7 minutes ago, Utebird said:

What's with all these dudes jumping through the roof, 42 vert is nuts for a guy weighing 234 lbs and 11 broad these guys should be playing basketball no?

Pretty impressive 40 eve. If you add 5 tenths to its a 4.46 which is moving for a guy at 234.

Now the question is go to the tape is he an explosive athlete on tape?

Does he run side line to side line can he change direction, can he diagnose and shed and tackle can he drop his hips and cover how's his back pedal and coverage awareness? Or is he just a 234 lb guy that can run and jump?

 

No he pops when you watch him , not shocked by his explosion 

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

This is exactly  why we need to address the secondary and defensive line.  Because we can't stop anyone in the air. 

 

Also, elite talent or dominant athletes do not win games in the NFL.  Elite units and good football teams do.  Jadeveon Clowney was an elite talent.  He's a bona fide LOSER!   You think we have the tools to work with along the O-line.  I don't.  Not even close.  We are old and beat up on the O line.  We are old at the D line and underwhelming at the DE spot.  The Eagles don't normally invest high draft picks in pass catchers.  I don't want them to make that same mistake again.  They need build the foundation and then add the accent pieces later.  

 

I'll take multiple good players over one elite one any day.  When was the last time an elite pass catcher was the reason why a team won the SB?  When I say ELITE.  I mean top 5 in yards for that season.  Not top 15.  They win SB because of the QB's being upright and they are able to stop other teams in the air.  

 

And as long as we are on the topic of ELITE talent.  That is why I have been arguing a trade down scenario all along.  Because this draft is sorely lacking ELITE talent in the top half of the 1st.  Maybe that's because of opt outs or just a 1 year anomaly.  If there was a Nick Bosa, Chase Young, Myles Garret, Joey Bosa, Kahlil Mack in this draft then I would be dead set against trading down.  But there is Lawrence, Sewell and then everyone else.  I do not agree that Chase or Pitts are in that "ELITE" category.  And even if Pitts was, I would still be steadfast against drafting him in the top half of the 1st round.  Generational center pieces at that spot.  Not tight ends who may or may not be able to play WR at times. 

 

Or trade down and get multiple good players.    

 

If we can draft Horn at 12, I would be ecstatic.  Or we can watch Avonte Maddox chase after Amari Cooper for another season.  

-Clowney is a loser point blank.  Has nothing to do with if he's elite or not, he's just a loser.  Neither Chase or Pitts have shown any traits to make me think the are anywhere near the D-Bag he is.

-This draft is sorely lacking elite defensive talent....like all of the guys you mentioned.  

- We will disagree.  Chase is ELITE.  at 19 he owned the SEC at WR.  Pitts is ELITE.  His measurements alone put him on another level.  If you go back and look at my posts talking about why I think so you'll see that one of his elite traits is his wing span and catch radius....that's something you just can't coach.  He's going to be a QB's best friend.  I don't care what his position is, he's an elite athlete and elite talent.

-We have 10 more picks to get multiple good players.

-Give me Greg Newsome at 37.  CB2 day 1. 

Would be nice to have a WR of Coopers status on the team to make other teams CB look bad....

 

 

12 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

This is exactly  why we need to address the secondary and defensive line.  Because we can't stop anyone in the air. 

 

Also, elite talent or dominant athletes do not win games in the NFL.  Elite units and good football teams do.  Jadeveon Clowney was an elite talent.  He's a bona fide LOSER!   You think we have the tools to work with along the O-line.  I don't.  Not even close.  We are old and beat up on the O line.  We are old at the D line and underwhelming at the DE spot.  The Eagles don't normally invest high draft picks in pass catchers.  I don't want them to make that same mistake again.  They need build the foundation and then add the accent pieces later.  

 

I'll take multiple good players over one elite one any day.  When was the last time an elite pass catcher was the reason why a team won the SB?  When I say ELITE.  I mean top 5 in yards for that season.  Not top 15.  They win SB because of the QB's being upright and they are able to stop other teams in the air.  

 

And as long as we are on the topic of ELITE talent.  That is why I have been arguing a trade down scenario all along.  Because this draft is sorely lacking ELITE talent in the top half of the 1st.  Maybe that's because of opt outs or just a 1 year anomaly.  If there was a Nick Bosa, Chase Young, Myles Garret, Joey Bosa, Kahlil Mack in this draft then I would be dead set against trading down.  But there is Lawrence, Sewell and then everyone else.  I do not agree that Chase or Pitts are in that "ELITE" category.  And even if Pitts was, I would still be steadfast against drafting him in the top half of the 1st round.  Generational center pieces at that spot.  Not tight ends who may or may not be able to play WR at times. 

 

Or trade down and get multiple good players.    

 

If we can draft Horn at 12, I would be ecstatic.  Or we can watch Avonte Maddox chase after Amari Cooper for another season.  

I think good corners can be had after the 1st round.

The league rules automatically set corners up to fail, the league is all about pasdi g and scoring and corners are at a distinct disadvantage.

Recent history has shown one doesn't need elite or first round or high pid corners to win.

In 2017 eagles won allocating the least amount of money to corner.

The chiefs won with average corners.

The bucs top 3 corners were two second rounders and a 3rd rounder.

I think the best team value for corner in today's high flying league is 2nd- 3rd round.

Though I have zero faith that howie can actually identify any good ones there.☹️

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Five tenths would put him at 4.91. I'm beginning to like Micah Parsons. Anyone else like him?

Math isn't my strong suit, 5 100ths?

 

5 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Five tenths would put him at 4.91. I'm beginning to like Micah Parsons. Anyone else like him?

I like Parsons but reports suggest he's kind of an entitled D.

Also I don't like that all his tackles seem to be drag down he's not really an explosive hitter which seems odd as he's so explosive.

Not that any of it matters as Howie would never draft a LB I the first so...

 

5 minutes ago, Giddyunc said:

Personally, I think he comps closer to Aaron Rodgers. He does have an amazing ability to throw off-platform, so I understand the Mahomes comparison though.

 Who knows how Mahomes turns out if he goes to Denver, same for Paxton Lynch if he goes to KC when Andy wanted him. 
 Way too many people think Kiper and Greg Cosell blame the teams when one of their highly rated guys fail in the NFL, but they do have a point, you can only go on what the player showed at the college level, it’s up to the teams coaching staff to bring out and use that talent correctly. 
 Go back and look Mahomes at TT or Rodgers at Cal, both guys had red flags, Mahomes was Favre jr, and Rodgers in the pocket didn’t even carry the football right.  Both guys sat behind starters, and then both became the best at their positions because of coaching.  
 Btw, the comparison to Mahomes is fine, Rodgers didn’t have a cannon coming out of college like he did 5-6 years ago.  Mahomes, Allen, and Wilson can make throws no other QB’s can right out of school. 
 

4 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Math isn't my strong suit, 5 100ths?

It's the pedant in me, I can't help myself.

24 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I've also heard trey Lance to mcnabb when he came into the league. 

I wont believe that comparison until I see Lance play air guitar

 

2 minutes ago, The Blackfish said:

 Who knows how Mahomes turns out if he goes to Denver, same for Paxton Lynch if he goes to KC when Andy wanted him. 
 Way too many people think Kiper and Greg Cosell blame the teams when one of their highly rated guys fail in the NFL, but they do have a point, you can only go on what the player showed at the college level, it’s up to the teams coaching staff to bring out and use that talent correctly. 
 Go back and look Mahomes at TT or Rodgers at Cal, both guys had red flags, Mahomes was Favre jr, and Rodgers in the pocket didn’t even carry the football right.  Both guys sat behind starters, and then both became the best at their positions because of coaching.  
 Btw, the comparison to Mahomes is fine, Rodgers didn’t have a cannon coming out of college like he did 5-6 years ago.  Mahomes, Allen, and Wilson can make throws no other QB’s can right out of school. 
 

Not disagreeing with anything you said, but the reason that Wilson is comparable to Aaron Rodgers is his overall smoothness. Both QBs move both inside and outside the pocket with very little footwork. Their steps are deliberate and precise. For comparison, Wentz (and I'm a Wentz fan) is the opposite. When manipulating the pocket, Wentz takes a lot of unnecessary, unsure steps. Even when he's out of the pocket, if you watch his feet, you'd think his mind is going 100 mph. Russell Wilson's feet are actually similar to Wentz's, but he has an ungodly ability to make it work. 

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

The Chiefs won with a generational QB.  The Bucs won because of the best QB of all time and a virtual dream team on defense.  Until we get a HOF QB then we would need to build the team up around whoever the next QB is. 

I agree and I think the best way to do that is by getting corners after the 1st round.

I think at 12 if one cant get a generational talent goes with the traditional thinking of building a team.

QB, OL, DL.

I'm almost certain eagles so t draft a QB.

I don't think there is an OL worthy of 12 other than Sewell and he'll be gone by then, I think 12 is too high for a tweener like slater and also I think OL is lower on the need lust than other positions including DL 

Where as at DL I think Paye or Phillips would be if good value at 12, I have mixed feelings about Rosseau, he tested poorly in some tests.

Round 2 at 37 there should still be some good corners or even safeties that are comparable in talent ability and potential to those in the 1st that simply dropped because 6 qbs were taken in the first🤔

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great thread on the validity of the 40 times

TLDR version: maybe.02-.03 off at most 

6 minutes ago, Giddyunc said:

Not disagreeing with anything you said, but the reason that Wilson is comparable to Aaron Rodgers is his overall smoothness. Both QBs move both inside and outside the pocket with very little footwork. Their steps are deliberate and precise. For comparison, Wentz (and I'm a Wentz fan) is the opposite. When manipulating the pocket, Wentz takes a lot of unnecessary, unsure steps. Even when he's out of the pocket, if you watch his feet, you'd think his mind is going 100 mph. Russell Wilson's feet are actually similar to Wentz's, but he has an ungodly ability to make it work. 

Yup bill walsh used to always say he watched a qbs feet and that it was like a dance in the pocket, he'd say montana had ballet feet,

Where as when I watched Wentz feet in and out of the pocket it was more like this.

 

 

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

Yup bill walsh used to always say he watched a qbs feet and that it was like a dance in the pocket, he'd say montana had ballet feet,

Where as when I watched Wentz feet in and out of the pocket it was more like this.

 

 

Yep. The feet give us an indication of how well the QB is processing the field. It's literally a window into his mind. 

3 minutes ago, Giddyunc said:

Yep. The feet give us an indication of how well the QB is processing the field. It's literally a window into his mind. 

Having said that I like hurts feet in the pocket, he's not hectic or panicked, every movement seems calm and deliberate.

We'll see how that translates but watching hurts in and out of the pocket doesn't give me anxiety like Wentz did.

Same for Zach Wilson, he's a smooth operator.

30 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

These guys partied the whole way through college. Don't give me that horseshit.

JOK , small as expected ?little heavier though

 

Matt Miller

 

@nfldraftscout

Don't forget about @j_owuu today. 6'1" 221 lbs 33" arms 78 1/8" wing 10'4" broad j

17 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup bill walsh used to always say he watched a qbs feet and that it was like a dance in the pocket, he'd say montana had ballet feet,

Where as when I watched Wentz feet in and out of the pocket it was more like this.

 

 

 

 

Davis put together 

1 hour ago, Original Sin said:

4.41 forty for Jamin Davis
woW

4.37 sec run

late first rd pick 

Damn. I should never get excited about a linebacker here but was hoping he'd last to the 2nd

There are too many off the ball LBs (Parsons, JOK, Collins, Davis) for one of them not to fall to our pick in RD2. 4 off the ball LBs are just not going in the 1st round with the run on the OL that will happen.

Collins would be better suited in a 34 IMO 

And  I wouldn’t be shocked if Parsons  , Collins , Davis and JOK all go first rd

3 minutes ago, greend said:

 

Yup Wentz definitely has some highlights especially before last year and his tape from last year is brutal including watching his indecisive scattered feet in and out of the pocket.

Some of that can be attributed to coaching and supporting cast and if he played last year like he did in the above video he'd still be here.

Oh well it is what it is, onward and upward.