31 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

It's shocking how fast it came.  It's not shocking at all that it happened. 

Howie burned it down at Mach speed through a series of failed acquisitions. 

That’s comforting. 

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Can we at least be honest about how Howie got us to this point? It's a magical combination of both poor drafting and 2017 deluding Howie into believing he had found a market inefficiency he could exploit. We've all covered the catastrophic drafting (yes, afan, it has been horrific), so let's focus on the later. One of the things I actually like about Howie is he tries to seek out value; things like not paying big money for RBs or LBs makes sense because the value of those guys over a replacement player isn't huge and the positions are dependent on other areas of the team (the lines) to be successful. But 2017 had Howie believe he has discovered a new market inefficiency and value -- "older" players that were being discarded by their prior teams as they approached late 20s/early 30s. 

In 2017 these signings worked fantastically. Alshon was 27 but somewhat damaged goods -- he signed a one year deal for only $14 million before we handed him an extension later in the year. That original deal was fantastic. Then there was Torrey Smith -- one year older than Alshon, he basically signed a one year, $5 million deal. Blount signed a one year, $1.25mm incentive laden deal at 30. Patrick Robinson. Jay Ajayi. Nigel Bradham (signed in 2016). Every singing was a guy in his late 20s with some hair that Howie got on the "cheap," and they ALL WORKED. 

So Howie thought he found the new way to win -- sign "older" guys who are being undervalued by the market. So we get Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson, Malik Jackson, etc. And then Howie finds out why guys like that don't get big money, because you can't count on them to stay healthy. Howie thought he was being smarter than everyone else and implementing a new plan; he didn't realize that we just got lucky as hell in 2017 as guys stayed healthy and had career years. 

Howie's own ego of thinking he had found some great market inefficiency, combined with a complete lack of young talent, has gotten us to this point.

I don't think so, the first group of signings was similar to what Belichick does every year.

The second group was weird, some driven by injury, Jerrigan to Malik, Wallace to DeSean. DeSean may have been influenced by Lurie due to allowing Chip to ride him out of town. Jeffrey seemed to be a SB hangover, never should have extended him - his best seasons were 23-24, at 29 he was an injury prone #2 WR paid like a #1.

Wallace was like the first group, 1 year deal for a veteran who should have had a year or two left in the tank.

I think Howie learned his lesson, you only give money to FAs in their prime years, guys coming off their first contract, signing their second at 26 or 27 years old. The rest you sign to one or two year deals at an older player discount, never give real money to players over 30 unless they're elite OL or run stopping DTs (pass rushers and WRs last peak year is around 28, BG is a freak).

21 minutes ago, austinfan said:

They should be major players in the UDFA market, obviously lot's of opportunities to make the roster.

Well at least we’ve got that going for us.  NFL, watch out, stay out of our way in the UDFA market.  

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Well at least we’ve got that going for us.  NFL, watch out, stay out of our way in the UDFA market.  

Every UDFA you hit on is like a middle round draft pick. How many OL drafted the third day played as well as Herbig as a rookie? How many LBs as well as Edwards?

Finding 2-3 of these "trash heap" guys each year is like "hamburger helper" to the draft.

5 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

We know rock bottom has to hit before we can start to come back.  It's nice to know we are closer to the bottom of the decline then just starting out.......right?  I hope....

If you look at the 49ers trajectory after losing the Super Bowl to Baltimore, they went:

12-4 lost in NFCCG

8-8

5-11 - So it appears we are right about at this spot, if we follow their same path. Rock bottom appears on the horizon, at least!

2-14

6-10

4-12

13-3

6-10

So, to sum it up then. Howie, Hurts: staying. Haters: leaving? Or are you just going to continue to do the work of the Dallas trolls without actually classifying yourselves as such?

39 minutes ago, downundermike said:

You do not get those savings until June 1, so it does not help you get under the cap March 17th, and you can't spend them until June 1.  Free agents are all signed by then.

I understand when they get that cap space.  I think there will still be options for them and certainly they can talk to free agents and give them a sense of what they will offer when they have space.  

8 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

If you look at the 49ers trajectory after losing the Super Bowl to Baltimore, they went:

12-4 lost in NFCCG

8-8

5-11 - So it appears we are right about at this spot, if we follow their same path. Rock bottom appears on the horizon, at least!

2-14

6-10

4-12

13-3

6-10

Well maybe Howie gets fired at the 2-14 mark.  

5 minutes ago, macgregor said:

So, to sum it up then. Howie, Hurts: staying. Haters: leaving? Or are you just going to continue to do the work of the Dallas trolls without actually classifying yourselves as one?

It's like you never have met Eagles fans.  

This graphic is doing everything possible to talk me out of Trevor Lawrence.

Regarding the "We had an elite head coach and QB, and now we have nothing" narrative...

Doug's success wasn't sustainable. You're absolutely fooling yourself if you think otherwise. He presided over 4 straight injury plagued seasons. He didn't hold players accountable, and actually seemed to do the opposite. Have a great play? Bench. Fumble? Keep him in the game, he's gotta get his confidence back. 

Didn't hold his coaches accountable either. Say what you want about Howie Roseman, and there are many negative things to say, but you don't get to this point with the lack of young players with good coaching. You just don't.

Doug had one season with an all-world QB cocoon and undervalued veteran players. He was a glorified offensive coordinator and hype man. It worked, and 2017 was amazing. Doesn't mean it works in 2021, and the likely injury pattern and lack of young player development would have continued debilitating this team.

Carson's 2017 was not sustainable either. Historically great 3rd down and RZ success. Rock solid players at every skill position, a top 5 OL, top 5 running game. Since 2017, he's a below .500 player who is a middling performer (middling in 2018/19, awful in 2020) based on advanced metrics. His only saving graces have been his TD/INT ratio, some splash plays that show off his physical talent, and some "what ifs."

Both Doug and Carson flamed out in Philly. A HC/QB pair flaming out as quickly as those 2 did isn't common, but both showed the signs as early as 2018.

9 minutes ago, RLC said:

This graphic is doing everything possible to talk me out of Trevor Lawrence.

The problem Lawrence will have is the success of most (if not all) QBs coming into the NFL is dependent on the environment they’re drafted into.  JAX is a crap show organization whose only saving grace is some pretty good drafts which infused young talent — especially on defense — which led to their 12-4 season in 2017.

That has all been burnt down now, and there is minimal talent in JAX around Lawrence.

38 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Well at least we’ve got that going for us.  NFL, watch out, stay out of our way in the UDFA market.  

UDFA Factory

37 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Every UDFA you hit on is like a middle round draft pick. How many OL drafted the third day played as well as Herbig as a rookie? How many LBs as well as Edwards?

Finding 2-3 of these "trash heap" guys each year is like "hamburger helper" to the draft.

And it is not the way to build a team.  It is how you make up for continually failing at drafting.

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

And it is not the way to build a team.  It is how you make up for continually failing at drafting.

Afan is correct....Scoring on a 2-3 UDFA's are now an integral part of roster building for depth. This year will be particularly interesting with the lack of combine...people are going to fall through the cracks and be available. The Eagles are going to need to find those gems.

Just now, aptosbird said:

Afan is correct....Scoring on a 2-3 UDFA's are now an integral part of roster building for depth. This year will be particularly interesting with the lack of combine...people are going to fall through the cracks and be available. The Eagles are going to need to find those gems.

Just another mind trick a lot of fans play with themselves. Pick up a solid contributor/role player type in the 7th round? Great draft pick. Pick up the same player as a UDFA? Doesn't count.

4 minutes ago, aptosbird said:

Afan is correct....Scoring on a 2-3 UDFA's are now an integral part of roster building for depth. This year will be particularly interesting with the lack of combine...people are going to fall through the cracks and be available. The Eagles are going to need to find those gems.

Problem is the Eagles are not finding them for depth.  They are having to find them to make up for constant draft failures.

You devotion to the cult of Howie is really remarkable.  He is one of the 5 worse GM's in the NFL, and without getting lucky in 2017, he would easily be the worst.

UDFAs starting on playoff teams (excluding those like Barrett who were acquired as FAs):

Buffalo:  Boettger G, Wallace CB

Indy:  Pascal WR, Doyle TE, Moore CB

Tenn:  Blasingame FB,

PIT:  Villenuva T (SFA), Feiler T (SFA), Spillane LB

BALT:  Ricard FB (PB), Sekura C, Fort (SFA)

KC:  Wylie T, Ward CB

GB:  Tonvan TE, Patrick G, Barnes LB

SEA:  Ford NT, Mayowa DE

LA:  Reeder LB, Hill (SFA)

CLE, NO, TB - none

SFA are UDFAs claimed in waivers.

This excludes all the top backups/ST guys who fill out rosters.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, aptosbird said:

Afan is correct....Scoring on a 2-3 UDFA's are now an integral part of roster building for depth. This year will be particularly interesting with the lack of combine...people are going to fall through the cracks and be available. The Eagles are going to need to find those gems.

‘Gems’ may be a strong word here.

Just now, downundermike said:

Problem is the Eagles are not finding them for depth.  They are having to find them to make up for constant draft failures.

You devotion to the cult of Howie is really remarkable.  He is one of the 5 worse GM's in the NFL, and without getting lucky in 2017, he would easily be the worst.

My opinion of Howie goes back years ago as a person who should never be given a free pass. I am unhappy with the FO's leadership as anyone and I have expressed my concern over failed drafts for the past 4 years....I saw this as an end result, but I don't need to drop ITYS' to prove myself right....so make up whatever narrative you want....

I believe everyone has a right to their opinion in here...including afan I have no one on ignore....but I am tired of the negativity

 

1 hour ago, Desertbirds said:

People do recover from injuries. (Except when you are old like me, it seems.)

 

When you reach the end of a season you are banged up.  You are not fresh. 

1 hour ago, Bacarty2 said:

Also had a 55 in week 17

My point is with as much as we dropped back and as much as we passed, those numbers are TERRIBLE 

 

Maybe you need to step back and stop thinking you have a players career figured out based on their rookie season. 

19 minutes ago, RLC said:

This graphic is doing everything possible to talk me out of Trevor Lawrence.

Lawrence is a 3 year starter vs Darnolds 2, Darnold with 57tds and 22 Ints, Lawrence was 90tds and 17Ints.  Plus Darnold played in the ACC, (Gods conference), lol.   Seriously though that extra year will mean a lot in the NFL. 
 Darnold is already on his 3rd head coach which is a disaster for any young QB, plus Adam Gase is Kotitie Jr. 

 Lawrence has Meyer, who may not realize like most college coaches don’t, that the NFL is completely different, it’s way more QB driven,  a lot more injuries with much smaller rosters, and NFL defenses, even the bad ones are way better than anything Meyer saw at Ohio St and Florida. His shotgun to run spread, with chuck and duck as Buddy would say won’t last forever and neither will Lawrence when they go up against a team like TB with an aggressive defensive coordinator. 

5 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Maybe you need to step back and stop thinking you have a players career figured out based on their rookie season. 

Coming from the guy who declared RR the Eagles second best receiver 2 seconds after the news of his signing broke.

Coming from the guy who said the Eagles season was over the second Carson Wentz tore his ACL.

You have no room to talk about anyone making decisions with limited information.