Saints are always on some BS 

 

Just out of curiosity, when Hurts has a garbage year in 2021 and no WR goes for over 600 yards for the 20th consecutive year, are we going to say that we shouldn’t invest in a new QB because Hurts never had a fair shot?  I’m just wondering how long this dance lasts.  

1 minute ago, Don Corleone said:

Saints are always on some BS 

 

Whats up Don.  Good to see you popping in a little more regularly.  Never got your thoughts on Hakeem Butler making his way to Philly.  Hopefully we can turn him around.

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I think the concept of building around a CB is about as up to date as building around a bruising RB.

Nobody said building around , I said you need quality DBs , I personally would build my defense back to front and inside out 

you can manufacture a pass rush , you can’t fake good coverage 

 

8 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I would be thrilled to have a young CB stud to build around.

 

2 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Nobody said building around , I said you need quality DBs , I personally would build my defense back to front and inside out 

 

 

12 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

The argument can be made that the Colts didn’t spend first round picks on WRs either.  I will accept BPA and if that is a receiver, so be it.  But it is not the most glaring need for the Eagles.   I happen to think Farley is in the top 6 players so I would be thrilled to have a young CB stud to build around.  I also think Surtain is in the top ten so he is another possible building block to build a secondary around.   I like Chase as an option.  But I am not sold that Chase, Pitts, Smith are players that defensive coordinators have to scheme for.  This is a good draft for slot WRs but I am not convinced that using a first for a slot is a wise decision.  Frankly, the top of this draft isn’t that great but I think as CBS go, Farley and Surtain would be first round selections any year. 

They spent a high 2 on Pittman, a low 2 on Campbell and inherited a pro bowler in Hilton. 

But to follow your logic, I can say the Colts didn’t heavily invest in corner either. 

1 hour ago, Desertbirds said:

This has been Afan's argument and it has never made sense to me, particularly with respect to the draft..

Some of it makes sense to me.  I do think that Howie defers to the coaches on draft day. If they have two players in range of the pick and the scouts suggest A but the coaches want B, Howie goes B.  I suspect the coaches are concentrating on starter level picks in the film they watch, plus one on ones and individual workouts.  In the later rounds, I think it is the scouts that influence the picks more.  Same with UDFAs and PS picks.  That is where Howie has had some success.  I said for years that I think Schwartz wasn’t good at identifying prospects.  

Something to note.  Douglas and Weidl matured under Ozzie.  While Ozzie was phenomenal on defensive picks, on offense, he was best at OL and RB. His worst was WRs.  Now the good news is the scouts weren’t brought up by Ozzie.   Will be real interesting to see what, if any, turnover we see after the draft. That’s usually when scouting changes are made. Eagles shook things up a bit in 2018.  

9 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

The argument can be made that the Colts didn’t spend first round picks on WRs either.  I will accept BPA and if that is a receiver, so be it.  But it is not the most glaring need for the Eagles.   I happen to think Farley is in the top 6 players so I would be thrilled to have a young CB stud to build around.  I also think Surtain is in the top ten so he is another possible building block to build a secondary around.   I like Chase as an option.  But I am not sold that Chase, Pitts, Smith are players that defensive coordinators have to scheme for.  This is a good draft for slot WRs but I am not convinced that using a first for a slot is a wise decision.  Frankly, the top of this draft isn’t that great but I think as CBS go, Farley and Surtain would be first round selections any year. 

Reich inherited HIlton and Chester Rogers (6'0 184), drafted Pittman #34 (6'4 223), Campbell #59 (6' 205 speed guy), Grant (6'0 195) FA, Pascal (6'2 214) UDFA, M Johnson (6'1 207) off Eagle PS, 

TE: Ebron, FA, Burton FA, Alie-Cox off PS, inherited Doyle.

So I don't think taking a WR at #6 is a given, on the other hand, I don't think Surtain or Farley are generational CBs worth a top ten pick.

A trade down could be a real possibility if Sirianni thinks he can land a starting WR in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, or they don't think a WR/Pitts is worth #6.

Given that JJAW and Fulgham are the only full sized WRs on the roster, they'll add 1-2 in the draft and UDFAs.

1 hour ago, Original Sin said:

I didn’t say great , I said quality, and they have a top 15 one in Davis  and Dean grades out well too

Yup.

And davis and bunting were drafted in the 2nd round and Dean in the 3rd.

I think quality corners are available outside the first round.

Challenge is identifying them to fit ones system.

Whoever drafted rasul and Sydney jones failed.

Rasul was never fit, right draft spot good value bad scheme fit, sydney was a risk because if the injury and he never really fit either as Schwartz kept trying to make him a nickel where he really struggled.

If howie and Co can identify a couple of corners that fit their scheme outside of the first round I think their are some to be had, I'm not confident howie can do that but I'm confident there are  quality corners outside the first round and think they provide more value than a first round corner.

9 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup.

And davis and bunting were drafted in the 2nd round and Dean in the 3rd.

I think quality corners are available outside the first round.

Challenge is identifying them to fit ones system.

Whoever drafted rasul and Sydney jones failed.

Rasul was never fit, right draft spot good value bad scheme fit, sydney was a risk because if the injury and he never really fit either as Schwartz kept trying to make him a nickel where he really struggled.

If howie and Co can identify a couple of corners that fit their scheme outside of the first round I think their are some to be had, I'm not confident howie can do that but I'm confident there are  quality corners outside the first round and think they provide more value than a first round corner.

I always thought the communication level was off between Schwartz and Howie. He never seemed to have a secondary that fit together. And then he wanted to go to cover 1 man and no one but Slay was good enough to play it. 

I'm confident that Gannon has a much better idea than Schwartz or his CB coaches.

We spent a lot of draft picks on defensive players with Schwartz as DC and few worked out,  Jones, Douglas, Barnett, Maddox, Sweat, Miller, Taylor, Wallace in the first 4 rounds.

Really, the players who worked out were the veteran FA acquisitions:  Jenkins, McLeod, Bradham, Robinson, Long, Bennett, C Graham. Darby might have if he could have stayed healthy. Same with Jerrigan and Malik. It may be that Schwartz found it easier to identify veterans who fit what he wanted than prospects he could develop.

The one area we seem to draft well is OL, and Stoutland is a development oriented position coach.

48 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

I’m a big fan of Gowan , st - juste and Joseph at CB  position , also really like Jamar Johnson at db , a safety who can move around in the secondary 

Really like Gowan.  More than Horn.  

Johnson strikes me as more of a SS type, although he played FS. Not sure he has the speed to get to the sideline playing CF.  Seems best in support playing downhill. 

56 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I’d like to allocate all my likes for the day to this.  

I really think corner is in the same spot as RB.

RBs are rarely drafted in the 1st round anymore definitely not top10 because quality RBs can be found after first round for a lot less money.

Just like the league rules favor offense and scoring and make defense tougher it favors passing offense and as such RB has been devalued.

Instead if teams building their offense around a couple RBs they can run the ball with 30 times a game teams are passing 50 times a game and throwing 40 tds a year.

QB WRs OL are all at a premium and history has shown the most effective way of limiting that offense is with a pass rush as the rules are set up for corners to get toasted even the good ones week to week.

So why spend so many resources on a position the league has set up to fail all for high score offensive ratings?

2 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I really think corner is in the same spot as RB.

RBs are rarely drafted in the 1st round anymore definitely not top10 because quality RBs can be found after first round for a lot less money.

Just like the league rules favor offense and scoring and make defense tougher it favors passing offense and as such RB has been devalued.

Instead if teams building their offense around a couple RBs they can run the ball with 30 times a game teams are passing 50 times a game and throwing 40 tds a year.

QB WRs OL are all at a premium and history has shown the most effective way of limiting that offense is with a pass rush as the rules are set up for corners to get toasted even the good ones week to week.

So why spend so many resources on a position the league has set up to fail all for high score offensive ratings?

Let’s not go too crazy here. CB is still very valuable. 

52 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

I’m a big fan of Gowan , st - juste and Joseph at CB  position , also really like Jamar Johnson at db , a safety who can move around in the secondary 

Gowan seems to get no hype at all - the draft sites all seem to have him rated as a UDFA - however I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's taken on Day 2.

Eagles have reportedly shown interest.

Report: Eagles Had Virtual Meeting With Tay Gowan (thecoldwire.com)

So I’m thinking it’ll only cost a 7th for Foles. 

46 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

No, but poor/wrong routes, being scared of contact, drops were. Not to mention the lack of run after catch ability. 

Go back and look at Carson’s ball placement the last couple of years.  He wasn’t positioning his throws for YAC most of the time.  The poor route running I didn’t really see since JJAW’s first year. Some occasional stumbles but for rookies. Ward, for example looked much better route running last year. 

5 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

So I’m thinking it’ll only cost a 7th for Foles. 

Are you gonna mention that to Mariota when you pick him up at the airport?

9 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Go back and look at Carson’s ball placement the last couple of years.  He wasn’t positioning his throws for YAC most of the time.  The poor route running I didn’t really see since JJAW’s first year. Some occasional stumbles but for rookies. Ward, for example looked much better route running last year. 

We don’t need to bother talking about Wentz’s accuracy. I was harping on it way before it was cool.

We can see that Hightower is straight line and finesse. We’ve seen Ward on punt returns. He rarely makes anyone miss there, let alone as a receiver. Reagor is straight line, but can beat angles with speed and can be physical. Watkins might have some YAC, but he’s a flyer. JJAW can’t create YAC because he can’t separate. 

4 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Are you gonna mention that to Mariota when you pick him up at the airport?

I’ll say hang tight for 15 minutes Nick’s plane just landed 

13 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

I’ll say hang tight for 15 minutes Nick’s plane just landed 

And if you hang out for an additional 15 minutes, Nick’s gargantuan dong will be arriving via cargo plane.

 

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Back to the future!

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

 

 What could go wrong?

This franchise is a joke.

Giving up a draft pick to bring Foles back would be awful. We need young prospects for this team, not retreads.

Why am I not surprised "Yes" is winning in their poll