2 hours ago, ManuManu said:

To those who get the salary cap much better than I do, how the hell will the Eagles get under the cap if the money saved from Alshon and Malik doesn’t kick in until June 1?

Get your popcorn ready.   

 

I don't see it as a viable option.  I think they are going to be over and take the penalty.   The real question is how the NFL decides to punish them...

 

Here's the rule: The NFL's cap is a hard cap that the teams have to stay under at all times, and the salary floor is also a hard floor. Penalties for violating or circumventing the cap regulations include fines of up to $5 million for each violation, cancellation of contracts and/or loss of draft picks.

How do they define the 'violation'?   Is Wentz' contract, for example, the only violation... meaning that they could get to within $34M of the cap figure... and then be in violation of only 1 contract... take the $5M slap on the wrist and not be in salary cap purgatory forever?   If so... then that's a quick 'out'.   But, it would take the NFL being very benevolent  and just hit them with the monetary penalty.    

History shows a benevolence for past 'indiscretions'.   
https://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2012/05/23/the-nfls-bizarre-salary-cap-penalties-for-the-dallas-cowboys-and-the-washington-redskins/?sh=449b510a708a

In the 2012 penalties to Washington and Dallas, they were fined, but lost no picks.   And if the NFL salary cap were to go to where it was projected to go, without the Covid reduction... it could be argued that the Eagles would be able to be compliant without as much fancy footwork.   So, I think the goal is to get the number down to within Wentz' number of the current cap, and then throw themselves on the mercy of the court, so to speak, and argue that they are only over by 1 contract, which they have since 'canceled' so to speak.   And so a mere $5M fine might be all they really get hit with.    And Lowie will get away with mismanagement for just a little pocket change to a billionaire.  (To put it into 9 to 5 Joe terms... it would be caught speeding in a construction zone, but instead getting the points on the license, perhaps a suspended license and ridiculously high fines, the cop puts it down as an obstructed view ticket or some other lesser offense, and can be dealt with quick and easy.)   And since Lurie has been an owner for a relatively long time, and never once had an issue like this in the past, I think his 'first offense' status will serve to protect the Eagles from greater repercussions.   (But this is all speculation on my part.   I really don't see how they can actually get under the number without those contracts freeing up money immediately.)

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Get your popcorn ready.   

 

I don't see it as a viable option.  I think they are going to be over and take the penalty.   The real question is how the NFL decides to punish them...

 

Here's the rule: The NFL's cap is a hard cap that the teams have to stay under at all times, and the salary floor is also a hard floor. Penalties for violating or circumventing the cap regulations include fines of up to $5 million for each violation, cancellation of contracts and/or loss of draft picks.

How do they define the 'violation'?   Is Wentz' contract, for example, the only violation... meaning that they could get to within $34M of the cap figure... and then be in violation of only 1 contract... take the $5M slap on the wrist and not be in salary cap purgatory forever?   If so... then that's a quick 'out'.   But, it would take the NFL being very benevolent  and just hit them with the monetary penalty.    

History shows a benevolence for past 'indiscretions'.   
https://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2012/05/23/the-nfls-bizarre-salary-cap-penalties-for-the-dallas-cowboys-and-the-washington-redskins/?sh=449b510a708a

In the 2012 penalties to Washington and Dallas, they were fined, but lost no picks.   And if the NFL salary cap were to go to where it was projected to go, without the Covid reduction... it could be argued that the Eagles would be able to be compliant without as much fancy footwork.   So, I think the goal is to get the number down to within Wentz' number of the current cap, and then throw themselves on the mercy of the court, so to speak, and argue that they are only over by 1 contract, which they have since 'canceled' so to speak.   And so a mere $5M fine might be all they really get hit with.    And Lowie will get away with mismanagement for just a little pocket change to a billionaire.  (To put it into 9 to 5 Joe terms... it would be caught speeding in a construction zone, but instead getting the points on the license, perhaps a suspended license and ridiculously high fines, the cop puts it down as an obstructed view ticket or some other lesser offense, and can be dealt with quick and easy.)   And since Lurie has been an owner for a relatively long time, and never once had an issue like this in the past, I think his 'first offense' status will serve to protect the Eagles from greater repercussions.   (But this is all speculation on my part.   I really don't see how they can actually get under the number without those contracts freeing up money immediately.)

They can't though. You cannot go over the cap and just take a penalty. You will have to get compliant at some point otherwise they wont be able to sign anyone including their rookie draft picks. Dallas and Washington didn't get penalized for just being over, it's because they did improper things in the uncapped year of 2011 when the new CBA was being negotiated. The second part of your post would be pretty unprecedented. I don't see how they would bend the rules just for the Eagles and not any other team.

2 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

1.  Howie Roseman has this all worked out

2.  You’re not going to like it

I absolutely think this is correct.   Howie knows what special rules/exemptions the league is going to put in place for non-compliant teams as well.

1 hour ago, Don Corleone said:

Exactly right, Howie, once again left himself kicking the can down the road.

Can I kick Howie down the road?  Just a little?

The $180M was the minimum, the actual cap may be set at what was expected before COVID, i.e. leaving room for teams caught by the failure of the cap to escalate.

"This is not the final Salary Cap for the 2021 League Year, which will be set following review of final 2020 revenue figures and other audit and accounting adjustments. This agreement simply increases the minimum 2021 Salary Cap by $5 million per club, from $175 million to $180 million.

Or they may take a page from the NHL and allow one or two contracts to be paid off and taken off the books.

1 hour ago, justrelax said:

One scenario I can see is moving back a few slots and drafting Slater, who could slide in at LG when Isaac moves to C. Stoutland should have a good sense of where Dillard is, and Lane, and Brooks and what he can expect from them after the injury cluster F of 2020. If they should draft Slater and Davis, that would be an indicator that one or more of those guys will not be 100%.

This depends entirely on Sewell going before #6. If he's there, grab him.

I would absolutely love to get Slater and Davis.   I had Davis as my dream pick in Round 1 before the knee injury.  The fact that he'd be a possible target in Round 2 is just too tempting.  I would be happy to trade away Brooks and Lane if they could come away with Slater, Davis to put in the mix with Mailata, Dillard and Seumalo.   Those 5 could be the starting OL in 2022 and for a good while beyond.  And if Dillard stumbles, you'd have Slater to move outside (either to LT or RT, depending on what Stoutland sees as the best combination).

Howie Roseman:

1 hour ago, Don Corleone said:

I'm not bending over backwards to do anything. And where am I adding Ertz back to the roster? I included him in trade/cut category to get the Eagles under the cap.

 

Read more, post less.

psst...     

1 hour ago, Don Corleone said:

So, if you go buy Zangaro's numbers, then add Ertz, Barnett and Goodwin, the Eagles would only be $5.264M over the cap.

Barnett will probably restructure, no?

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

A 30+ yr old coming DT off a season-ending injury? Sounds like a Roseman special.

In all seriousness if he'll take a 1-year vet min deal I wouldn't hate it. We don't have a 3rd DT right now and you could do worse than him.

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Can I kick Howie down the road?  Just a little?

No, you must kick him the whole way down the road

19 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

They can't though. You cannot go over the cap and just take a penalty. You will have to get compliant at some point otherwise they wont be able to sign anyone including their rookie draft picks. Dallas and Washington didn't get penalized for just being over, it's because they did improper things in the uncapped year of 2011 when the new CBA was being negotiated. The second part of your post would be pretty unprecedented. I don't see how they would bend the rules just for the Eagles and not any other team.

Who said it would just be the Eagles?   The Saints are in worse shape than the Eagles, even with Brees out of the picture.

But, they could get compliant easily with a few other moves... like trading/extending Slay, Hargrave... Trading/cutting Ertz... extending Barnett/Seumalo, etc. They can also push a bunch of Cox's $15M salary for 2021, into a signing bonus... freeing up about $10-$12M... depending on how they choose to do it. 

 

I just don't see them able to do it before the first day of the league year... because a trade isn't official until then anyway.   So, once some of these trades are official, the team would be under the cap, same with the freeing up of money with June 1 moves.... the money isn't available until June 1, but the team would be 'under' the cap eventually.

For all of you posting mocks, especially @toughfighter83, please don't post formats that you have to scroll for 5 minutes to get past.

5 minutes ago, greend said:

No, you must kick him the whole way down the road

Gladly.  🤩

3 hours ago, ManuManu said:

To those who get the salary cap much better than I do, how the hell will the Eagles get under the cap if the money saved from Alshon and Malik doesn’t kick in until June 1?

Here is my two posts about it from Monday.  The only real options they have is to kick the can down the road with a combination of Cox, Graham, Slay, Lane and Brooks.

You could trade Slay and gain 5.2 million, leaving 9.7 million dead cap hit.

You could trade Hargrave, gain 4.6 million, leaving 9.8 million dead cap hit

In any of those scenarios, you then have to pay the replacement, so it is not just a strict cap saving that you can spend somewhere else.

The next 3 weeks should be very interesting, as Howie decimates the roster to clean up his mess.

On 2/22/2021 at 3:29 PM, downundermike said:

It is really the only option available.  They already restructured Malik Jackson and Alshon Jeffrey to make them post June 1 cuts. Those savings do not help the Eagles get under the cap to start the league year.

Then cutting / trading Ertz, Barnett and Goodwin, Eagles are still 26.2 million over the cap. 

The only remaining players with a cap savings of over 1 million you could cut are

Cox, 21 million dead, 2 million saved, Maddox, 1.4 million saved.

I honestly have no idea how Howie can fix this without crippling future years.  He really has made a mess.

 

On 2/22/2021 at 3:37 PM, downundermike said:

Those 4 players, here is the best case scenario of cut or trade.  Remember in all these scenarios, the guys below the top 51 cut off then move up and add to the cap.

Cox, 21.034 million dead, 2.065 million in savings

Graham, no go, you replace his 716K saved with a 780K contract.

Lane, no go, adds 11.5 million to his cap number in a trade, worse if cut.

Brooks, 12.25 million dead, 1.52 million in savings.

 

Nope, see above.

 

As Howie will just kick the can... here's a quick and easy plan to get cap compliant, right after the official start of the league year.

Moves:
Extend Cox - added 2 years, spread out $12,000,000 signing bonus over 4 years (he already had empty years on the end).
Extend Graham - added 2 years, he's going to be a big hit in 2022 anyway, so might as well lean into it and keep an all-time Eagle great to retire with the team.
Trade Slay - never should have been traded for.  Bite the bullet and get whatever you can back.  Free up the space he'll take in 2022 in the process.
Trade Ertz - It just won't work here any more... frees up money 
Extend Hargrave - if we are going to keep him, at least make the money work for you, instead of against you.
Extend Barnett - free up money for this year, easily and he's still relatively young.  
Cut Goodwin, Jeffery, Jackson... and there's $8M for rookie contracts.

34 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Get your popcorn ready.   

 

I don't see it as a viable option.  I think they are going to be over and take the penalty.   The real question is how the NFL decides to punish them...

 

Here's the rule: The NFL's cap is a hard cap that the teams have to stay under at all times, and the salary floor is also a hard floor. Penalties for violating or circumventing the cap regulations include fines of up to $5 million for each violation, cancellation of contracts and/or loss of draft picks.

How do they define the 'violation'?   Is Wentz' contract, for example, the only violation... meaning that they could get to within $34M of the cap figure... and then be in violation of only 1 contract... take the $5M slap on the wrist and not be in salary cap purgatory forever?   If so... then that's a quick 'out'.   But, it would take the NFL being very benevolent  and just hit them with the monetary penalty.    

History shows a benevolence for past 'indiscretions'.   
https://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2012/05/23/the-nfls-bizarre-salary-cap-penalties-for-the-dallas-cowboys-and-the-washington-redskins/?sh=449b510a708a

In the 2012 penalties to Washington and Dallas, they were fined, but lost no picks.   And if the NFL salary cap were to go to where it was projected to go, without the Covid reduction... it could be argued that the Eagles would be able to be compliant without as much fancy footwork.   So, I think the goal is to get the number down to within Wentz' number of the current cap, and then throw themselves on the mercy of the court, so to speak, and argue that they are only over by 1 contract, which they have since 'canceled' so to speak.   And so a mere $5M fine might be all they really get hit with.    And Lowie will get away with mismanagement for just a little pocket change to a billionaire.  (To put it into 9 to 5 Joe terms... it would be caught speeding in a construction zone, but instead getting the points on the license, perhaps a suspended license and ridiculously high fines, the cop puts it down as an obstructed view ticket or some other lesser offense, and can be dealt with quick and easy.)   And since Lurie has been an owner for a relatively long time, and never once had an issue like this in the past, I think his 'first offense' status will serve to protect the Eagles from greater repercussions.   (But this is all speculation on my part.   I really don't see how they can actually get under the number without those contracts freeing up money immediately.)

There's no way they are going to get penalized.  I mean they will need to restructure or release $50 million in salary obligations.  The only release that helps them prior to the start of the League year is Ertz.  I think they will be able to find the space between restructuring Cox, Graham, Lane, Slay, Brooks, Kelce and extending Barnett.  I think 2022 isn't looking great for signings either but they will still have more than $100 million in 2023. 

8 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Here is my two posts about it from Monday.  The only real options they have is to kick the can down the road with a combination of Cox, Graham, Slay, Lane and Brooks.

You could trade Slay and gain 5.2 million, leaving 9.7 million dead cap hit.

You could trade Hargrave, gain 4.6 million, leaving 9.8 million dead cap hit

In any of those scenarios, you then have to pay the replacement, so it is not just a strict cap saving that you can spend somewhere else.

The next 3 weeks should be very interesting, as Howie decimates the roster to clean up his mess.

 

 

Trades are not completed before they need to be cap compliant.  

"decimate the roster" of a 4-11-1 team, heaven forbid!

The day of reckoning was always coming, and really who will they miss other than Graham (if he's moved) from the 2020 team?

Brooks, Lane and Cox are going nowhere, and the rest, who cares?

And they have lots of room in 2022, you don't want them going crazy in free agency, so how else do you spend $100+ million?

Add a couple free agents in 2022, a few more in 2023, and start signing extensions in 2024. By that point, all the dead money is off the books.

Reason you don't want $100+ in free money is the cap minimum, that forces you to give out bad contracts.

24 minutes ago, greend said:

Barnett will probably restructure, no?

Believe he's on his 5th year option.

Just now, Don Corleone said:

Believe he's on his 5th year option.

Yes.

Extension is the most likely option.

Also Barnett's 5th year option becomes guaranteed at the start of the league year so if they are going to do something it will likely happen soon. I doubt they are going to let him stay at that cap number this year given the overall cap situation.

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

"decimate the roster" of a 4-11-1 team, heaven forbid!

The day of reckoning was always coming, and really who will they miss other than Graham (if he's moved) from the 2020 team?

Brooks, Lane and Cox are going nowhere, and the rest, who cares?

And they have lots of room in 2022, you don't want them going crazy in free agency, so how else do you spend $100+ million?

Add a couple free agents in 2022, a few more in 2023, and start signing extensions in 2024. By that point, all the dead money is off the books.

Reason you don't want $100+ is free money is the cap minimum, that forces you to give out bad contracts.

The day of reckoning was not always coming.   It was precipitated by horrible mismanagement of the draft, free agency, trades, and contracts... by none other than Howie Roseman.  

And moving Graham doesn't free up any space for 2021... 

 

And Howie doesn't need any excuse for giving out bad contracts, he's been doing that for 3 years straight.

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

 

 

And Howie doesn't need any excuse for giving out bad contracts, he's been doing that for 3 years straight.

Yeah, but if he wasn't smart enough to give out bad contracts, the cap minimum would force us to give out new bad contracts.  So...you're welcome.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

Yeah, but if he wasn't smart enough to give out bad contracts, the cap minimum would force us to give out new bad contracts.  So...you're welcome.

Or... crazy thought, he could give out good contracts to good players.   Just a thought.