2 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

If Smith and Waddle are there at 12, who would you prefer? (assuming they plan to take one of them. Also intrigued by Slater and one of the CBs here).

Waddle. That’s an easy choice and I’d be happy with Smith. 
 

Waddle just looks so much like OBJ in his prime but maybe half a step faster. 

2 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Side note... 

Barnett is just this decade’s Mike Patterson. 

Drafted at 13 instead of 31.  Patterson also never missed games, didn’t have a knack for yellow laundry, and played a position where a grinder makes sense...not RDE which the 4-3 is built around for disruption.  
 

But I see the comparison in playing style and totally agree.

Patterson was interesting in that he was misdrafted as a "baby Sapp” or Aaron Donald type...short, quick, penetrating 1 gap fireplug.  He was a bad liability in his first 2 years and was routinely blown up off the LOS.  
 

Then he gained an enormous amount of weight and just became a stationary run stopping fire hydrant who was a simply OK starter who stayed healthy and stuck in the lineup for a long time.  
 

 

5 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

If Smith and Waddle are there at 12, who would you prefer? (assuming they plan to take one of them. Also intrigued by Slater and one of the CBs here).

Smith is the more natural WR. Smooth. Runs with his head completely still so he can track the ball while running full speed. Better hands. Better route runner. 
 

Waddle is slightly faster. That’s it. And weighs 13 pounds more. 
 

If you want a WR, Smith is your guy. If you want a speedster one trick pony to get open in space, take Waddle. Waddle is shorter and weighs slightly more, so some say he’ll get injured less easily. Could be true. But one is fast in a straight line and one is a natural WR. 

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Drafted at 13 instead of 31.  Patterson also never missed games, didn’t have a knack for yellow laundry, and played a position where a grinder makes sense...not RDE which the 4-3 is built around for disruption.  
 

But I see the comparison in playing style and totally agree.

Patterson was interesting in that he was misdrafted as a "baby Sapp” or Aaron Donald type...short, quick, penetrating 1 gap fireplug.  He was a bad liability in his first 2 years and was routinely blown up off the LOS.  
 

Then he gained an enormous amount of weight and just became a stationary run stopping fire hydrant who was a simply OK starter who stayed healthy and stuck in the lineup for a long time.  
 

 

Will never forget his fumble return TD while I was pounding Lions Head.

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Drafted at 13 instead of 31.  Patterson also never missed games, didn’t have a knack for yellow laundry, and played a position where a grinder makes sense...not RDE which the 4-3 is built around for disruption.  
 

But I see the comparison in playing style and totally agree.

Patterson was interesting in that he was misdrafted as a "baby Sapp” or Aaron Donald type...short, quick, penetrating 1 gap fireplug.  He was a bad liability in his first 2 years and was routinely blown up off the LOS.  
 

Then he gained an enormous amount of weight and just became a stationary run stopping fire hydrant who was a simply OK starter who stayed healthy and stuck in the lineup for a long time.  
 

 

I believe Patterson got like a 6 year contract at one point? Him and Bunkley definitely underachieved as a DT duo.
 

Dang I remember that run D being so frustrating. The Saints running the 8 minute drill with Deuce McCallister still gives me anxiety. 

Oh and Dhani Jones was the SAM LB when he should have been WILL... that’s a pointless thing to worry about in today’s game but in 2006 it was. 
 

One of the more frustrating draft picks of that era was Chris Gocong. The guy had like 20+ sacks at Cal Poly and the Eagles wanted to make him a SAM linebacker. The dude’s number 1 asset was rushing the passer and the Eagles never used him for that. Freak athlete. Crazy. 

7 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Oh and Dhani Jones was the SAM LB when he should have been WILL... that’s a pointless thing to worry about in today’s game but in 2006 it was. 
 

One of the more frustrating draft picks of that era was Chris Gocong. The guy had like 20+ sacks at Cal Poly and the Eagles wanted to make him a SAM linebacker. The dude’s number 1 asset was rushing the passer and the Eagles never used him for that. Freak athlete. Crazy. 

Right before Moise Fokou took the SAM spot lol

8 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

Right before Moise Fokou took the SAM spot lol

That’s an Eagle that I completely forgot existed

i remember using him on one of those old NFL mobile games. I used to average like 9 sacks a game. not even exaggerating. I think it might of been more. 

31 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Different talent level, but the cautionary tale here is Chris Gocong.  All time NCAA sack leader (albeit a small school).  Very good athlete, not Parsons level.  
 

He was supposed to come in as a SAM who would allow JJ to just wreak havoc with creative blitzes.  
 

He ended up being a very good run stopping SAM for a couple years with zero impact on the pass rush.  Even JJ couldn’t really figure out how to get a 4-3 LB that consistently involved in the pass rush to become a true threat.  

I take issue with that. If you think back to the Patriots game during their perfect regular season, Gocong was the best player on the field and did wreak havoc. This was one of the very few games where JJ schemed Gocong to do this though. But when he did it, it worked.

The cautionary tale here isn’t that a good DC can’t figure out how to use a talented player. It’s that they won’t use him in that way even if they know how because they’re married to their system.

And this goes back to another issue a GM has to deal with: it doesn’t matter how talented a player is if the coach doesn’t like the guy or won’t utilize him to maximum value.

This is why I roll my eyes when people are quick to place all the blame of the draft on Howie, as if he’s sitting in a tower making the picks with no influence from anyone else. The coaches are playing a huge part in who gets selected. And for good reason — you need the GM and coaches to be on the same page or the players are going to be set up to fail from day one.

For instance, you and I are both very high on young, raw, huge, uber athletic DEs. But if the coaches want shorter, compact guys who are good at anchoring against the run, you’re running a risk that the uber athletes get frozen out of the lineup because the coach doesn’t like them.

The counter example has been Stoutland. He’s shown a real preference for physical attributes, and Howie has obliged with guys ranging from Lane Johnson to Jordan Mailata.

So I really think we need to consider the coach preferences when evaluating why player A over player B was selected. You can’t pick players no matter how good you think they will be if the coaches don’t want them.

I can make a case for Waddle. The cool thing is, if we drafted Jaylon Waddle, we’d have Jalen throwing you Jalen and Jaylon. And Waddle probably fits Hurts better than Smith does, because Hurts isn’t a timing QB that would utilize Smith’s route running. Waddle could get him some RAC yards and stretch defenses vertically, which opens up running lanes for him and he throws a good deep ball. 

17 minutes ago, Dwide Schrude said:

That’s an Eagle that I completely forgot existed

i remember using him on one of those old NFL mobile games. I used to average like 9 sacks a game. not even exaggerating. I think it might of been more. 

There’s so many that I’ve since forgotten until I went back to look. Abiamiri, Laws, Kalu being a few. Also completely forgot about the Demetress Bell debacle.

1 hour ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Oh and Dhani Jones was the SAM LB when he should have been WILL... that’s a pointless thing to worry about in today’s game but in 2006 it was. 
 

One of the more frustrating draft picks of that era was Chris Gocong. The guy had like 20+ sacks at Cal Poly and the Eagles wanted to make him a SAM linebacker. The dude’s number 1 asset was rushing the passer and the Eagles never used him for that. Freak athlete. Crazy. 

Yup not sure why they ever drafted fixing unless after seeing him in camo at DE that's not going  to work so well try him at SAM.

He was good at the point and in run defense but in pass coverage he always looked out of place and JJ rarely blitzed him. 

When he went to cleveland in a 34 D theyoved him around at OLB and ILB and he played well before tearing up his knee, should have never been in a 43.

Too many square pegs back then, was frustrating.

10 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

Jets are taking Wilson, they are in the same position as SanFran, the 1st pick is locked in so they have no reason to play games with the #2 pick. Heck Howie moved down in the draft because he realized he had no shot at trading up for Wilson.

And how do we know that the Jets are taking Wilson and not Fields?

19 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

And how do we know that the Jets are taking Wilson and not Fields?

Aside from every news outlet in the business, because if Jets were taking Fields, Howie would not have traded down, he inquired about trading up for Wilson and was told no chance.

so tonight I decided to put together a first round mock, thought I’d have some fun with trades. I paid the $30 annual fee to be a member on The Draft Network, it’s been worth it for sure when it comes to making a mock draft. But tonight, it got a little ridiculous.

I was up with Falcons at 4, I decided to have Carolina trade up from 8 to 4 with Atlanta. I know trading with a division rival especially in the top 10 knowing you’re basically handing your rival their franchise QB is absurd. But so was the amount of draft capital I tried to give up. Also Benjamin Allbright made a good point that isn’t it a good idea to stick your rival with a player you don’t think is all that great while taking future assets from them as well. 
 

anyways, started off with a #8, 2022 1st & 2021 3rd, seemed reasonable to me for moving up 4 spots in top 10. Nope, not in this simulation. After continuously getting denied for amazing offers, I said F it & gave up every Carolina Panthers draft pick from 2021 thru 2025. STILL DENIED. Here’s pic for proof. 
 

one of the most underrated DBs in the draft 
 

PFF Draft

 

Jamar Johnson across 406 coverage snaps at Indiana

 

Targets: 44

 

TDs allowed: 0

 

INTs: 7

7 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Different talent level, but the cautionary tale here is Chris Gocong.  All time NCAA sack leader (albeit a small school).  Very good athlete, not Parsons level.  
 

He was supposed to come in as a SAM who would allow JJ to just wreak havoc with creative blitzes.  
 

He ended up being a very good run stopping SAM for a couple years with zero impact on the pass rush.  Even JJ couldn’t really figure out how to get a 4-3 LB that consistently involved in the pass rush to become a true threat.  

Eh, I see no comparison at all.  Parsons is built for the 4-3.  He can play any LB position.  

Gocong was a college DE at a small school who excelled at rushing the passer.  That was his strength and the main reason he was a draftable player.  He was an ideal 3-4 OLB.  It was infuriating the Eagles took him and then asked him to cover LB and pretty much taking away his best skillset which was rushing the passer.  It was one of the worst cases of trying to put a square peg in a round hole.  Not only did he not fit, he fit PERFECT in a different role. 

Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah is going to be a stud in the NFL. Whoever drafts him is getting a playmaker on defense.

6 hours ago, TEW said:

I take issue with that. If you think back to the Patriots game during their perfect regular season, Gocong was the best player on the field and did wreak havoc. This was one of the very few games where JJ schemed Gocong to do this though. But when he did it, it worked.

The cautionary tale here isn’t that a good DC can’t figure out how to use a talented player. It’s that they won’t use him in that way even if they know how because they’re married to their system.

It was maddening to watch.  I mean finally, Gocong was allowed to do what he did best and he was a beast only to go back to covering tight ends the next week.  I still think if Baltimore or Pittsburgh drafted Gocong he would have been a Pro Bowler.

 

I know we've discussed Nick Bolton a little bit here and he didn't test off the charts but man he is fun to watch.  He's got instincts and no hesitation when he sees the ball.  I think 37 is too high for him but another guy who would help this team. 

Height: 6’0” Weight: 237 lbs.
Bench Press: 24 | Arm Length: 31 7/8” | Hands: 10 3/8”
40 Yard Dash: 4.59 | 3 Cone Drill: 7.40 | 20 Yard Shuttle: 4.50

 

It's really not hard.

Get the scouts, personnel people and the coaches on the same page, that is, make sure people communicate and are clear about what they're looking for and at, the Gocong pick is a perfect example, good scouting, value pick, but not for the Eagles - and the scouts should have evaluated his movement skills, does he have the ability to move to SLB like Emmons (which I think is where they got the idea, Emmons was a 3-4 OLB at Pittsburgh who they converted to SAM and had a fine career).

If Gannon wants tall DL and long CBs, then move the shorter guys down and the taller guys up the board - doesn't mean you take short guys off, what is a so-so fit in the late first round could be a steal if he falls to the 3rd round.

Coaching matters, almost every OL picked has worked out with Mudd and Stoutland at OC (except Watkins, but that was a scouting failure, didn't do their homework on his psyche), but how many DBs?

If the board is properly set, then Howie's job is easy, move up and down to maximize value working off the board. If the scouts and coaches can't get on the same page, then Howie is left to guess (my scouts rave about this guy but my HC will never start him).

25 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah is going to be a stud in the NFL. Whoever drafts him is getting a playmaker on defense.

Where does he play though?  I posted about him yesterday.  ND pro day tomorrow is going to be exciting.

There was the same conversation about Simmons last year , stud college play , where do you play him in the nfl , and he had a bad rookie year .

Interested in how Hawkins , McNeil and Mond  do today

 

Werner too , I know Browning gets the love , but I prefer Werner