4 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

The problem with Nolan Patrick is that he’s objectively the worst of any of the top 5 picks. It could be argued that Hischier hasn’t been leaps and bounds better, but Hischier, Heiskanen, and Pettersen have all been named all-stars, and Cale Makar logs 25 minutes per game with the Avalanche.

When I watch the Flyers play (which isn’t a lot anymore) I seldom notice Patrick at all.  Joel Farabee looks much more advanced despite being a year younger.  The #2 overall pick should be a top six forward by now and Patrick isn’t close to that level.

Did Roseman consult on the Patrick pick?

2 hours ago, TEW said:

Yup.

Expect to see a lot more of that in the future. When math is deemed subjective and objective mathematical truth is deemed white supremacy, there will be real world consequences.

Math doesn’t care about politics or political correctness or wokeness or any of that garbage. It is the language of reality, regardless of how much or little you or I might like that reality.

I'm pretty sure they're still teaching math. What has changed is how they are trying to get kids to think about mathematical concepts. Educational theory has moved to trying to teach the higher level principles as opposed to rote memorization. I think your worries about wokeness overcoming education really doesn't take into account a lot of the thought that has gone into schools. The fact that we have a deficit vs. other countries in test performance probably relates to other factors outside of actual education.  

We could probably have a better dialog if people could acknowledge the truth about racism in this country and where we need to improve our educational methods.  Too often, education is political.  Those politics are local and vary from state to state.  What we need is evidenced based education policy put in place by professionals and not half-baked populist politicians or other self-serving interests.  

9 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

The problem with Nolan Patrick is that he’s objectively the worst of any of the top 5 picks. It could be argued that Hischier hasn’t been leaps and bounds better, but Hischier, Heiskanen, and Pettersen have all been named all-stars, and Cale Makar logs 25 minutes per game with the Avalanche.

When I watch the Flyers play (which isn’t a lot anymore) I seldom notice Patrick at all.  Joel Farabee looks much more advanced despite being a year younger.  The #2 overall pick should be a top six forward by now and Patrick isn’t close to that level.

Pettersson might ultimately be the best player of the bunch imo. He’s averaging .921 points per game to start his career. He’s also likely to get better teammates around him as he grows so that might actually improve. I think hischier is a good player. I also don’t see him as a star. He’s also trending the opposite direction every year since his rookie season. Honestly miro heiskanen and pettersson look like studs. Both went after Patrick. Makar was very good last year 50 points in 57 games for his first nhl time and a defenseman is really good. Has 14 so far in 15 games and playing a ton of ice time

1 hour ago, Original Sin said:

Why would they waste time on things that are becoming obsolete?

because you aren't teaching them "map"

you are teaching them the thought process

35 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

He has had a fairly decent track record in recent years. 

 

2018

1) Lamar Jackson
2) Josh Allen
3) Baker Mayfield
4) Sam Darnold
5) Josh Rosen

2019

1) Kyler Murray
2) Drew Lock
3) Dwayne Haskins
4) Ryan Finley
5) Jarrett Stidham
6) Daniel Jones
7) Clayton Thorson
😎

2020

1) Joe Burrow
2) Justin Herbert
3) Jordan Love
4) Tua Tagovailoa

 

He also talked about hurts yesterday with roob and zangaro. 

 

"I would probably take that gamble (on drafting a quarterback),” Simms said. "I probably would. I never evaluated Jalen Hurts through my process — and I know he’s a fine young man and he’s got charisma and leadership skills and all that — but there’s just nothing that I ever saw that led me to think he’s an NFL starting quarterback. And I don’t like saying that about a young kid and, listen, I hope he proves me wrong. And if he proves me wrong, I’ll be on here to go, ‘Way to go, Jalen Hurts, you made Chris Simms look like a dumb idiot, way to go.’ I hope that’s the case, I do.

"But I think, all in all, I probably would be seriously thinking about the quarterback and the draft route. I would. I’m very impressed with the top guys I’ve seen in the draft. I really am. There’s five or six guys that I look at and I go, ‘These guys are NFL starting quarterbacks and they can be something in the league for sure.’ So that possibility is there.”

"But my money would bet more on the more time goes and the more he plays, and the more people figure out his tendencies and his inability maybe to stretch the field in all areas of the pass game, that [Hurts] will look less and less like a passing quarterback,” Simms said. "That would be my thought right now. And that’s why Howie Roseman and some of those guys are getting paid a lot of money. They gotta figure out that situation.”

The closest thing I see to a dominant DL in this draft is Christian Barmore.  That guy looks like a Grizzly Bear out there.  Wouldn’t be surprised if he goes off the board between 15-20

19 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Honestly miro heiskanen who went 3 and Elias pettersson are good players. Miro is a good defenseman. Pettersson is averaging a little below a point per game for his career. Has 153 points in 166 games. Even makar has played great so far. As a defenseman last year in his first nhl action he had 50 points in 57 games. So far this year 14 points in 15 games. 

What I meant was that was not a good year to be at #2 when the consensus 1 & 2 picks were Nico and Patrick.  All the other years around then there was McDavid, Eichel, Laine, Matthews, etc. 

10 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

because you aren't teaching them "map"

you are teaching them the thought process

They get thought process in many other ways , map won’t make or break them

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

He also talked about hurts yesterday with roob and zangaro. 

 

"I would probably take that gamble (on drafting a quarterback),” Simms said. "I probably would. I never evaluated Jalen Hurts through my process — and I know he’s a fine young man and he’s got charisma and leadership skills and all that — but there’s just nothing that I ever saw that led me to think he’s an NFL starting quarterback. And I don’t like saying that about a young kid and, listen, I hope he proves me wrong. And if he proves me wrong, I’ll be on here to go, ‘Way to go, Jalen Hurts, you made Chris Simms look like a dumb idiot, way to go.’ I hope that’s the case, I do.

"But I think, all in all, I probably would be seriously thinking about the quarterback and the draft route. I would. I’m very impressed with the top guys I’ve seen in the draft. I really am. There’s five or six guys that I look at and I go, ‘These guys are NFL starting quarterbacks and they can be something in the league for sure.’ So that possibility is there.”

"But my money would bet more on the more time goes and the more he plays, and the more people figure out his tendencies and his inability maybe to stretch the field in all areas of the pass game, that [Hurts] will look less and less like a passing quarterback,” Simms said. "That would be my thought right now. And that’s why Howie Roseman and some of those guys are getting paid a lot of money. They gotta figure out that situation.”

I wouldn’t disagree with any of the above, but do you build the roster first, or do you draft the QB first?  I would argue when the Eagles moved up for Wentz the roster was much better in 2016 than it is right now.

If I were Howie I would answer the phone every time my draft slot came up, and trade back for more picks wherever it makes sense.  Sure, the Eagles need a good starting QB — but I would say the right way to build a winner is put the pieces in place first.  Otherwise Zach Wilson or Justin Fields might take the same path as Sam Darnold.

2 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I wouldn’t disagree with any of the above, but do you build the roster first, or do you draft the QB first?  I would argue when the Eagles moved up for Wentz the roster was much better in 2016 than it is right now.

If I were Howie I would answer the phone every time my draft slot came up, and trade back for more picks wherever it makes sense.  Sure, the Eagles need a good starting QB — but I would say the right way to build a winner is put the pieces in place first.  Otherwise Zach Wilson or Justin Fields might take the same path as Sam Darnold.

if the goal is a title, you build the roster first so you can leverage the rookie qb contract maximally

5 minutes ago, Khani1 said:

What I meant was that was not a good year to be at #2 when the consensus 1 & 2 picks were Nico and Patrick.  All the other years around then there was McDavid, Eichel, Laine, Matthews, etc. 

Yeah it wasn’t a great draft with that generation type of talent. Feels like the flyers always seem to get the short end of the stick when getting the second pick since the rule changes. Missed kane and that draft there wasn’t what was considered a generational type talent. 

3 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

They get thought process is many other ways , map won’t make or break them

the point is to give them as many contextual situations as possible, so that they can apply the thought processes when a novel situation is presented. to not teach it is a wasted opportunity and failing the kids.

2 hours ago, austinfan said:

"unbiased?" By whose standards?  It used to be taught that the "War Between the States" was about states' rights, ignoring the Fugitive Slave Act (which trampled states' rights to protect slavery). It took generations of scholars to finally change to the reality that the Civil War was about slavery, pure and simple, all you had to do was read the statements by the Southern leaders.

To study the issue of slavery, one really needs to take an historic view and a global perspective.  It is not limited by any means to the Western Africa slave trade and the Americas. It is as old as civilization and hit most cultures.  

The Civil War was about slavery, but it was also driven by economics and labor.  Slavery is not the same as labor but the two are akin.  To truly understand the conflict, one must understand both sides of the issue and the economic underpinning of the matter.  

Take the Fugitive Slave Act.  From a Southern perspective it was Northern states that were usurping Southern property rights.  I am not advocating for the South but it is important to understand both sides to an issue.  The South could not see a path to economic health without slave labor.  

Let’s not pretend that the North was altruistic in its approach to Federal laws (support of tariffs to the detriment of the south and west, for example).  Let’s also not pretend that the North or far west were treating their sources for labor like kings. Look at the treatment of child labor in the mills well past the Civil War.  Irish and Chinese labor on the railroads.  Heck if you were Donald Trump claiming bones spurs or George W. Bush, Texas Guard planes, you would have just paid an Irish immigrant escaping from lack of land ownership and the high rents of Ireland to just take your place on the battlefield to fulfill your draft obligation.  

 So many study the Civil War and ignore the sharecropping or contract laboring that came after the war.  The lack of capital in the South after the Civil War was extraordinary.  The loss of capital spent to acquire the labor force that were the slaves coupled with the loss of capital by the failure of Confederate currency and bonds undermined the recovery. People don’t realize that preceding the Civil War and at the end of the War, the South was in a severe drought.  Further, European and US wide economic decline was on the doorstep. 

As an economist you are undoubtedly familiar with the Long Depression and the Panic of 1873 and Panic of 1893.  The 1873 Panic came on the heels of the great Midwest Drought and accompanying wildfires. (Port Huron and of course, Chicago).  That was followed by a drought in Asia, Africa and South American that resulted in famine of biblical proportions. The drought of the 1890s was pretty tough here as well.  It is frightening how few people are aware of these.  That sharecropping economy existed for close to a century.  Two thirds to farm the land and use the gin, one third to sell and live off of.  Drought drove sharecroppers and laborers to the city and drudge jobs and ghettos.  

Unbiased?  The economic winners tell the history most people get.

 

2 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I wouldn’t disagree with any of the above, but do you build the roster first, or do you draft the QB first?  I would argue when the Eagles moved up for Wentz the roster was much better in 2016 than it is right now.

If I were Howie I would answer the phone every time my draft slot came up, and trade back for more picks wherever it makes sense.  Sure, the Eagles need a good starting QB — but I would say the right way to build a winner is put the pieces in place first.  Otherwise Zach Wilson or Justin Fields might take the same path as Sam Darnold.

I go back and forth on this, and I'm not sure there is a right answer. I agree you don't want to Darnold them and throw them out there with no supporting staff where the QB will never properly develop. On the other hand, if you have a sub par to average QB and you build up the roster, you keep pushing yourself towards mediocre to average which puts you in no mans land to get a QB unless you do a massive trade  up. 

1 hour ago, Original Sin said:

Why would they waste time on things that are becoming obsolete?

Disclaimer: I am not a professional educator

Learning a little about maps and how to use them can teach more than how to get from here to there, particularly if the user is the least bit curious. It doesn't hurt to know more than how to "follow the magenta line". Some might be curious about the world around them beyond their fondle slab -- eventually.

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Yeah it wasn’t a great draft with that generation type of talent. Feels like the flyers always seem to get the short end of the stick when getting the second pick since the rule changes. Missed kane and that draft there wasn’t what was considered a generational type talent. 

that's why i think the second best option is to build your prospect pool so when a generational talent becomes available for trade you use them to get that player because relying on the lottery is dangerous look at buffalo and edm.

the millennials are by all measures the best educated generation of all time.

Millennials hold the highest rates of high school graduation, the highest rate of college graduation and the highest rate of masters and doctorates degrees. Yes, they've been saddled with insane levels of debt, but that money wasn't entirely wasted.

 

4 minutes ago, toughfighter83 said:

that's why i think the second best option is to build your prospect pool so when a generational talent becomes available for trade you use them to get that player because relying on the lottery is dangerous look at buffalo and edm.

Frankly it’s why i would be in on eichel. He’s having a solid season but get him out of buffalo i think that kid flourishes to what people expected when he was drafted and heights higher than the last two years. The rumors are Boston, Rangers and kings. If he goes to the Rangers or Boston and becomes that player would be a kick to the groin. 

2 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

Disclaimer: I am not a professional educator

Learning a little about maps and how to use them can teach more than how to get from here to there, particularly if the user is the least bit curious. It doesn't hurt to know more than how to "follow the magenta line". Some might be curious about the world around them beyond their fondle slab -- eventually.

I’m not a millennial, and I haven’t used a map in over 20 years , manage to get where I’m going just fine .

some things are going obsolete for a reason , time has passed them by

2 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

The biggest practical issue I see with millennials in the real world is, very few want to put the work in.  So many young people believe they’re entitled to start at or near the top instead of starting at the bottom and working your way up — there’s incredible value and perspective gained in doing that.  
The first job I had paid me $3.95 per hour, I often worked 12-14 hours per day and 6-7 days per week to get noticed by my bosses and work my way up.  I certainly don’t know any young people willing to do that now.  In both Canada and the US the immigrants do all the jobs that white kids think are beneath them.  I used to do those jobs.

Entitlement and laziness are in abundance now — can’t be a good thing for the future 

Horse manure.  I see millennials with great work ethic every day.   Never knew anyone from the greatest generation that had a bad work ethic?  No boomers like that.  Now each generation has its quirks.  I noticed that with training but if you never met a millennial with a good work ethic, I would be glad to introduce you to some. 

8 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

To study the issue of slavery, one really needs to take an historic view and a global perspective.  It is not limited by any means to the Western Africa slave trade and the Americas. It is as old as civilization and hit most cultures.  

The Civil War was about slavery, but it was also driven by economics and labor.  Slavery is not the same as labor but the two are akin.  To truly understand the conflict, one must understand both sides of the issue and the economic underpinning of the matter.  

Take the Fugitive Slave Act.  From a Southern perspective it was Northern states that were usurping Southern property rights.  I am not advocating for the South but it is important to understand both sides to an issue.  The South could not see a path to economic health without slave labor.  

Let’s not pretend that the North was altruistic in its approach to Federal laws (support of tariffs to the detriment of the south and west, for example).  Let’s also not pretend that the North or far west were treating their sources for labor like kings. Look at the treatment of child labor in the mills well past the Civil War.  Irish and Chinese labor on the railroads.  Heck if you were Donald Trump claiming bones spurs or George W. Bush, Texas Guard planes, you would have just paid an Irish immigrant escaping from lack of land ownership and the high rents of Ireland to just take your place on the battlefield to fulfill your draft obligation.  

 So many study the Civil War and ignore the sharecropping or contract laboring that came after the war.  The lack of capital in the South after the Civil War was extraordinary.  The loss of capital spent to acquire the labor force that were the slaves coupled with the loss of capital by the failure of Confederate currency and bonds undermined the recovery. People don’t realize that preceding the Civil War and at the end of the War, the South was in a severe drought.  Further, European and US wide economic decline was on the doorstep. 

As an economist you are undoubtedly familiar with the Long Depression and the Panic of 1873 and Panic of 1893.  The 1873 Panic came on the heels of the great Midwest Drought and accompanying wildfires. (Port Huron and of course, Chicago).  That was followed by a drought in Asia, Africa and South American that resulted in famine of biblical proportions. The drought of the 1890s was pretty tough here as well.  It is frightening how few people are aware of these.  That sharecropping economy existed for close to a century.  Two thirds to farm the land and use the gin, one third to sell and live off of.  Drought drove sharecroppers and laborers to the city and drudge jobs and ghettos.  

Unbiased?  The economic winners tell the history most people get.

 

Great post!

We should understand the difference between history and folklore. We get a lot of the former and precious little of the latter. Crudely put, history is what the general says; folklore is what the grunts say. Alternatively, history is the story of the slaveowners and the Southern economy. Folklore is the experiences of the slaves and the sharecroppers. Or, as you say, history is told by the winners, folklore by the losers.

2 hours ago, bpac55 said:

This is the important thing to know.  Just like my parents struggle with some technology, my niece and nephew have no idea how to use a compass or protractor.  Probably don't even know what they are.

Show them a map and they're clueless.  Ask them to help with Waze and they can get us to the beach.

You haven’t taught them how to use a compass, use the woods and the heavens to tell you the direction, to look at the topography of the map to determine where they are?  Use a protractor to determine the angle as you are building something in the garage?  You must be spending too much time in here and not with them.

9 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

the millennials are by all measures the best educated generation of all time.

Millennials hold the highest rates of high school graduation, the highest rate of college graduation and the highest rate of masters and doctorates degrees. Yes, they've been saddled with insane levels of debt, but that money wasn't entirely wasted.

 

Those are pretty fuzzy parameters....

What we are witnessing is the byproduct of the greatest dilution of education in our country's recent history. In my county the two high schools with the highest graduation rates have the lowest overall test scores in math and english language arts. Some schools have no criteria for their AP courses so any student can opt in on their own so many students have inflated GPA's.  Again the two high schools also have the highest AP participation rate but the lowest AP results....I seriously question what their priorities are. 

In addition, many colleges are packaging BA/MA degrees programs to new students...not for the benefits of the student, but as a way to increase tuition revenue...MA's and doctorates are being given away like candy

 

7 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Frankly it’s why i would be in on eichel. He’s having a solid season but get him out of buffalo i think that kid flourishes to what people expected when he was drafted and heights higher than the last two years. The rumors are Boston, Rangers and kings. If he goes to the Rangers or Boston and becomes that player would be a kick to the groin. 

I'd love Eichel centering Farbabee and one of  Laughton/Raffl or maybe Konecny, but I would have no problem including Konecny in a trade to get Eichel.

2 hours ago, bpac55 said:

And this is where the minimum wage discussion gets tricky.  Is it meant to be a liveable wage or a wage for folks to start working?  I'm guessing we've all worked crappy jobs with crappy pay. One summer I had the option of working retail or at a restaurant for minimum wage...or I could pick frozen foods in a warehouse for $14.  The job sucked, I had to wear bibs and pick in a freezer on a pallet jack for 8 hours but the paycheck was great and even better was you had a quota to pick....so the harder you worked the less time you spent in the freezer and you still got your full 8-hour pay.

When I was in college I did end up working retail.  I worked the floor helping people find stuff but when they asked if anyone wanted to work in Customer Service for $4/hr more I jumped on it.  It came with more responsibility (checking out customers, counting the safe, closing the store...) but $4/hr is a big jump.  Some people didn't want that so they were stuck with making less money.  

If you're working a minimum wage job and want to make more money, 9 times out of 10 you control it.  Either you work harder, get a different or additional job or show that you deserve more.  The problem today is everyone wants more without giving more.  Your last sentence hits the nail on the head.  

When folks talk about white privilege, your experience is what you are describing.  I would also suggest that is also gender privilege.  Your belief that everyone would enjoy the same opportunities is not realistic.