6 minutes ago, justrelax said:

I recently re-watched the NO game. On the first play, Hurts ran a read-option and kept the ball, the correct read. On the second he audibled out of the called play. On the third the pocket collapsed and he ran for the first. On the fourth they ran a simple dive play. On the fifth he had a two receiver pattern to the left sideline, picked the right guy, and hit him, which, BTW, was one of those passes he's supposedly not able to complete. Later, on 4th-and-2, he threw a TD pass to Jeffrey in the front corner of  the end zone (drat! another deep out) while getting crushed.

That showed me a lot in a single series.

I was simply describing the argument, but what ever.

2 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Translation

My rankings mean nothing when it comes to actual draft position 

The thing with over drafting and player valuation is that it's meaningless without the context of knowing how other teams view a player.  I do think Jeremiah wouldn't classify Hurts as a likely successful NFL QB without also believing he was worthy of a top 50 pick.  I also think having him ranked as a top 50 pick reflects what he knew about how some NFL teams looked at Hurts as a prospect. The reality is that Hurts, at this point, was only a worthwhile pick if he turns into a top 10 type starting QB.  Otherwise, he likely goes on to be a middling starter/back up for another team.  While he may have long-term staying power in the NFL, he won't be a good pick for the Eagles if he doesn't turn into their answer at QB.  They had to trade away Wentz, in part, due to the pick.  They will have to likely spend multiple top 100 draft picks in order to get an elite QB.  The lack of draft capital will lead to a long term dearth of talent that ultimately means the team will just be in a repeated cycle of mediocrity.  

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

It's laughable that you continue to ignore his college career. Ignore what happened in college. ignore what the majority of scouts said. ignore the majority of his rankings and keep going back "duuuuhhhh 4 games and heres my mount rushmore". 

 

 

What happened in college? He went to Oklahoma, as a transfer with no red shirt season, and performed as well as Murray and Mayfield, both who had red shirt seasons to learn the offense before they started.

And all that's ancient history now.

4 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

It's laughable that you continue to ignore his college career. Ignore what happened in college. ignore what the majority of scouts said. ignore the majority of his rankings and keep going back "duuuuhhhh 4 games and heres my mount rushmore". 

 

Ignore his college career won a national championship and was runner up in Heisman voting?  When I look at Hurts college career I see tremendous growth and progress as a passer from his freshman year to his senior year in Oklahoma. 

 

Again, are you completely incapable of having a mature conversation or do you feel required to jump to constant hyperbole of trying to put words in other people's mouths? 

 

"duuuuhhhh 4 games and heres my mount rushmore" - No one has said this. 

9 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

Hey Jackarse, I was making fun of Afan.

Now, buzz-off.

Then you had me confused with someone else - because the post you quoted was in response to me. And no - I won't buzz off - you should just put me on ignore now.

Just now, austinfan said:

What happened in college? He went to Oklahoma, as a transfer with no red shirt season, and performed as well as Murray and Mayfield, both who had red shirt seasons to learn the offense before they started.

And all that's ancient history now.

He did not.  Call it close.  Don't mislead.

7 minutes ago, rambo said:

We'll see.  Some guys never get it.  My opinion on Hurts is incomplete.  3.5 games (2 of which against top defenses), COVID offseason, no preseason games, etc...I'm willing to give him a full off season and regular season to see what he's made of.  If the FO thinks they need to draft a QB at 6 because Hurts isn't it, ok.  If he doesn't get it, then we'll more than likely be picking very high again next year and have a shot at a QB.

 

Yeah we won't know until we see him in year two here.  But the impression I get from him is that he is an extremely hard worker that is determined to put in the work and to be receptive to coaching so that he can improve as best as he can. There isn't anything from him or his demeanor that makes me believe he isn't capable of putting it together. 

7 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

I was simply describing the argument, but what ever.

Not picking on you, just belying the argument, which is unconvincing.

19 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Jeremiah was consistent with ESPN and probably more importantly consistent with how Hurts was drafted.  I think that says more about his overall value among other NFL teams.  CBS had him as a top 100 prospect which would make him a 4th rounder but categorized him as a potential starter.  He was their 5th prospect behind Eason.  https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/nfl-draft-2020-prospect-rankings-our-final-top-250-separates-the-four-tackles-and-three-elite-receivers/  I think the writer for CBS, Josh Edwards, doesn't appear to be a well connected NFL reporter.  I think ESPN's take is from Kiper and other sources.  

What about all these guys that he was drastically wrong on ??

43 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I gave you multiple sites, you give me one guy.  So allow me to retort.

Had had D'Andre Swift as his 16th ranked prospect, went 35th, second RB drafted.

He had Russ Blacklock 19th, drafted 40th

Herbert 20th, drafted 6th.

AJ Epenesa 26th, drafted 54th

Jaylon Johnson 29th, drafted 50th

AJ Terrell 31st, drafted 16th

Zack Baun 34th, drafted 74th

Joshua Jones 39th, drafted 72nd

 

 

5 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Once again that comparison is AWFUL

Leaf was the best QB in college. Drafted such and flopped. 

Tebow was drafted late in the first, should of been drafted in the 4th, was a flop

Hurts was drafted mid 2nd, should of been drafted in the 4th. 

 

Tebow is and remains the best comparison for Hurts.  Yes, Hurts is a more fluid passer.

Both were run first QB's with great competitive drive, big winners in college, and excellent athleticism.  Both overdrafted as a result, despite mediocre to sub-par ingredients as pure passers.

And the fact remains that Hurts rush yards:pass yards ratio in his 4 starts remains the highest the NFL has seen in 20 years besides Tebow.  

I do think Hurts projects better as a passer, but the parallels are there.

17 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Hurts should change his jersey number. That's my #analysis.

I mean he could go with 12.  

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

*IF* *HE* *WAS* *THAT* *GOOD* *HE* WOULD* *NOT* *OF* *WENT* *IN** THE*2ND* *ROUND* *AND* *ACTUALLY* *RANKED* * TO* *GO* * IN * * THE ** 3RD* * 

 

Oh alright, my bad.  I forgot that mock drafts are the end all be all of players pro careers.  That's why we never see first round busts or guys drafted after the first round go onto be good/great professional football players. 

 

 

58 minutes ago, rambo said:

Pretty fair evaluation.  Some positives and negatives.  Most of which my uneducated eyes agree with.

This somewhat proves the point to me that he's looking to run when there are other options. Good video like you said. 

10 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

He did not.  Call it close.  Don't mislead.

Murray had the most yards and TDs. Hurts was second, Mayfield was third. To your point, Hurts threw for the fewest of the three.

I don't really mind if Hurts was projected to go later.  I don't like that I have no idea what, exactly, we are supposed to hang out collective hat on here.

Arm talent?  No.  Adequate.

Frame?  No. 

Refinement, progressions, accuracy?  No.

Athleticism and running?  Yep, but not on the Vick/Randal/Jackson/Murray level.  

So we are just banking on "we don't know" and "here's a highlight video of a couple nice passes" and "he was productive in one of the most artificially QB friendly offensive systems in NCAA history."  

Look, I'm fine with giving him the keys to an already lost 2021 season.  But you need to go into everything eyes wide open.  Jaylen Hurts is not the guy you'd hand pick as your lottery ticket at QB.

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don't really mind if Hurts was projected to go later.  I don't like that I have no idea what, exactly, we are supposed to hang out collective hat on here.

Arm talent?  No.  Adequate.

Frame?  No. 

Refinement, progressions, accuracy?  No.

Athleticism and running?  Yep, but not on the Vick/Randal/Jackson/Murray level.  

So we are just banking on "we don't know" and "here's a highlight video of a couple nice passes" and "he was productive in one of the most artificially QB friendly offensive systems in NCAA history."  

Look, I'm fine with giving him the keys to an already lost 2021 season.  But you need to go into everything eyes wide open.  Jaylen Hurts is not the guy you'd hand pick as your lottery ticket at QB.

While I'm more bearish than bullish on Hurts, I will say it does seem that he is putting in work to improve himself. There is a long list of athletes with lesser natural talents that can overcome it with hard work and training. And there's just as many uber talented athletes that have failed out because they refused to put in any more work than they thought necessary. 

3 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Murray had the most yards and TDs. Hurts was second, Mayfield was third. To your point, Hurts threw for the fewest of the three.

Of the 3, Hurts threw for the least yards, fewest TD's, and lowest QB rating...all 3 categories with a not-insignificant gap.  

And for the record, I would not want Mayfield or Murray as my QB moving forward.

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don't really mind if Hurts was projected to go later.  I don't like that I have no idea what, exactly, we are supposed to hang out collective hat on here.

Arm talent?  No.  Adequate.

Frame?  No. 

Refinement, progressions, accuracy?  No.

Athleticism and running?  Yep, but not on the Vick/Randal/Jackson/Murray level.  

So we are just banking on "we don't know" and "here's a highlight video of a couple nice passes" and "he was productive in one of the most artificially QB friendly offensive systems in NCAA history."  

Look, I'm fine with giving him the keys to an already lost 2021 season.  But you need to go into everything eyes wide open.  Jaylen Hurts is not the guy you'd hand pick as your lottery ticket at QB.

He has all the necessary physical tools and he has work ethic and has shown /continues to show improvement.

The question is where is his ceiling? Most of the scouting reports I've read - despite where they projected him to go saw him as an eventual starter.  I believe Sirianni at this point will have an opinion of his ceiling and I think we'll get sense of that opinion with the upcoming draft.

9 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Your comparison is wrong again. No ones talking about busts. 

I dont think Hurts is a flop either. He's going to be a very good backup some where. 

It's very seldom do they get a franchise QB wrong. 

Off the top of my head, you have BRady, Russ... maybe Dak(although the talent was there it was more off field issues) 

 

 

Ohhhh, alright.  Thanks for clarifying.  So while mock drafts are the end all be all for how players will turn out as professional athletes, we cannot factor in the existence of the inevitable busts in these mock drafts and how they were wrong. 

 

This is especially important with your new proclamation that mock drafts rarely get franchise QBs wrong.  It's a good thing we have this clarified so we can toss out all the 1st round QB busts so they don't at all hurt this argument of mock drafts being the end all be all. 

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

While I'm more bearish than bullish on Hurts, I will say it does seem that he is putting in work to improve himself. There is a long list of athletes with lesser natural talents that can overcome it with hard work and training. And there's just as many uber talented athletes that have failed out because they refused to put in any more work than they thought necessary. 

I want to add - with reference someone else's Tebow comparison. Tebow failed because his throwing motion was so slow. I have a faster release. 

Just now, Nivraga said:

I want to add - with reference someone else's Tebow comparison. Tebow failed because his throwing motion was so slow. I have a faster release. 

Yes that's true. Hurts release is much quicker.

33 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Does anyone remember McNabb as a rookie? Or almost any rookie QB who didn't play in a pro style offense in college?

It takes a couple years to learn how to play QB in the NFL, many never get it. Mahomes sat his first season and learned.

Some teams put in a simplified offense when they start a spread rookie, let him do what he did in college, then add to it as he gets experience.

Like I said, check back in January 2022. Either he learns or he doesn't, but it won't be for lack of effort.

Well who said it would be from lack of effort? At this point I'm more interested on does he have the potential to not just read and run not how hard he'll try not to.

I'm not even arguing that Hurts will be a failure.  Do I think he will be?  Absolutely.  Do I know it?  Absolutely not.  

QB is the trickiest position to project.  Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady. You all know the names of 1st overall busts.

You don't need Kyle Boller's arm to be an elite passer and you don't need to be 6'5".  But I'd rather have those things than not.

The real issue is that I want someone who is first and foremost a PASSER.  Someone who leans on their arm to use every possible opportunity to move the ball forward to every possible target...and to do so efficiently and accurately.  That's what the HOF guys have in common.  You don't need to be 6'5" with a cannon to do that.  SURE, maybe Hurts can be that kind of passer...even at a HOF level.  "We don't know yet."  But he sure as hell isn't off to a good start.  He's been a run first QB his whole life, and was tragically mis-coached by Doug into being an H-back for half the year and then a tuck n' run QB through 4 starts.  

That's the guy you want to hitch your wagon to as a passer?  I'll play along because he's all we have, but again, eyes need to be wide open here.

7 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

He has all the necessary physical tools and he has work ethic and has shown /continues to show improvement.

The question is where is his ceiling? Most of the scouting reports I've read - despite where they projected him to go saw him as an eventual starter.  I believe Sirianni at this point will have an opinion of his ceiling and I think we'll get sense of that opinion with the upcoming draft.

He has all the bare minimum physical tools, which can be said for nearly every drafted player at every position.  Enough arm, enough height.  His running ability is his only above average trait so far.

31 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

Then you had me confused with someone else - because the post you quoted was in response to me. And no - I won't buzz off - you should just put me on ignore now.

Did I quote you? No, I didn't think so. I was conversing with Bacarty2 - making fun of Afan.