurts he's not going through any other progressions (as a rule) he's taking off. It most certainly is different. 

I am pretty sure he is being intellectually dishonest on purpose.  Saying that Manning made up his mind, and never went to his second and 3rd read is a joke.

When Brandon Stokley had 68 catches on 102 targets in 2004, I am pretty sure he was not the primary read on many, if any of those plays.

1 minute ago, Mike030270 said:

I'll be extremely happy if he turns out to be a star but I don't think he will

I'm not one to hate him if he ends up being good because I hated the pick.

He was thrown into a bad situation and is just trying to make it. Not his fault

That's not true at all though. Howie is the one that makes the picks. Even if he's asked for something the final draw is him. Just like it will be this time. We know Howie is in control of the 53 because Nick said it

Howie can and may get influenced but the ultimate decision is his

I agree - see my previous post.

2 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

This is the problem with this site(not you specifically)

In one breath we're told not to believe any rumors, than 2 posts that same person preaches us to listen to this rumor. 

"These idiot insiders never get it right" 3 posts later, Jeremiah got it right so

 

End of the day an overwhelming amount of insiders, scouts and GM's were shocked that the Eagles took him that early. 

I don't think it's a matter of hypocracy - I think it's a matter of you saying the "experts" all agreed that Hurts was a late 3rd to early 4th and you're being shown that not all the "experts" agreed with that assertion. 

Pretty fair evaluation.  Some positives and negatives.  Most of which my uneducated eyes agree with.

7 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

This is the problem with this site(not you specifically)

In one breath we're told not to believe any rumors, than 2 posts that same person preaches us to listen to this rumor. 

"These idiot insiders never get it right" 3 posts later, Jeremiah got it right so

 

End of the day an overwhelming amount of insiders, scouts and GM's were shocked that the Eagles took him that early. 

Brady was a comp pick at the end of round six. Montana went in the third round. Jeff George and Jared Goff were both first overall; Ryan Leaf was second overall. Insiders, scouts, and GMs are often as blind as the rest of us. I'll throw Russell Wilson in there too.

15 minutes ago, justrelax said:

We're at cross-purposes here. The read is the same. As I said earlier, Manning/Brady are better and more practiced at it. Hurts is a smart guy and no one has questioned that. He can learn. In the meantime he can take off and run, which he does very well.

I don't care if he's a smart guy.  Dan Marino has the IQ of a caveman and is one of the best in NFL history at the LOS and with progressions.  

Hurts has never been coached to play in that fashion.  It's take off and run.  In the meantime he can take off and run????????  That's the strategy for a QB we hope can be our starter and become the guy?  Come on, you realize how silly that sounds.  That's crap the Browns, Bengals, and Jacksonville used to do.

That's how he's been coached to play his whole career and if that's how you encourage him to play "in the meantime," that's what he'll continue to be.

The best thing we can say about Hurts: lots of guys drafted late who were seemingly bad prospects have turned into something special.  

That's exciting.  Great plan.  I'm sure it will work that way for us.

11 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

It kind of begs the question of why would would Hurts be given a simplified scheme to make one or two reads before running.  Regardless of his performance, the reality is that a team will not generally be Super Bowl contender with a QB that can only make one or two looks then run.  

I explained why, he simply didn't get to practice the offense, on a lot of teams, all the reps with the 1s go to the starting QB, and the backup does a lot of scout team work, given that the Eagles played a lot of mobile QBs, Sudfeld couldn't give the defense a good look, Hurts could. With no mini-camps, a limited TC, no exhibition games, how is Hurts supposed to get up to speed?

 

2 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Brady was a comp pick at the end of round six. Montana went in the third round. Jeff George and Jared Goff were both first overall; Ryan Leaf was second overall. Insiders, scouts, and GMs are as blind as the rest of us. I'll throw Russell Wilson in there too.

You mention Ryan Leaf which made me think of this as an excellent example of why it's important to distinguish between the neck up and the neck down. By all accounts Ryan Leaf - not Peyton Manning - was the better "physical" prospect. But Bill Polian has said once they interviewed both Leaf and Manning there was never any doubt that Manning was the pick. Manning had in spades what Leaf lacked from the neck up.

 

11 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Daniel Jeremiah, who's rankings tend to reflect both his analysis and what he hears from teams, had him as his number 50 prospect.  https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-150-prospects-in-the-2020-nfl-draft-class-0ap3000001110012  He had him as the 5th best prospect behind Love.  I don't think it was unexpected that he was a 2nd round pick.  I think no one really saw the Eagles taking him.  

I gave you multiple sites, you give me one guy.  So allow me to retort.

Had had D'Andre Swift as his 16th ranked prospect, went 35th, second RB drafted.

He had Russ Blacklock 19th, drafted 40th

Herbert 20th, drafted 6th.

AJ Epenesa 26th, drafted 54th

Jaylon Johnson 29th, drafted 50th

AJ Terrell 31st, drafted 16th

Zack Baun 34th, drafted 74th

Joshua Jones 39th, drafted 72nd

 

16 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

So which picks were/wernt Howie?

Come on, it's simple:

all the good ones were Roseman's;

all the bad ones were some one else's.

11 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I am pretty sure he is being intellectually dishonest on purpose.  Saying that Manning made up his mind, and never went to his second and 3rd read is a joke.

When Brandon Stokley had 68 catches on 102 targets in 2004, I am pretty sure he was not the primary read on many, if any of those plays.

From what I know of J.R. more likely we just aren't communicating properly.

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The best thing we can say about Hurts: lots of guys drafted late who were seemingly bad prospects have turned into something special.  

That's exciting.  Great plan.  I'm sure it will work that way for us.

I like the way you work backwards from your conclusion, although that's not the way logic works.

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

Missing the point. 

Brady was supposed to in that range

Montana was supposed to go in that range

George/Goff/Leaf were supposed to in that range

Hurts was supposed to go WAYYYY later. 

No, as several others have pointed out.

 

While not concretely measurable, the ability of a QB to quickly/effectively identify non-primary reads who are open may be one of the most critical traits shared by all modern HOF qb's.

That's how an offense becomes inevitable and unstoppable in critical situations.  Any weapon, including Calvin Johnson/Randy Moss/Jerry Rice can be stopped.  

This 1 read stuff is silly.  

2 minutes ago, justrelax said:

I like the way you work backwards from your conclusion, although that's not the way logic works.

Ah, the most pretentious poster on the EMB here to lecture on logic.

19 minutes ago, RLC said:

QB Purgatory is real and needs to be avoided. No disagreement there.

However, teams like the Steelers with Ben or the Colts with Rivers last year should be taking those shots. 
- If the QB is bad, cut him and try again
- If the QB is "meh", you have a backup
- If the QB is good, he's the guy moving forward.

In our case, he's now options 2 & 3...and option #2 is terrifying because of purgatory. 

The saving grace is that the rest of this team's roster is bad enough that a meh QB is going to put this team in the top 10 of the draft again.  They will also have something like 75 million in cap space heading into Free Agency in 2022.  So I think there is a light at the end of the tunnel in terms of the QB position.  What will leave them in purgatory is the team drafting a QB in the top 6 that isn't able to start the whole season or that looks worse than Hurts.  

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

I was speaking generalizations by the majority. 

I'm sure we can find some lunatic who thought Hurts should go in the first and some that said hurts shouldnt been drafted. 

Having him ranked 7th-ish out of the QB's was the general census.

7th in the QB room should of got you drafted in the mid 100's. I mean lets take a look..

CBS had him 8th...

5 was eason(122nd)

6 Undrafted Anthony Gordon

7 was Fromm 167th

8th was  hurts 53rd

9th was Perkins

SI had... Hurts 7. Fromm(167th) Hurts(53) Gordan(undrafted) 

 

Over and over again Hurts's draft position compared to ranking sticks out like a sore thumb

 

They aren't lunatics - nice dodge - you don't like the message so you attack the messenger. These are respected analysts which like all analysts get some right and some wrong. Over the years I've seen a lot of teams draft players well before the "experts" said they should - I've seen a lot of teams draft players well after the "experts" said they should. Sometimes the team is right and sometimes the "experts" are right. 

 

21 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I am pretty sure he is being intellectually dishonest on purpose.  Saying that Manning made up his mind, and never went to his second and 3rd read is a joke.

When Brandon Stokley had 68 catches on 102 targets in 2004, I am pretty sure he was not the primary read on many, if any of those plays.

Now who's being dishonest? I never said never. I also said 75-80%, which is a far cry from never.

Call me stupid, misguided, ignorant, whatever. Don't call me dishonest. FU.

At the same time I want to compliment you on the Pulp Fiction reference.

2 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

Sometimes the team is right and sometimes the "experts" are right. 

In the case of Hurts, the Eagles, and anyone who had him ranked top 50 will both be wrong.

5 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

Come on, it's simple:

all the good ones were Roseman's;

all the bad ones were some one else's.

That's funny - I don't know where this narrative keeps coming from. But Howie has always taken responsibility for the bad ones (as he should, he's the GM) and gives organizational credit for the good ones.