48 minutes ago, RLC said:

This graphic is doing everything possible to talk me out of Trevor Lawrence.

He's like a more athletic Sam Bradford. 

23 minutes ago, austinfan said:

UDFAs starting on playoff teams (excluding those like Barrett who were acquired as FAs):

 

Doesn't change the point that Howie needs to hit on these to cover up his poor drafting.

I could take those same teams, and show all the impact draft picks they have made, which would be embarrassing compared to Howie Roseman.

Corporation parts ways with two employees whose childish non communication antics hurt corporate culture and an enabling lower manager who failed at teaching new talent.  Abandons concept with retiring manager.  (Might cause a slight downturn in stock before a rebound).  Moving on.

Last year when @Iggles_Phan, I and a few others touted Jefferson, we kept hearing low floor and low ceiling.   I mentioned that Jefferson was my #3 WR because next to Jeudy, he was the most NFL ready and I constantly heard the refrain about seeking players with higher ceilings.  That is a hit or miss proposition in the NFL.  There can be spectacular results and equally spectacular failures.   Well, Howie must have been reading some of those posts because he took a swing for the fences approach. 

Let’s look at history through a different lens.  Reagor reaction after draft was he might be a high ceiling guy.  But he wasn’t their yet.  In a very truncated camp he injured his shoulder plus Carson goes out with some injury at the end of camp for a week.  Then Reagor injures his thumb.  Originally I expect that the Eagles thought with DJax’s core injury behind him, they would have him back so they could ease Reagor along.   But with the OL in shambles and the rookie thrown in right after the thumb, the whole high ceiling thought process went out the window.   He is still the same receiver he was out of TCU.  Very few WRs bust out their first year.  This year he may well get a full offseason.  Before we label him a bust, let’s see what a full offseason offers.

Hightower had two seasons at a higher level in college.  Yes he is fast but he projects best as a slot WR in my view.  He was thrown into the Z way too early.  He is a lower floor, higher ceiling guy.  Let’s see what a second season holds before writing him off.  Body catcher but can hand catch better than Quez, which is why he went first.  

Quez is fast.  Like many fast receivers, he comes out of college with his speed being what got him open.  He needed polish. He is also a body catcher.  He may never have great snatch hands and that hurts a bit in getting open.  Speed alone doesn’t get players open in the NFL.  Need feints, jukes, change of speed etc.  DJax had all of those.  Hightower actually has a decent change of speed and Reagor can.  Those can be taught.   He may never be a starting Z but he may be a decent spot player/backup.

JJAW. Drafted to be an X then trained for everything. That is nuts.  Decent straight line speed but agility is bad. That is kind of true of all the WRs mentioned above.  But agility can be learned.  The old adage is you can’t teach speed and that is true.  Hand/eye coordination (hands) is also difficult but can be improved.  Remember McNabb’s dog toy practice?  Agility. Joe Brady’s catching from behind a door, hand/eye.  (Moorehead does that using a tackling dummy.) Now, Jeffery has amazing agility and decent speed.  He can one step stop so the second step is a turn. JJAW does a two to three step stop and a one to two step turn. That kills being open.  Agility also helps in crispness of routes.  It is why Michael Thomas with 4.58:speed gets open.  What level that JJAW can reach determines if he is on the street after camp.  Hopefully Moorehead has agility drills for all his players.   Alshon was put back in because of his agility and you could see a little of it but his speed is gone. Without agility, JJAW will flop as the Hback many think he should transition to. JJAW is the opposite of Reagor, Hightower and Watkins, he is a lower ceiling guy   

Speaking of agility, that brings to mind Fulgham.  People seem to sight of how green he is.  The rumors about tardiness and laziness concern me.  His spider is like Michael Thomas but his hands and technique aren’t. They could be if he will put in the work. He is probably a better slot than X 

Greg Ward has three years experience.  Mailata is anointed as the second coming of Ogden with three years experience but Ward is denigrated.  Reminds me of the reactions to Jason Avant and Greg Lewis. All they did was catch for first downs on third down. One receiver seemed to be able to get open and catch balls from both quarterbacks.  I am happy with him as a number four WR.  But he is a step up from a JAG.

The Eagles HC, PGC both have experience developing WRs. Let’s see if the "high ceilings” develop for them before writing them off due to 2020.  Anyone that thought Reagor, due to the two injuries, or Hightower and Watkins were going to excel to a high ceiling in 2020 was misguided. 

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

They should be major players in the UDFA market, obviously lot's of opportunities to make the roster.

I don’t see this as a great UDFA year but I agree.  

Report: NFL requests $3.5 billion per year for MNF; ESPN offers $2.4 billion.

7 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Report: NFL requests $3.5 billion per year for MNF; ESPN offers $2.4 billion.

Well if ESPN wants to lose Monday Night Football, that's on them.  Would not hurt my feelings, because they have not had an announcer worth a dime in years.

Find a new network, and get Kevin Harlan to call the games.

What’s a billion between friends 

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

Every UDFA you hit on is like a middle round draft pick. How many OL drafted the third day played as well as Herbig as a rookie? How many LBs as well as Edwards?

Finding 2-3 of these "trash heap" guys each year is like "hamburger helper" to the draft.

Herbig was a second year player and a Combine invite the year before.  Edwards has great instincts and I saw him as a fifth round choice. He is slow and that is what drug him down, just like Herbig’s 5.4 forty.  People lost track of Herbig’s footwork because he was a doughboy.  I commented last TC that Herbig looked in a lot better shape.

Last year, we added Williams.  I would argue that he was playing as well as Malik Jackson at the end of the year.  I was thinking that there is Grasmanis before his injuries.  I had a third day valuation on him  

By the end of the season, Juriga, who was a priority targeted UDFA was playing our sixth OL in six OL sets.  May be the next in a long line of Eagles UDFA centers or my flop.  

52 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Regarding the "We had an elite head coach and QB, and now we have nothing" narrative...

Doug's success wasn't sustainable. You're absolutely fooling yourself if you think otherwise. He presided over 4 straight injury plagued seasons. He didn't hold players accountable, and actually seemed to do the opposite. Have a great play? Bench. Fumble? Keep him in the game, he's gotta get his confidence back. 

Didn't hold his coaches accountable either. Say what you want about Howie Roseman, and there are many negative things to say, but you don't get to this point with the lack of young players with good coaching. You just don't.

Doug had one season with an all-world QB cocoon and undervalued veteran players. He was a glorified offensive coordinator and hype man. It worked, and 2017 was amazing. Doesn't mean it works in 2021, and the likely injury pattern and lack of young player development would have continued debilitating this team.

Carson's 2017 was not sustainable either. Historically great 3rd down and RZ success. Rock solid players at every skill position, a top 5 OL, top 5 running game. Since 2017, he's a below .500 player who is a middling performer (middling in 2018/19, awful in 2020) based on advanced metrics. His only saving graces have been his TD/INT ratio, some splash plays that show off his physical talent, and some "what ifs."

Both Doug and Carson flamed out in Philly. A HC/QB pair flaming out as quickly as those 2 did isn't common, but both showed the signs as early as 2018.

Their success certainly wasn't sustainable when the GM repeatedly fails to add talented players to the roster. That is the biggest problem with the team.    

Doug had one bad season in 5.  He had 3 OK seasons and one superb season as a head coach.  Football is ultimately a team sport that relies on the talent of the players.  Doug had his faults but it's not like he was a bad coach.  He was capable of having a team play at a high level and earned the trust of veteran players.  He had a defense with practice squad or worse LB and defensive backs. He had practice squad WRs, broken down veterans and underwhelming rookies.  Howie has no ability to appropriately evaluate these positions.  He kept trying to fix them with band aids and wishful thinking draft picks.  

Carson has had one bad season.  He's otherwise played anywhere from a top 15 to top 5 QB in the League.  His bad season was historically bad and he may never return to the 2017 form.  Again, it's hard to evaluate Carson given bottom 5 offensive line this season and practice squad group of receivers he has had.  Put Wentz on a team like Tampa or Seattle and he doesn't look nearly as bad.  

This isn't a team on the cusp of a playoff run but for the Head Coach and QB.  This is a bottom of the League roster.   It really doesn't matter who their Head Coach and QB are because there's not enough talent to win.  

 

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

The problem is Amazon is going to make huge push which blows because it makes it incredible hard to watch 2 games or flip back and forth to anything during commercials.

I have Amazon prime, so I would be all for it.  Usually I am at the bar for Monday night ( FFL ) so surfing during commercials is not an issue.

1 minute ago, Original Sin said:

What’s a billion between friends 

It is a lot of money in a time when ratings are dropping....the NFL really needs to an objective evaluation of its product before jacking up the prices...

2 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Their success certainly wasn't sustainable when the GM repeatedly fails to add talented players to the roster. That is the biggest problem with the team.   

Yep.  We could go through a long list of draft failures, but if the Eagles had drafted the following 3 players, we would be a light years different team.

Kamara over Sidney Jones

Metcalf over JJAWful

Jefferson over Reagor

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

Well at least we’ve got that going for us.  NFL, watch out, stay out of our way in the UDFA market.  

Sometimes I really wonder if you watch how NFL rosters are put together, how many HOF inductees were later that round eight (older times) or UDFAs.  

1 hour ago, NCiggles said:

Well maybe Howie gets fired at the 2-14 mark.  

No.  At that point, Afan and Lurie will remind us that Howie has more experience with tear downs and rebuilds than any GM in NFL history, so he is clearly the guy to lead the next one.

41 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Coming from the guy who declared RR the Eagles second best receiver 2 seconds after the news of his signing broke.

Coming from the guy who said the Eagles season was over the second Carson Wentz tore his ACL.

You have no room to talk about anyone making decisions with limited information.

 

Seems like you're completely broken again.  Back to mostly worthless posts from you. 

Sign me up.

 

Whoa. Impressive stats. 

38 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

He's like a more athletic Sam Bradford. 

Sam Bradford was also a worthy #1 overall pick.  Didn't work out, but I'd take a Sam Bradford prospect #6 overall and turn the keys over to him without hesitation.

6 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Sometimes I really wonder if you watch how NFL rosters are put together, how many HOF inductees were later that round eight (older times) or UDFAs.  

I am aware.  It's also silly to say that the Eagles are uniquely set up to corner the UDFA market amidst the rest of the carnage on this roster.  You guys talk about how first round picks turning into mere contributors is a good outcome and then flip to the other side and say that we should expect production out of UDFAs.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

Sam Bradford was also a worthy #1 overall pick.  Didn't work out, but I'd take a Sam Bradford prospect #6 overall and turn the keys over to him without hesitation.

Bradford was a worthy #1 overall pick - his issue was an inability to stay healthy. Injuries can ruin any career.

7 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Seems like you're completely broken again.  Back to mostly worthless posts from you. 

Not even close.  Pointing out that you are talking about people making small sample size judgements, when you made the two worst no sample judgements in the history of this message board.

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Yep.  We could go through a long list of draft failures, but if the Eagles had drafted the following 3 players, we would be a light years different team.

Kamara over Sidney Jones

Metcalf over JJAWful

Jefferson over Reagor

Of course 31 teams passed over Metcalf twice.

Kamara went #67, here's how tough drafting really is, the guys after #43 who've had good careers, #48 Mixon, #55 Tomlinson DT, #57 Cunningham LB, #62 Simon-Schuster WR, #63 Dawkins G, #64 Moton G, #65 Ogunjobi DT, #67 Kamara RB, #69 Kupp WR. So only 2 of the 13 players taken after Jones were solid starters.

Jefferson would have been better than Reagor, but he wouldn't have saved 2020 (and we probably never pick up Fulgham).

Mac Jones is quickly turning into my favorite QB in this draft.

When I hear that a WR is the most "pro ready" guy in the draft...I think that mean's he's slowish, unexplosive, runs great routes, has reliable hands, and does all the little things right.  It means less coaching up to do and less upside.  Meh.

When I hear that a QB is the most "pro ready" guy in the draft...what does that mean?  It means he's the best freaking passer in the draft.  HOF and MVP qbs don't all have mobility.  They don't all have rifles.  They are elite passers.  See the field, quick release, distribute.  They generally don't become HOF'ers and win SB's by making plays on their own.  They distribute to their great weapons.

Mac Jones is the guy who fits that profile.  He had great weapons at Alabama, sure.  What did he do with them?  He had, statistically, the best passing season of anyone in NCAA history.

Give the guy weapons, let him sit in the pocket, and watch your offense become elite.  Or, over invest in a more athletic, more celebrated guy with a cannon to run around playing highlight-reel hero ball as your offense scores an NFL average points per game.

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Of course 31 teams passed over Metcalf twice.

Kamara went #67, here's how tough drafting really is, the guys after #43 who've had good careers, #48 Mixon, #55 Tomlinson DT, #57 Cunningham LB, #62 Simon-Schuster WR, #63 Dawkins G, #64 Moton G, #65 Ogunjobi DT, #67 Kamara RB, #69 Kupp WR. So only 2 of the 13 players taken after Jones were solid starters.

Jefferson would have been better than Reagor, but he wouldn't have saved 2020 (and we probably never pick up Fulgham).

Best reason I've seen so far to justify Jefferson being here.  Fulgham sucks and a total fluke 4 game stretch now deludes everyone into wasting a year on his 2021 failure at X WR.

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I am aware.  It's also silly to say that the Eagles are uniquely set up to corner the UDFA market amidst the rest of the carnage on this roster.  You guys talk about how first round picks turning into mere contributors is a good outcome and then flip to the other side and say that we should expect production out of UDFAs.

Every player taken or signed is a bit of a crap shoot.  I could care less if a first rounder is a contributor and a later round choice is a HOF player.  Selection level only matters with cap depletion and a fifth year possibility for a first rounder.  What I care about is production on our team.  It is important to hit on as many acquisitions as possible. Not ever player needs to be a all pro.