9 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Kelce is worth a top 5 pick.  Anquan Boldin is worth a top 10 pick.  Michael Thomas is worth a top 10 pick.

But the reality is that none of those guys, themselves, were drafted anywhere near that range.  That’s because we cant just invest first round picks in the assumption that players will become anomalies.  
 

A TE who is NOT a WR and does not have Vernon Davis level measurables?  That’s a risk.  Sure, Evan’s ran 4.50, but he WAS a wr.  He didn’t need scouts to speculate how he’d handle a position change.  And if he stays at TE, he can only be so much of a matchup nightmare with the way he blocks.  Much like Ertz, teams will just keep an extra DB on the field.  But he’s not going to toss people around in the way that Gronk/Kelce do.

His real upside is in being an X wr in the mold of Evans.  But it’s a transition and he doesn’t have the slam dunk workouts to back it up.  

So that’s questionable value top 10.

Pitts apparently practiced extensively with the WRs in college.  36% of his snaps did come lined up as a WR.  I don't think there's nothing to base his success on lined up outside.  To some extent this reminds me of the debate on Jefferson being only a slot receiver.  The reality is that a top 10 pick in the draft has to be a key component on your team.  If the player is an offensive skill player then you have to envision the player being in a role where he will be able to produce a significant portion of the offense.  I don't think a typical TE is that type of weapon especially given that the team has Goedert.  If they take Pitts, he has to be in a starting role where he's getting 75% of the offensive snaps.  I don't think it's as much of projection to place him as an X receiver given his college experience.  It's more of a projection than Chase who is a very good prospect.  

8 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

OK?  That’s a pretty low bar.  And not with the 6th overall pick.  We just drafted 3 WR last year.  One in the first round.  Would be idiotic to draft a TE/WR with our 1st.  But I’d rather it be Chase or trade down and get Waddle.  

It wasn’t a low bar for the Eagles.  They paid him 4 years and $52M and he never put up 850 yards in a season in PHI.  His last 2 years with the Bears was about the same — 800 yards and change, and he was a sought-after FA when the Eagles signed him.

I’ve said it many times before — the #6 overall pick would need to put up 80+ catches and 1,200+ yards consistently to warrant the pick.  That WR/TE/whatever would need to be the focal point of the offense, and it would be run through him — to the tune of at least 130 targets per year.  IMO Chase may be that guy, Pitts may be that guy — no one else in this draft class is that guy.

The bigger issue is there may not be a defensive player in this draft (nor any OL/DL other than Sewell) worth a top 12 pick so, while it’s fine to say don’t waste another first round pick on a pass catcher, is there any value at #6 other than Chase, Pitts, Sewell, QB?  Probably not — and a trade down requires not only a willing trade partner, but adequate compensation.

29 minutes ago, Khani1 said:

Let’s just say for ****’s and giggles, we did take Pitts at 6. What kinda of value would Goedert fetch in a trade?

Well, Howie puts it out there he’s getting traded so teams start calling with offers. Howie then counters with its going to take two firsts. Then Mort reports Goedert wants out but the price has to make sense. Then teams offer 1 first but Howie says now it’s 3 firsts. Now Schefty reports the Eagles are getting tons of calls about him and a trade is imminent. 3 months go by with no real new news. His market is now dead, teams have moved on to their plan B and we have to beg someone for a third. 

1 hour ago, Swoop said:

Willing to bet 99% of the fanbase that's pounding the table for Pitts never heard of him before this season.

Pitts wasn't an unknown prospect like Zach Wilson. Pitts was a 1st rounder heading into the year.

2 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

no he wasnt. he was the 3rd best tight end going into 2020. 

https://theathletic.com/1776836/2020/04/27/2021-mock-draft-another-receiver-heavy-first-round-with-quarterback-at-no-1/

There are tons of mock drafts the day after the 2020 draft with Pitts in RD1 in 2021.

Facts matter.

3 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

It wasn’t a low bar for the Eagles.  They paid him 4 years and $52M and he never put up 850 yards in a season in PHI.  His last 2 years with the Bears was about the same — 800 yards and change, and he was a sought-after FA when the Eagles signed him.

I’ve said it many times before — the #6 overall pick would need to put up 80+ catches and 1,200+ yards consistently to warrant the pick.  That WR/TE/whatever would need to be the focal point of the offense, and it would be run through him — to the tune of at least 130 targets per year.  IMO Chase may be that guy, Pitts may be that guy — no one else in this draft class is that guy.

The bigger issue is there may not be a defensive player in this draft (nor any OL/DL other than Sewell) worth a top 12 pick so, while it’s fine to say don’t waste another first round pick on a pass catcher, is there any value at #6 other than Chase, Pitts, Sewell, QB?  Probably not — and a trade down requires not only a willing trade partner, but adequate compensation.

I think both Smith and Waddle could be that type of player.  If Smith was 190 people would not be worried about his size. Smith isn't a gadget receiver. He is a skilled route runner that plays outside. He is a high volume pass catcher. Waddle could certainly be a Tyreek Hill type receiver.  He could certainly put up those types of numbers.  

41 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Why would you trade him ? Deep teams have 2  quality TEs 

I think this is especially true given that Goedert is a better blocker and an above average player at the position.  

5 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

no he wasnt. he was the 2nd/ 3rd best tight end going into 2020. 

Pitts didn't come out of nowhere.  He was talked about early on as the top prospect by far. 

I did some searching.  This is from the Eagles season thread, I posted on December 28.  I've been pounding this for months.  

Looking back at my original post.  Would you trade DG for a 2nd and 4th if Ertz comes back?

 

Posted December 28, 2020

Didn't realize that Goedert got hurt...again.  That's why we saw so much Ertz in the 2nd half.  At what point do we have to consider Goedert injury prone.  He has yet to not miss a chunk of games since being drafted.  He is going to command top dollar soon.  Is he worth it?

I've been on the trade Ertz bandwagon for a while now.  Maybe they need to look in to trading Goedert.  I think he's a much better tight end than Hayden Hurst.  Let's look at the trade the Falcons made:

Ravens get Falcons 2d and 5th round pick

Falcons get Hurst and Ravens 4th

There's no reason the Eagles can't get a 2nd and change for Goedert. Hurst was 26 when they traded him.  Goedert turns 26 next week.

If they are able to do that then I trade back in round 1, pick up another 2nd and maybe a 5th, then I take Florida TE Kyle Pitts who is a flat out stud who is also tremendous value in the middle of round 1.

That scenario gives you 3 2nd round picks.  That is a ton of ammo to start building a new young core, provided Howie isn't drafting.  

You're off the hook of extending Goedert.  Now the question is Zach Ertz.  Does he bring back a 3rd or 4th?  Would he swallow his pride and come back as a #2 tight end?  I think Dick Rod is more than capable as a #2 as well.

 

12 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I did some searching.  This is from the Eagles season thread, I posted on December 28.  I've been pounding this for months.  

Looking back at my original post.  Would you trade DG for a 2nd and 4th if Ertz comes back?

 

Posted December 28, 2020

Didn't realize that Goedert got hurt...again.  That's why we saw so much Ertz in the 2nd half.  At what point do we have to consider Goedert injury prone.  He has yet to not miss a chunk of games since being drafted.  He is going to command top dollar soon.  Is he worth it?

I've been on the trade Ertz bandwagon for a while now.  Maybe they need to look in to trading Goedert.  I think he's a much better tight end than Hayden Hurst.  Let's look at the trade the Falcons made:

Ravens get Falcons 2d and 5th round pick

Falcons get Hurst and Ravens 4th

There's no reason the Eagles can't get a 2nd and change for Goedert. Hurst was 26 when they traded him.  Goedert turns 26 next week.

If they are able to do that then I trade back in round 1, pick up another 2nd and maybe a 5th, then I take Florida TE Kyle Pitts who is a flat out stud who is also tremendous value in the middle of round 1.

That scenario gives you 3 2nd round picks.  That is a ton of ammo to start building a new young core, provided Howie isn't drafting.  

You're off the hook of extending Goedert.  Now the question is Zach Ertz.  Does he bring back a 3rd or 4th?  Would he swallow his pride and come back as a #2 tight end?  I think Dick Rod is more than capable as a #2 as well.

 

I would in a heartbeat.

8 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

I agree he didnt come out of no where.. He was a day 2 kid headed into last season. But he did go to "top 5" out of no where. 

Ah yes, it's so unheard of a prospect making the move from the 2nd round into the top end of the draft after a big year. Never happened before. 

Production wise, is Pitts a one year wonder, or a multi year producer?  What was his production against big schools vs smaller ones?  Can he even vaguely block and is he interested in doing it?  Talk is Sirinanni is big on WRs blocking to get game time, so tends to make me think that a TE like Pitts would need to do so too

 

Ertz and Goedert are not interchangeable. Ertz can't block in-line to save his life, he's a H-back in a TE's body.

Goedert is a true TE, plus blocker, plus receiver but lacks the speed to be a deep threat down the seam. Witten like TE, but durability is an issue.

Look for the Eagles to develop a backup TE to Goedert while also filling the H-back slot.

2 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

I agree he didnt come out of no where.. He was a day 2 kid headed into last season. But he did go to "top 5" out of no where. 

I think there were several that had him as the top TE.  On this site: https://sports.yahoo.com/early-top-25-prospects-for-the-2021-nfl-draft-trevor-lawrence-tops-the-list-but-other-q-bs-lurk-150718632.html he's ranked 18th best prospect. 

I mean I am not sure to what extent where the player is ranked at the end of 2019 matters. I mean Matt Barkley was thought to be a sure fire first round pick after his junior season.  He returned, played not great, and ended up as a 4th rounder.  Pitts' performance last season matters.  He is not moving up in the ranks based on nothing but based on an incredibly productive season.  The fact that he jumped in the rankings after a very good season is expected and makes sense.  

3 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I think there were several that had him as the top TE.  On this site: https://sports.yahoo.com/early-top-25-prospects-for-the-2021-nfl-draft-trevor-lawrence-tops-the-list-but-other-q-bs-lurk-150718632.html he's ranked 18th best prospect. 

I mean I am not sure to what extent where the player is ranked at the end of 2019 matters. I mean Matt Barkley was thought to be a sure fire first round pick after his junior season.  He returned, played not great, and ended up as a 4th rounder.  Pitts' performance last season matters.  He is not moving up in the ranks based on nothing but based on an incredibly productive season.  The fact that he jumped in the rankings after a very good season is expected and makes sense.  

Not to mention he has all the measurables it appears of an elite athlete. I think Bacarty is just one of those people who has to go against the popular opinion no matter what. 

That all being said, Pitts is not the right choice for us. Too many other issues to deal with. I think Cincy makes a ton of sense, as would Dallas if he drops to them. Cincy could address O line later in the draft, especially if Sewell is off the board.   

54 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

Giants are creating depth. Much improved tram. 

2 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

1) I dont want a TE or a RB in the first round EVER

2) I dont think the 50-60-70 picks that seperate Pitts from TE2 is worth it

3) We have Goedert

4) I think the NFL has moved on from the 12 

5) I think if Pat F or Brevin Jordan played with Trask/Toney they'd have stoooopid numbers too. 

Do you have reading comprehension issues? 

Top ten WRs from the last 10 drafts.  Lesson: pick them from the SEC.

1	4	Cincinnati Bengals	Green, AJ	Georgia
1	6	Atlanta Falcons	Jones, Julio	Alabama
1	5	Jacksonville Jaguars	Blackmon, Justin	Oklahoma State
1	8	St. Louis Rams	Austin, Tavon	West Virginia
1	4	Buffalo Bills	Watkins, Sammy	Clemson
1	7	TB Buccaneers	Evans, Mike	Texas A&M
1	4	Raiders	Cooper, Amari	Alabama
1	7	Chicago Bears	White, Kevin	West Virginia
1	5	Tennessee Titans	Davis, Corey	Western Michigan
1	7	Los Angeles Chargers	Williams, Mike	Clemson
1	9	Cincinnati Bengals	Ross, John	Washington

 

 

2 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Does any one know how/where the 17th game will come from? 

I heard(a while ago) they wanted a neutral site game vs a cross conference team, but that was a long time ago

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-owners-approve-formula-for-determining-potential-17th-game

New scheduling procedures with respect to the 17th regular-season game will "be an interconference match-up based on divisional standings" from the previous campaign, and "on a rotating divisional basis" in a fashion similar to current scheduling standards that annually see one AFC division play an entire NFC division, and so on. This change should mean the football-viewing world will see more marquee matchups across conferences that would traditionally be limited by the annual interconference divisional rotations.

This outcome would be ideal. We get Chase, but no questions about "passing on a franchise QB".

1 hour ago, Bacarty2 said:

Funny, I cant tell you the Packers 2nd tight end. Chiefs, no idea. Unsure of the Saints TE2. 

I want no parts of Pitts.  Tight end in the first round is so dumb

OJ Howard  and Gronk were Bucs 2 top TEs , and lots of 2 TE sets , OJ gets hurt , Brate comes in and they don’t miss a beat

deep teams have quality depth 

1 hour ago, Bacarty2 said:

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

So Eagles are gonna end up with... 

Jets / Cinncy / Jags 

All picking in the top-5 at the draft.

6 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Top ten WRs from the last 10 drafts.  Lesson: pick them from the SEC.

1	4	Cincinnati Bengals	Green, AJ	Georgia
1	6	Atlanta Falcons	Jones, Julio	Alabama
1	5	Jacksonville Jaguars	Blackmon, Justin	Oklahoma State
1	8	St. Louis Rams	Austin, Tavon	West Virginia
1	4	Buffalo Bills	Watkins, Sammy	Clemson
1	7	TB Buccaneers	Evans, Mike	Texas A&M
1	4	Raiders	Cooper, Amari	Alabama
1	7	Chicago Bears	White, Kevin	West Virginia
1	5	Tennessee Titans	Davis, Corey	Western Michigan
1	7	Los Angeles Chargers	Williams, Mike	Clemson
1	9	Cincinnati Bengals	Ross, John	Washington

 

 

Justin Blackmon. He was so good, then just completely vanished due to substance issues. Sad. 

38 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

Production wise, is Pitts a one year wonder, or a multi year producer?  What was his production against big schools vs smaller ones?  Can he even vaguely block and is he interested in doing it?  Talk is Sirinanni is big on WRs blocking to get game time, so tends to make me think that a TE like Pitts would need to do so too

 

Watch what Pitts did vs Bama and how Saban tried to double him. He knows quite a bit more than Bacarty, who keeps pushing nonsense about Kyle Trask and Toney propping up Pitts. Watch Pitts beat top corners flexed out to WR. He’s really good. 

2 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

So Eagles are gonna end up with... 

Jets / Cinncy / Jags 

I thought I saw somewhere we are going to play the Jets. 

Moore is a freak athlete. He's also 5'7.

I simultaneously want to draft him, but would be terrified to do so.