10 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I'll never begrudge players trying to maximize their contracts. They have such short lifespans where they can make big bucks, they should absolutely try to earn every last penny they can. Fans like to think the players are altruistic and care about the fanbase or even winning trophies. But look at even JJ Watt. He took more money than reportedly was offered by Green Bay who I would think is a much closer contender than Arizona. 

It's up to management to be the bad cop, and draw that line in the sand saying we will only pay you this much, take it or leave it. I don't even fault Peters last year for what he did, Howie should've had the balls to tell him no, we aren't paying you more to switch from G to T. But I don't blame JP one second for asking for more money. 

I think Dak should ask for every last penny he can get out of the Cowboys. If they pay him, I think that's good for us as I think he's a good QB, but not good enough. If he leaves and does in fact go to Washington, again, I think he's good but not good enough to win it all. The problem there is if he goes to Washington, Jerry might rampage enough to bring in Watson or Wilson, who I think can be good enough (obviously Wilson is). So it's a weird situation from our perspective. 

IMO, the best scenario for us is Dak signing a huge contract with the Cowboys and playing average football after that ugly injury over the next several years. 

Another good alternative is that he leaves to a non-NFCE team, while the Cowboys get nothing in return. But this is highly unlikely. 

I'm scared that they will tag him and then trade him to Seattle or Houston. I wouldn't like to see Watson or Wilson in our division. 

6 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Falcons weren't a rebuilding team when ehy selected Julio.  They made a huge trade to jump in the draft for him. They were already a playoff team. I addressed Evans in another post I just made. 

 

 

So people give you guys who have done it but you just shoot it down because you change the goal posts of your argument. You said "Over the past 20 years I can only think of one instance where a WR taken by a team in the top 10 actually worked out as a building block cornerstone player for that franchise (Fitzgerald)” Didn’t say were they in a rebuild or a playoff team already. Evans, jones, fitz and megatron became building block cornerstone players for that franchise. So what you just did was BS and changing your narrative  
 

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

Well we just threw out 3 examples right away. You could even argue Megatron, and he was only ruined because Detroit ruins HOF careers. 

Can you name any TEs drafted in the top 10 in the last 20 years that would qualify? 

 

You're throwing out irrelevant examples to my point.  My point is that WR is not a position that you select at the top of a draft if you are trying to build/rebuild.  Calvin Johnson is an excellent example of this.  They never won a playoff game with Johnson as a HoF talent.  They wasted 3 top 5 1dt round licks in a row on WR. That isn't how you build a team.  It's how you build a fantasy team but not a winning football team.  It is not a foundational piece. 

 

I'm not disputing that drafting a TE in the top 10 is not a smart move.  I'm pointing out that WR is the same in that vein.  Although as the NFL has showed us over the past decade almost all of the teams playing in the Super Bowl feature a top end TE. But just like WR I don't think it is a position that you start with when building a team. 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

So people give you guys who have done it but you just shoot it down because you change the goal posts of your argument. You said "Over the past 20 years I can only think of one instance where a WR taken by a team in the top 10 actually worked out as a building block cornerstone player for that franchise (Fitzgerald)” Didn’t say were they in a rebuild or a playoff team already. Evans, jones, fitz and megatron became building block cornerstone players for that franchise. So what you just did was BS and changing your narrative  
 

 

I didn't change the goal posts. Read my post before you come at me like a tool bag claiming I moved the goalposts. 

 

Quote

 

What is the logic of a TE being taken in the top 10 is bad but a WR taken in the top 10 isn't? 

Over the past 20 years I can only think of one instance where a WR taken by a team in the top 10 actually worked out as a building block cornerstone player for that franchise (Fitzgerald).  

 

 

A playoff team is not rebuilding.  They would not be needing a building block cornerstone player to build the franchise up around because they are already a playoff team that is adding what they perceive as a missing piece. 

1 minute ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

You're throwing out irrelevant examples to my point.  My point is that WR is not a position that you select at the top of a draft if you are trying to build/rebuild.  Calvin Johnson is an excellent example of this.  They never won a playoff game with Johnson as a HoF talent.  They wasted 3 top 5 1dt round licks in a row on WR. That isn't how you build a team.  It's how you build a fantasy team but not a winning football team.  It is not a foundational piece. 

 

I'm not disputing that drafting a TE in the top 10 is not a smart move.  I'm pointing out that WR is the same in that vein.  Although as the NFL has showed us over the past decade almost all of the teams playing in the Super Bowl feature a top end TE. But just like WR I don't think it is a position that you start with when building a team. 

So what position do you suggest we take? We have decent talent and a little bit of depth on the o-line, and with Stout coaching, I don't really feel like we need to reach on a prospect at 6 (If Sewell is there, great). You might be able to land Wyatt Davis in the 2nd. Otherwise, barring injuries, our o-line is set as Dillard/Seumalo/Kelce/Brooks/Lane, with Mailata, Herbig and Driscoll as nice depth. If you want to trade down and try and get Slater in the teens, sure I'm on board with that.

Defensive End? There's nobody worth it in the top 10. Corner? Maybe Farley, but again, I'd try and trade down to nab him. 

So what other position then would you be looking at, staying at pick 6?

15 hours ago, austinfan said:

If you're Lurie, you either stick with the guy who rebuilt the team twice, his first rebuild earned two 10-6 seasons before Chip imploded the team, his second rebuild won a SB and two more playoff appearances before imploding - or you take a chance on an unknown or a retread.

Exactly what "football guy" is out there with a better than 50/50 chance of running a successful rebuild?

The top GMs aren't going anywhere, so you're hiring their assistants, of course, that's what Howie did when he hired Douglas. So Douglas has had two years in NY, how are the Jets doing?

It took Licht 7 years to rebuild TB, think Eagle fans are that patient?

but the Eagles have "5 people who can be general managers right now in the organization"!

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

So what position do you suggest we take? We have decent talent and a little bit of depth on the o-line, and with Stout coaching, I don't really feel like we need to reach on a prospect at 6 (If Sewell is there, great). You might be able to land Wyatt Davis in the 2nd. Otherwise, barring injuries, our o-line is set as Dillard/Seumalo/Kelce/Brooks/Lane, with Mailata, Herbig and Driscoll as nice depth. If you want to trade down and try and get Slater in the teens, sure I'm on board with that.

Defensive End? There's nobody worth it in the top 10. Corner? Maybe Farley, but again, I'd try and trade down to nab him. 

So what other position then would you be looking at, staying at pick 6?

 

Our offensive line is old and banged up.  If a premiere offensive lineman is there at 6 that would be a much wiser pick. 

QB of course if someone drops to 6 that they view as a potential franchise QB. 

And yes of course defense. This defense has no young cornerstone players.  They have Cox, Graham and Slay that are all over 30 and nearing the end of their roads.  The defense is a ticking time bomb of complete disaster.  I'm a huge fan of Farley.  They should strongly consider looking at defense in the 1st round.  

 

8 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

I didn't change the goal posts. Read my post before you come at me like a tool bag claiming I moved the goalposts. 

 

 

A playoff team is not rebuilding.  They would not be needing a building block cornerstone player to build the franchise up around because they are already a playoff team that is adding what they perceive as a missing piece. 

Lmao. i literally posted exactly what you wrote and quoted it. Yet we need to re-read what you wrote?

Over the past 20 years I can only think of one instance where a WR taken by a team in the top 10 actually worked out as a building block cornerstone player for that franchise (Fitzgerald)

copied and pasted what you wrote. Nowhere in there does it say well all these other factors are in play that now you are discussing after the fact. that’s the definition of moving the goal posts of an argument 

Yet we are all toolbags.....

see you are trying to get yourself banned again by name calling. Good road to go down. 

9 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

I agree. Rebuilds should stick to LT/QB/Ungodly DE/LB. 

But theres teams in the top 10 this year(and ever year) that consider themselves a legitimate playoff contender. 

Those teams shouldn't pick TE/RB, but they should absolutely look into a WR. 

 

I don't see any teams in the top 10 this year that can look at themselves as legitimate playoff contenders where they are a WR away from kaing the playoffs. 

Maybe the Dolphins since they are only in the top 10 due to a trade but even then they are in the top 10 because they traded their young LT.  They have a young QB who had a major injury in college, would be wise for them to get a premiere LT for him than a WR. 

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Lmao. i literally posted exactly what you wrote and quoted it. Yet we need to re-read what you wrote?

Over the past 20 years I can only think of one instance where a WR taken by a team in the top 10 actually worked out as a building block cornerstone player for that franchise (Fitzgerald)

copied and paste did what you wrote. Nowhere in there does it say well all these other factors are in play that now you are discussing after the fact  that’s the definition of moving the goal posts of an argument 

Yet we are all toolbags.....

see you are trying to get yourself banned again by name calling. Good road to go down. 

 

What exactly do you think I was referring to when I said a building block cornerstone player? 

 

Could it be a cornerstone player that a team picking in the top 10 is drafting to build their team around? Nooo, it couldn't possibly mean that. 

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Our offensive line is old and banged up.  If a premiere offensive lineman is there at 6 that would be a much wiser pick. 

QB of course if someone drops to 6 that they view as a potential franchise QB. 

And yes of course defense. This defense has no young cornerstone players.  They have Cox, Graham and Slay that are all over 30 and nearing the end of their roads.  The defense is a ticking time bomb of complete disaster.  I'm a huge fan of Farley.  They should strongly consider looking at defense in the 1st round.  

 

Sewell is the only O-lineman worth the 6th pick. If he's gone (and very likely he is), what then?

QB is ridiculous, if they draft one at 6.....I would find it very difficult to watch this team next year.

Defense is fine. Parsons is probably worth it at 6. Farley I could be convinced, but outside of that, nah. As mentioned by other posters, you can rebuild a defense much faster than you can an offense. 

I happen to like our current crop of WRs and would like to see them develop. But if Chase is sitting there and Sewell is gone, I have no problem with him being the selection. 

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

QB is ridiculous, if they draft one at 6.....I would find it very difficult to watch this team next year.

Why would QB be ridiculous? 

4 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Sewell is the only O-lineman worth the 6th pick. If he's gone (and very likely he is), what then?

QB is ridiculous, if they draft one at 6.....I would find it very difficult to watch this team next year.

Defense is fine. Parsons is probably worth it at 6. Farley I could be convinced, but outside of that, nah. As mentioned by other posters, you can rebuild a defense much faster than you can an offense. 

I happen to like our current crop of WRs and would like to see them develop. But if Chase is sitting there and Sewell is gone, I have no problem with him being the selection. 

 

 

How is QB ridiculous? It's the most important position in the game.  I would like to see Hurts in year two but if a guy is there at 6 they feel is going to be a franchise top end QB then it is nonsensical to pass him up. 

 

And yeah, so easy to build a defense.  We haven't had a great defense since 2008.  The only reason our defense was good enough to win a Super Bowl was due to the blue chip talent that we had built around on defense the past decade in Cox and Graham. WE HAVE NO YOUNG BLUE CHIP TALENT ON DEFENSE!  This is a major major problem for the future of this team.  It is far more essential than a WR.  

 

This #6 pick is of dire importance for this team to hit on a cornerstone player that you can build a side of the ball around. You don't build a team around a WR.  

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Why would QB be ridiculous? 

They made their bed by taking Hurts in the 2nd last year. Now they have to lay in it. If they turn around and draft a QB at 6, it will show they have no idea what they hell they are doing. There's so many other positions of need on this team, that I think you have to actually see what Hurts is with the new staff. Instead of sinking another high pick into a QB, and just like that, we have ANOTHER QB controversy on our hands. 

1 minute ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

I don't see any teams in the top 10 this year that can look at themselves as legitimate playoff contenders where they are a WR away from kaing the playoffs. 

Maybe the Dolphins since they are only in the top 10 due to a trade but even then they are in the top 10 because they traded their young LT.  They have a young QB who had a major injury in college, would be wise for them to get a premiere LT for him than a WR. 

 

What exactly do you think I was referring to when I said a building block cornerstone player? 

 

I would consider Julio Jones and Mike Evans cornerstone type players for their franchises. No where in your original quote does it say they have to be in a complete rebuild or you couldn’t have Tom Brady as a quarterback to be a cornerstone player. Those are moving the goal post of your original comment.

You don’t think Julio Jones is a cornerstone player for the Atlanta Falcons? Because I look at Matt Ryan’s numbers without Julio Jones, they aren’t nearly as good as they are with Julio Jones. So in my opinion he is a cornerstone type player for the Falcons and major part of why they got to a Super Bowl.

you wanna argue Mike Evans is not a cornerstone type player? Fine. However he’s been a top 10wide receiver over the last five years. Since 2016 Mike Evans is 4th in receiving yards, 3rd in touchdown receptions and 11th in receptions (https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/who-has-the-most-receiving-yards-last-5-years). And I would argue one of the big reasons Tom Brady wanted to go to Tampa Bay was because they had the weapons of Mike Evans and Chris Godwin. So you’re gonna tell me he gets negated by Tom Brady but he was one of the reasons Tom Brady went to Tampa Bay

4 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

How is QB ridiculous? It's the most important position in the game.  I would like to see Hurts in year two but if a guy is there at 6 they feel is going to be a franchise top end QB then it is nonsensical to pass him up. 

 

And yeah, so easy to build a defense.  We haven't had a great defense since 2008.  The only reason our defense was good enough to win a Super Bowl was due to the blue chip talent that we had built around on defense the past decade in Cox and Graham. WE HAVE NO YOUNG BLUE CHIP TALENT ON DEFENSE!  This is a major major problem for the future of this team.  It is far more essential than a WR.  

 

This #6 pick is of dire importance for this team to hit on a cornerstone player that you can build a side of the ball around. You don't build a team around a WR.  

Without looking it up, I'm pretty sure Schwartz defenses were good as per DVOA rankings. I'll ask @ManuManu for help here, I seem to remember him posting the stats. There's not really such a thing as shut down defense anymore, you can easily win with average. 

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

They made their bed by taking Hurts in the 2nd last year. Now they have to lay in it. If they turn around and draft a QB at 6, it will show they have no idea what they hell they are doing. There's so many other positions of need on this team, that I think you have to actually see what Hurts is with the new staff. Instead of sinking another high pick into a QB, and just like that, we have ANOTHER QB controversy on our hands. 

But they don't have any idea what they are doing

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

They made their bed by taking Hurts in the 2nd last year. Now they have to lay in it. If they turn around and draft a QB at 6, it will show they have no idea what they hell they are doing. There's so many other positions of need on this team, that I think you have to actually see what Hurts is with the new staff. Instead of sinking another high pick into a QB, and just like that, we have ANOTHER QB controversy on our hands. 

I don’t think you take one just to take one but if there is a guy you think can be the QB for 10+ years you pull the trigger. From all reports they never thought Hurts would be the guy, so they can’t afford to compound a mistake if that’s how the feel. 
 

I think regardless what they do, this last year has already proven they have no idea what the hell they are doing. 

8 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Our offensive line is old and banged up.  If a premiere offensive lineman is there at 6 that would be a much wiser pick. 

QB of course if someone drops to 6 that they view as a potential franchise QB. 

And yes of course defense. This defense has no young cornerstone players.  They have Cox, Graham and Slay that are all over 30 and nearing the end of their roads.  The defense is a ticking time bomb of complete disaster.  I'm a huge fan of Farley.  They should strongly consider looking at defense in the 1st round.  

 

I have no interest in using a top 10 pick on a player who’s going to sit on the bench, or relegate Seumalo to the bench.  Dillard is an example of a first round pick who sat on the bench for a year behind Peters, then tore his bicep and missed his second year — now people proclaim him a bust because he hasn’t seen the field enough.  If Kelce retires then a case can be made to draft a G/C in the first or second round.  Slater is a OT that would move over to guard, and Seumalo to C.  For me it would be a very hard sell to draft an OT high, unless you can move Dillard to JAX for their second round pick (#33), which is doubtful.  OT is just not a big need right now.

If WR or Pitts is the pick at #6 they would need to be the alpha dog of the offense to justify the pick, which means 80 catches, 1300 yards-type of production almost every year.  If the Eagles believe Chase or Pitts can be that type of player then they will make them the selection.  
 

I don’t see any defensive players worth a top 10 pick in this draft.

3 minutes ago, greend said:

But they don't have any idea what they are doing

On the surface, I agree. I am very intrigued into what exactly Howie will do this offseason. He has shown in the past an ability to flip a roster around, and get out of a bad situation (post Chip). This situation is a bit different, but it's a very compelling off season to me. That could all be trashed if they take a QB at 6 though (unless they somehow trade Hurts as well). 

7 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

They made their bed by taking Hurts in the 2nd last year. Now they have to lay in it. If they turn around and draft a QB at 6, it will show they have no idea what they hell they are doing. There's so many other positions of need on this team, that I think you have to actually see what Hurts is with the new staff. Instead of sinking another high pick into a QB, and just like that, we have ANOTHER QB controversy on our hands. 

I don’t think building a winning franchise has a lot to do with laying in the mess you’ve made.  If Hurts is evaluated as a good #2 QB or bottom tier starter, you absolutely put drafting a franchise QB on the table 

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

I don’t think you take one just to take one but if there is a guy you think can be the QB for 10+ years you pull the trigger. From all reports they never thought Hurts would be the guy, so they can’t afford to compound a mistake if that’s how the feel. 
 

I think regardless what they do, this last year has already proven they have no idea what the hell they are doing. 

Where was this reported? All I’ve heard them say is they didn’t want to miss out like they did with russell Wilson and they needed a cheap backup Qb. Imo those two things contradict one another tbh. So you thought enough of him that you didn’t wanna potentially miss out on a prospect that turns out to be really good but you only drafted him to be a back up quarterback. 

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

I have no interest in using a top 10 pick on a player who’s going to sit on the bench, or relegate Seumalo to the bench.  Dillard is an example of a first round pick who sat on the bench for a year behind Peters, then tore his bicep and missed his second year — now people proclaim him a bust because he hasn’t seen the field enough.  If Kelce retires then a case can be made to draft a G/C in the first or second round.  Slater is a OT that would move over to guard, and Seumalo to C.  For me it would be a very hard sell to draft an OT high, unless you can move Dillard to JAX for their second round pick (#33), which is doubtful.  OT is just not a big need right now.

If WR or Pitts is the pick at #6 they would need to be the alpha dog of the offense to justify the pick, which means 80 catches, 1300 yards-type of production almost every year.  If the Eagles believe Chase or Pitts can be that type of player then they will make them the selection.  
 

I don’t see any defensive players worth a top 10 pick in this draft.

The only way you draft Slater to this team is with the intention of moving him into guard, with the expectation that Isaac will take over for Kelce when he goes. I don't think that's worth using the 6th pick. But a trade down to 10-15 and getting him there is fine. I wouldn't mind that move, paired with Wyatt Davis in the early 2nd. It would really take care of a lot of OL issues that will be coming up soon. 

I see this debate sort of pointless. The way you should rebuild is taking BPA. If a WR is on top of your board, then you grab him.

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Where was this reported? All I’ve heard them say is they didn’t want to miss out like they did with russell Wilson and they needed a cheap backup Qb. Imo those two things contradict one another tbh. So you thought enough of him that you didn’t wanna potentially miss out on a prospect that turns out to be really good but you only drafted him to be a back up quarterback. 

Drafting Hurts in the 2nd absolutely signaled the end of the Wentz era here. They took Hurts thinking he would be the guy moving forward. You have to think Sirianni took the job understanding Hurts was his QB. I would be floored, and absolutely devastated if they take a QB at 6 this year. 

8 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Without looking it up, I'm pretty sure Schwartz defenses were good as per DVOA rankings. I'll ask @ManuManu for help here, I seem to remember him posting the stats. There's not really such a thing as shut down defense anymore, you can easily win with average. 

 

Right and they were built around foundational blue chip talent in Cox and Graham.  They are in their 30s and at the back end of their careers. Our defense is completely void of young blue chip cornerstone players.