1 hour ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

He's a loser

It's interesting.  Tommy Lawlor wrote about this today and I've never seen him write something to this effect.

 

Really weak stuff. Wentz got benched and started to think that might be the end of his time in Philly? Randall Cunningham was benched in 1992 and was the starting QB for the next three years.

In the other video, Wentz says "I’ve never once questioned my competitiveness.” What the hell does that mean? No one is asking whether you think you are competitive. Your actions told the world you didn’t want to compete.

Weak.

Part of me wants to wish him well. I like Frank Reich and plenty of Colts players. It is easy to pull for them.

Another part of me wants Indy to turn into a disaster. This is petty me, the scorned fan who wants Wentz to rue the day he ever turned his back on the City of Brotherly Love. Wear that stupid cammo sleeve, go 0-16 and lead the league in picks. Then demand a trade to wherever Doug Pederson is a year from now and explain that he was your favorite coach all along and you just didn’t know it.

We’ll see what happens. It would be a lot easier to forgive and forget if the Eagles didn’t look so bad on paper.

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

How many players on the entire roster have a trade value that is greater than their original draft pick...or more than the Eagles paid via trade...or more than the Eagles paid via most recent contract/extension?

It's remarkable that every player added to this roster in the last several years (sans Mailata) has seen their value deteriorate.

This is the NFL. That's just what happens.

NFL players are cars; for the most part they lose value once they leave the lot.

A guy saying after the fact that his initial benching might be when he thought he was no longer the starter isn't some breaking news. 

Especially when the question was framed something like "When is the moment you thought you weren't going to be the starter in Philly anymore? Was it Green Bay?"

5 minutes ago, RLC said:

This is the NFL. That's just what happens.

NFL players are cars; for the most part they lose value once they leave the lot.

Every other team in the NFL could name more than 1 player that has outperformed their investment.

4 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

A guy saying after the fact that his initial benching might be when he thought he was no longer the starter isn't some breaking news. 

No it isn't.  It just confirms what we already thought.

Justin Fields said 40 time now 4.41 and hopes to be in 4.3's come pro day.  That change anything for anyone?

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

Every other team in the NFL could name more than 1 player that has outperformed their investment.

You don't think that Goedert would get more than a mid-round 2nd or Sweat a late 4th, so if you're going to be that tough of a grader, then the number is quite low...especially for non QBs.

People have to get on the 12 step program here and accept it's a rebuild. We just haven't had a full rebuild in two decades, we reloaded after 2005, 2012 and 2015, to the point that fans take it for granted that you should never have two losing seasons in a row!  Tell that to fans of the Giants, Cowgrils and WFT. But the last two years of Rhodes was a death spiral, and Andy needed another year to put his schemes in place and identify keepers. But they drafted high for three years and built the foundation of a team that went to 4 straight NFC championship games and a SB.

So I don't want them to be competitive, I don't want them to sign FAs to get to 7-10 or 8-9, if they get to .500, I want to do it with young players they've acquired and coached up.

I'm more interested in seeing whether Sirianni can salvage JJAW or turn Tyree Jackson into a force at H-back, replacing Ertz. I want to see Stoutland continue to develop young OL and transition from Kelce - Brooks _Lane over the next three seasons. I want to see if the new LB coach can turn Taylor and Bradley into at least solid nickel LBs this season. And whether Gannon can find his CBs and put in a scheme that doesn't consistently leave the on an island or giving up 10 yard cushions.

I'll worry about winning games come 2023, and want to compete for FAs that offseason.

The next two years, I just want good drafts, steals off the waiver wire, and the "pirate ship" raiding other team PS squads for hidden gems.

 

44 minutes ago, purplefiggy said:

I was very much a Wentz guy and was even willing to rationalize some of the other stuff we were hearing about him...but man, if you are that fragile where after deservedly getting benched the first thing you start thinking about is getting out vs fighting to get yourself right and win back your job, that’s like a little kid taking his ball and going home because he was out at 1st base. 
 

#respectlost

I couldn’t agree more. I feel stupid for putting so much faith in him and then find out this is the kind of "competitor” he actually is. 

1 minute ago, garingovt2000 said:

Justin Fields said 40 time now 4.41 and hopes to be in 4.3's come pro day.  That change anything for anyone?

No

1 minute ago, garingovt2000 said:

Justin Fields said 40 time now 4.41 and hopes to be in 4.3's come pro day.  That change anything for anyone?

Is he changing his position to WR?

2 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

Justin Fields said 40 time now 4.41 and hopes to be in 4.3's come pro day.  That change anything for anyone?

Yes absolutely; I want him less.  The fact that a raw, non-pro-style QB is working on his 40 time says everything I need to know about how well he'll adjust to passing in the NFL.

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Every other team in the NFL could name more than 1 player that has outperformed their investment.

All in all your partially correct....and yet you named one for the Eagles, and maybe another one. Mailata not only has exceeded his value, but he plays one of the most important positions on the entire field.

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

People have to get on the 12 step program here and accept it's a rebuild. We just haven't had a full rebuild in two decades, we reloaded after 2005, 2012 and 2015, to the point that fans take it for granted that you should never have two losing seasons in a row!  Tell that to fans of the Giants, Cowgrils and WFT. But the last two years of Rhodes was a death spiral, and Andy needed another year to put his schemes in place and identify keepers. But they drafted high for three years and built the foundation of a team that went to 4 straight NFC championship games and a SB.

So I don't want them to be competitive, I don't want them to sign FAs to get to 7-10 or 8-9, if they get to .500, I want to do it with young players they've acquired and coached up.

I'm more interested in seeing whether Sirianni can salvage JJAW or turn Tyree Jackson into a force at H-back, replacing Ertz. I want to see Stoutland continue to develop young OL and transition from Kelce - Brooks _Lane over the next three seasons. I want to see if the new LB coach can turn Taylor and Bradley into at least solid nickel LBs this season. And whether Gannon can find his CBs and put in a scheme that doesn't consistently leave the on an island or giving up 10 yard cushions.

I'll worry about winning games come 2023, and want to compete for FAs that offseason.

The next two years, I just want good drafts, steals off the waiver wire, and the "pirate ship" raiding other team PS squads for hidden gems.

 

I agree....that is pretty much my expecations. In addition, I would like to see the cap get managed to the point that the Eagles can grab a stud or two in FA.

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

How many players on the entire roster have a trade value that is greater than their original draft pick...or more than the Eagles paid via trade...or more than the Eagles paid via most recent contract/extension?

I've got 1, Mailata.  Sweat comes close, but I don't think he'd fetch more than a 4.  Sanders is definitely not getting more than a 2.  Hargrave doesn't get that much money if he's on the market right now.  Seumalo isn't getting traded for a 3, although I bet a team would take on his contract.

It's remarkable that every player added to this roster in the last several years (sans Mailata) has seen their value deteriorate.

I don't know if that's some sort of fair measure.  I mean I don't think many players go up in value unless they are absolute pro-bowl type players.  If they are a pro-bowl player the value seems inflated. It's almost like an inverted bell curve.  But look at the Mack trade: 

The Raiders received:

2019 first round (running back Josh Jacobs at No. 24 by Raiders)
2019 sixth round (cornerback Blessuan Austin at No. 196 by Jets)
2020 first round (cornerback Damon Arnette at No. 19 by Raiders)
2020 third round (receiver Bryan Edwards at No. 81 by Raiders)

The Bears got:

Mack
2020 second-round pick (tight end Cole Kmet at No. 43)
2020 seventh-round pick (offensive lineman Arlington Hambright at No. 226)

I mean it doesn't look like a bad deal for the Bears when you look at the players drafted.  Also their have been plenty of instances where players were traded for low picks and turned in to all pro players.  I mean Hugh Douglas was acquired for a 2nd and 5th and turned into an all pro.  Randy Moss was traded to NE for a 4th or 5th round pick and reverted to his all pro form. So evaluation in terms of picks is relative to the team not necessarily a comment on the talent of the player.  I do think the lack of value speaks to the poor performance of many of the players on the roster.   

8 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Except he was pretty much a consensus 2nd round pick. He certainly wasn't a "reach."

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-why-stanfords-jj-arcega-whiteside-is-a-top-three-wideout-in-the-2019-nfl-draft

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/j.j.-arcega-whiteside/32004152-4333-6505-70a1-e94c6ecf2bd3

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2019-nfl-draft-eagles-land-j-j-arcega-whiteside-as-a-big-bodied-target-for-carson-wentz/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/04/29/nfl-draft-five-high-risk-picks-plus-five-steals/

Doug went to 4 verticals as a big part of his offense last year, a role JJAW is totally unsuited for, Sirianni has worked with big physical WRs in SD and Indy, Pascal for example profiles a lot like JJAW.

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2017/3/18/14963976/scouting-the-2017-nfl-draft-zachary-pascal-scouting-report-wr-old-dominion

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2017/03/18/dallas-cowboys-old-dominion-university-pro-day-2017-david-washington-zach-pascal-rashaad-coward-nfl-draft/

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2019/11/01/rise-zach-pascal-8th-round-pick-critical-cog-colts-offense/4087837002/

JJAW was a bad pick because DK would have been a better pick.  

9 minutes ago, austinfan said:

People have to get on the 12 step program here and accept it's a rebuild. 

 

Hi, My name is NCIggles and I am an Eagles fan.  

Who you guys got for low seeds getting to the final four ??  I am looking at San Diego St and UConn.

9 minutes ago, austinfan said:

People have to get on the 12 step program here and accept it's a rebuild. We just haven't had a full rebuild in two decades, we reloaded after 2005, 2012 and 2015, to the point that fans take it for granted that you should never have two losing seasons in a row!  Tell that to fans of the Giants, Cowgrils and WFT. But the last two years of Rhodes was a death spiral, and Andy needed another year to put his schemes in place and identify keepers. But they drafted high for three years and built the foundation of a team that went to 4 straight NFC championship games and a SB.

So I don't want them to be competitive, I don't want them to sign FAs to get to 7-10 or 8-9, if they get to .500, I want to do it with young players they've acquired and coached up.

I'm more interested in seeing whether Sirianni can salvage JJAW or turn Tyree Jackson into a force at H-back, replacing Ertz. I want to see Stoutland continue to develop young OL and transition from Kelce - Brooks _Lane over the next three seasons. I want to see if the new LB coach can turn Taylor and Bradley into at least solid nickel LBs this season. And whether Gannon can find his CBs and put in a scheme that doesn't consistently leave the on an island or giving up 10 yard cushions.

I'll worry about winning games come 2023, and want to compete for FAs that offseason.

The next two years, I just want good drafts, steals off the waiver wire, and the "pirate ship" raiding other team PS squads for hidden gems.

 

This makes sense from a fan's perspective: Higher draft picks and waiver priority = better shot at acquiring better players. In practice, having 3 straight 6 wins or fewer seasons would be horrible for the team's culture. Just draft better and hire coaches who develop players. 

2 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Hi, My name is NCIggles and I am an Eagles fan.  

The only requirement for membership is a desire to be put through agonizing years of pain and suffering from ineptitude and malfeasance.

11 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Yes absolutely; I want him less.  The fact that a raw, non-pro-style QB is working on his 40 time says everything I need to know about how well he'll adjust to passing in the NFL.

from what i understand is a lot of scouts said he wasn't that fast 4.5-4.6 guy so he wants to run to shut them up

2 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

from what i understand is a lot of scouts said he wasn't that fast 4.5-4.6 guy so he wants to run to shut them up

I think putting out the appearance of rigorously training for the 40 yard dash is a poor move for a QB. 

29 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

Justin Fields said 40 time now 4.41 and hopes to be in 4.3's come pro day.  That change anything for anyone?

He’s slow to go through his reads and holds the ball too long.  If they change the rules where he’s allowed to run away after being sacked, this faster Fields might be onto something 

15 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

I think putting out the appearance of rigorously training for the 40 yard dash is a poor move for a QB. 

It’s one thing if you are Peyton Manning, everyone knows you are the most polished QB prospect in history, and you want to prove you can eek out a 4.7 and aren’t a total statue.  Training from that standpoint makes someone look competitive.  
 

When you are a known great athlete who is behind in his development as a pro-style passer, training to go from 4.4 to 4.3 makes you look misguided.

30 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

This makes sense from a fan's perspective: Higher draft picks and waiver priority = better shot at acquiring better players. In practice, having 3 straight 6 wins or fewer seasons would be horrible for the team's culture. Just draft better and hire coaches who develop players. 

It's not that you don't want to win, you don't want a "fool's gold" rebuild. We've seen this around the league, new GM comes to a bad team, makes a bunch of FA acquisitions, trades draft picks for more veterans, there's a rebound for 1 or 2 years, then back to the basement.

If you're gonna rebuild, do it right, then after a couple years go sign the prime age FAs, 25-27 years old on their second contract, especially guys with upside left like Brooks. Do not sign 29-30 year old FAs to big, long-term contracts, especially at athlete positions like WR (the top 20 in yardage last year were 28 or younger) and edge pass rushers.

By timing it, Howie can build a nucleus of a team, identify needs in the winter of 2023, sign 2-3 FAs to fill major holes, then a few 1 year patches if needed to give kids time to mature. At that point the FA contracts will cover the same period as most of your rookie contracts, and expire as you have to sign your core young players to their second contracts.

I hope Howie has learn the key rule of sports contracts, pay for future, not past production. Better to let top players walk at 30-31, then go sign other players to 1-2 year deals to replace them while you look for long-term answers in the draft or from younger FAs. Paying premium prices for players on the decline (Jeffrey) is the road to cap hell. The one exception are top OL around 30, they tend to play at a high level until their mid-30s if they avoid injury (and that's random, Peters for example was injured at age 30, came back with 4 pro bowl seasons, injured at 35, then two more good seasons).

44 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

This makes sense from a fan's perspective: Higher draft picks and waiver priority = better shot at acquiring better players. In practice, having 3 straight 6 wins or fewer seasons would be horrible for the team's culture. Just draft better and hire coaches who develop players. 

I think the new coaches were all hired in relation to player development.   From what I have read it is the strong suit of each one.

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

People have to get on the 12 step program here and accept it's a rebuild. 

Who here doesn't recognize that we're in a rebuild? The only 12 step program that's needed is for those that think our current state is simply the cyclical natural of the NFL and fail to recognize the obvious failures of our GM that put us in this situation.