55 minutes ago, TEW said:

Generally I agree, with this part being the exception.

I think Howie actually is actually at his best with big moves, be it coaching changes or player personnel. He’s a big picture guy more so than anything else.

Landing Wentz was a big move that he facilitated. Pulling the plug on Wentz was another big move from which he managed to extract good value. Trading down from 6 to 12 was another big move, high value, but picture move.

It’s just my interpretation based off of comments from Lurie on why Doug was fired and the moves since then, but I do think Howie is in big move mode. There’s been three of them made so far between the coaching change, the Wentz trade and the trade down. I sincerely think he has at least two more big moves left in him. I think he tries to add at least one more premium pick for 2022 (a first or second) and I think in 2022 or 2023 we try to grab a franchise QB.

The little moves are nice, don’t get me wrong. It’s good to have a coaching staff more focused on player development. It’s good to increase the volume of draft picks so that we can get younger and turnover the roster. But this is a team that even the owner said was in a rebuilding phase. You don’t rebuild with tweaks and little moves. You rebuild with big, franchise altering moves like adding extra first round picks, changing coaches, and getting a good young QB.

You need at least 40 players to field a competitive team. Even with Howie's moves, over three years we're talking say 12 1st and 2nd day picks.

Sure you have some veterans, but most will be gone by 2023. So you have to fill out the roster with late round picks, UDFAs and SFAs.

Look at any playoff team, most of that 40 (22 starters, top reserves, top ST guys) aren't top picks or big trades.

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

Wouldn't shock me one bit.  Watch the Cowboys take Pitts and NYG take Rousseau.  

IMO falcons take pitts

1 hour ago, TEW said:

I think there’s a chance if he disappoints in his workouts.

TE is really not a high value position to any team. 

He already run a 4.46 and he isn't viewed as just a TE by most people. There are some rumors now he could go as early as 5 to the Bengals.

I am glad we likely cant take Pitts now

wr could still be in play

1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

You are undervaling TEs.  There is a reason the Patriots signed the top 2 in the market this year. Look at the recent Super Bowl teams and winners over the past decade.  Great TEs on those teams is one of the prevailing common strings.

It’s not me, it’s the league as a whole. And I’d remind you that BB usually takes his TEs in the 4th round...

3 hours ago, NVeagle said:

 I call him below average.

Based on prejudice or based on fact? If the former, I understand; if the latter I would need some proof.

54 minutes ago, austinfan said:

You need at least 40 players to field a competitive team. Even with Howie's moves, over three years we're talking say 12 1st and 2nd day picks.

Sure you have some veterans, but most will be gone by 2023. So you have to fill out the roster with late round picks, UDFAs and SFAs.

Look at any playoff team, most of that 40 (22 starters, top reserves, top ST guys) aren't top picks or big trades.

Yeah, but not all 40 players are created equally. You high impact players on both sides of the ball. It’s not the bottom of the roster that decides your season. It’s the QBs, star lineman, etc. and they do tend to be high picks.

We'll take a conventional TE on the 3rd day, and some fliers late/UDFA. We already have a bunch of H-back conversions on the roster.

If Pitts fell to 12th they'd snatch him up, but remember, Johnson had a first hand look at Pitts in Florida - so I'm sure they talked to him about Pitts.

Just now, TEW said:

Yeah, but not all 40 players are created equally. You high impact players on both sides of the ball. It’s not the bottom of the roster that decides your season. It’s the QBs, star lineman, etc. and they do tend to be high picks.

Actually it's both, your stars create mismatches for you, but if you don't find good depth, that creates mismatches for your opponents.

Just look at the dropoff when Driscoll got injured, and he was a guard prospect forced into action at RT (arms too short for OT). But compared to Pryor and Toth . . .

Or look at our CBs getting burned.

 

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

Actually it's both, your stars create mismatches for you, but if you don't find good depth, that creates mismatches for your opponents.

Just look at the dropoff when Driscoll got injured, and he was a guard prospect forced into action at RT (arms too short for OT). But compared to Pryor and Toth . . .

Or look at our CBs getting burned.

 

The impact of the top of your roster is magnitudes greater than the bottom, which is exactly why injuries to key players are so impactful.

They’re key players for a reason.

12 is an interesting spot to be. Many options.

Horn looks like great value there. Surtain too. And God knows the Eagles could use an infusion of talent at CB.

Another trade down is also possible.

Zaven Collins might be one of my favorite players in this draft. He's got great size, speed, and instincts. He'd be available more than likely in late teens to early 20s. Keep hearing comparisons to Urlacherzzz lol

 

21 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

He already run a 4.46 and he isn't viewed as just a TE by most people. There are some rumors now he could go as early as 5 to the Bengals.

Could happen, but I doubt it. There will be at least 3 QBs in the top 5, maybe 4, and most likely an OT.

Just now, Iggles25 said:

12 is an interesting spot to be. Many options.

Horn looks like great value there. Surtain too. And God knows the Eagles could use an infusion of talent at CB.

Another trade down is also possible.

Zaven Collins might be one of my favorite players in this draft. He's got great size, speed, and instincts. He'd be available more than likely in late teens to early 20s. Keep hearing comparisons to Urlacherzzz lol

 

This is what I hope for, and have a sneaking suspicion will happen.

The WIP crowd is going to lose their minds, but ultimately I think it will be the right move.

36 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Actually it's both, your stars create mismatches for you, but if you don't find good depth, that creates mismatches for your opponents.

Just look at the dropoff when Driscoll got injured, and he was a guard prospect forced into action at RT (arms too short for OT). But compared to Pryor and Toth . . .

Or look at our CBs getting burned.

 

Tampa’s starting D has

1st rd picks =4

2nd rd picks = 4

3rd rd =1

4th rd = 1

undrafted =1

 

jpp = trade

suh = fa

shaq fa  

8 others draft picks 

 

offense

1st rd = 3

2nd rd =5

3rd rd = 1

6th rd =2

12 minutes ago, TEW said:

This is what I hope for, and have a sneaking suspicion will happen.

The WIP crowd is going to lose their minds, but ultimately I think it will be the right move.

As always, it depends on who’s on the board, how far we fall, who we end up taking and what the compensation is. 

Ideally it would be a small trade down with an overpay for a team looking to take someone like Mac Jones. 

22 minutes ago, TEW said:

The impact of the top of your roster is magnitudes greater than the bottom, which is exactly why injuries to key players are so impactful.

They’re key players for a reason.

Which is why you use top picks on those guys, but one reason Cleveland stagnated for almost a decade was their failure to fill out the roster with the back of the draft and FAs.

You can have an all pro LT, but if your center and RG can't pass block, it ain't gonna make a lick of difference.

1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

I didn’t change this avatar for my health, people .....

Pitts will be there at 12

no way he gets passed the Cowboys

7 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Which is why you use top picks on those guys, but one reason Cleveland stagnated for almost a decade was their failure to fill out the roster with the back of the draft and FAs.

You can have an all pro LT, but if your center and RG can't pass block, it ain't gonna make a lick of difference.

The reason Cleveland has sucked so long is their failure to find a good player for the highest impact player on the field: a QB.

19 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Tampa’s starting D has

1st rd picks =4

2nd rd picks = 4

3rd rd =1

4th rd = 1

undrafted =1

 

jpp = trade

suh = fa

shaq fa  

8 others draft picks 

Tampa Bay is a gross outlier, they missed the playoffs 7 straight season, that helps when you're drafting a team.

However, Miller WR #208-19, Nunez-Roches DT, waivers 2018, Gohlston DT #126-13, Whitehead S #117-19, Barrett OLB SFA 2019 ($1M)

And backups:  Adams SS, waivers 2018, Nassib DE, waivers 2018, Fournette RB, SFA 2020, Haeg T, SFA 2020, T Johnson WR #161-2020, Auclair TE, UDFA 2017, Cockrell CB SFA 2020, Watson WR #144-2018, Brate TE SFA 2016, and so on

4 minutes ago, TEW said:

The reason Cleveland has sucked so long is their failure to find a good player for the highest impact player on the field: a QB.

Lot's of teams with the kind of talent they've drafted have made do with so-so QBs, Cleveland has something like 1 of 17 third day picks play a major roster role over a 4 or 5 year period. Just awful roster development.

11 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Lot's of teams with the kind of talent they've drafted have made do with so-so QBs, Cleveland has something like 1 of 17 third day picks play a major roster role over a 4 or 5 year period. Just awful roster development.

Sure, which starts at QB.

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Tampa Bay is a gross outlier, they missed the playoffs 7 straight season, that helps when you're drafting a team.

However, Miller WR #208-19, Nunez-Roches DT, waivers 2018, Gohlston DT #126-13, Whitehead S #117-19, Barrett OLB SFA 2019 ($1M)

And backups:  Adams SS, waivers 2018, Nassib DE, waivers 2018, Fournette RB, SFA 2020, Haeg T, SFA 2020, T Johnson WR #161-2020, Auclair TE, UDFA 2017, Cockrell CB SFA 2020, Watson WR #144-2018, Brate TE SFA 2016, and so on

Was longer than 7 years 

and Nassib plays for raiders not Bucs 

1 hour ago, Iggles25 said:

12 is an interesting spot to be. Many options.

Horn looks like great value there. Surtain too. And God knows the Eagles could use an infusion of talent at CB.

Another trade down is also possible.

Zaven Collins might be one of my favorite players in this draft. He's got great size, speed, and instincts. He'd be available more than likely in late teens to early 20s. Keep hearing comparisons to Urlacherzzz lol

 

I wouldn’t rule out a trade up either, depending on how the board falls. They could jump NY/Dallas without giving up a lot and still keeping their 2022 1st’s 

Listening to Solak and I found it interesting that Horn didn’t really play zone at South Carolina. His traits are great though, and I’d still love him at 12. 

Horn would be a heck of a pick at  12 , maybe 

Marshall rd 2

Myers rd 3

Dbl dip at WO and Collins in rd 4

Sterns in 5

Elerson Smith rd 6