15 minutes ago, downundermike said:

???? Is the 6 additional pounds Bobby Wagner weighs really that big of a deal ??   Darius Leondard weighs 230, Erik Kendricks 232.  Not sure what you expect them to weigh.

Apparently if they're not Levon Kirkland they're no good😒

2 minutes ago, CaliEagle said:

LSU's Terrace Marshall said the Eagles are expressing a lot of interest.  I think that is their target for Round 2, but they probably will have to trade up to the end of the 1st to get him. I don't think we will take a WR in Round 1, even if Smith or Waddle are there.  

The eagles have so many needs it's tough for me to pin down which position to pick.

There could be some good corners LBs and safeties in the second as well as WRs.

And the eagles need all 4 and then some.

 

 

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

The eagles have so many needs it's tough for me to pin down which position to pick.

There could be some good corners LBs and safeties in the second as well as WRs.

And the eagles need all 4 and then some.

 

 

Yep. And, they need to find a pro bowl caliber player because they haven't done that since Wentz and Cox.  Yep, they have so many holes, especially on defense.  

QB 1 

4 minutes ago, CaliEagle said:

Yep. And, they need to find a pro bowl caliber player because they haven't done that since Wentz and Cox.  Yep, they have so many holes, especially on defense.  

Yup the back 7 on defense is pretty barren and the D line is getting old.

Howie missing on corner a few years back and failing to ever address safety coupled with never valuing LB has amounted to a whole lot of nothing on the back 7.

I don't trust Howie to fix but I hope he has the common sense to attempt to 

5 minutes ago, Utebird said:

The eagles have so many needs it's tough for me to pin down which position to pick.

There could be some good corners LBs and safeties in the second as well as WRs.

And the eagles need all 4 and then some.

 

 

This is why every pick needs to be BPA - just add talent and worry about position holes later.

3 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

This is why every pick needs to be BPA - just add talent and worry about position holes later.

Yup I agree and how Howie reaches a consensus on BPA is the key.

I mean there will be a bunch of guys at 37 who are comparable in talent regardless of position so how does one decide if the corner or LB or WR of equal or comparable talent  is the BPA.

I don't know Howie's exact method of determination seems in the past they don't either so it will be I retesting to see what happens.

10 minutes ago, Utebird said:

The eagles have so many needs it's tough for me to pin down which position to pick.

There could be some good corners LBs and safeties in the second as well as WRs.

And the eagles need all 4 and then some.

 

 

The simple answer is: BPA.  There is literally no position on the team that isnt in need of upgrades and has any type of long term plan in place, not one.

 

So, the "simple" answer is to rate all prospects according to how they fit the new offensive/defensive systems and merely pick the highest rated one when the time comes, or better yet, take the best offer on the table to move back a bit and roll some more picks to the 2022 draft.

4 hours ago, eagle45 said:

If Howie gets Waddle or Pitts at 12 with an extra first in hand, I will be the first to gush over him.  
 

If he gets Smith...not a prospect that is really my type, but it’s good value and I’ll tip my cap.

Paye or a CB?  Meh...wait and see, won’t bash, but not excited.  Don’t see either scenario there as someone who has a chance to change much for the franchise.  
 

I think Paye is quite overrated, but checks a lot of boxes for what the Eagles look for in a draft pick.

This is exactly how I feel. I would be sick if the pick ends up being Paye. 

3 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup I agree and how Howie reaches a consensus on BPA is the key.

I mean there will be a bunch of guys at 37 who are comparable in talent regardless of position so how does one decide if the corner or LB or WR of equal or comparable talent  is the BPA.

I don't know Howie's exact method of determination seems in the past they don't either so it will be I retesting to see what happens.

If that is the result, equally rated players at multiple positions, the answer is trade back.  If that is not an option, then identify the position of higher priority/greatest impact.  For example, an OL would play 100% of the snaps, whereas a LB would likely play only 2 out of every 3 downs.   Or the one who has the closest to the ideal measurables... or best interviews... or loves "ball" the most.

1 minute ago, AzBirdGang said:

This is exactly how I feel. I would be sick if the pick ends up being Paye. 

I like Paye, I think he's an over looked athlete.

The miami guys get a lot of pub and Late has comparable or better testing and comparable production and is better against the run than both.

He's a high character high motor player as well.

I'd be fine with Paye at 12, I think good DL add more value to teams than good WRs or good CBs.

Having said that if they pick a WR or CB or a by some crazy chance a LB at 12 I won't be mad.

As long as they can get good players doesn't matter, howie and Co can't afford to flip on their first few picks.

 

2 hours ago, TorontoEagle said:

Let's say it goes Lawrence/Wilson/Jones/Pitts/Chase...

 

Where does Sewell fall to? Miami probably takes Smith/Waddle. Detroit should take Sewell there. Could take Fields tho if they love him. Carolina could go QB or Parsons. Sewell could potentially fall to Cowboys/Giants....ugh.

I think Howie is taken a bigger risk than he thinks with the trade down. I would love him to move up for a player that falls. 

11 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup I agree and how Howie reaches a consensus on BPA is the key.

I mean there will be a bunch of guys at 37 who are comparable in talent regardless of position so how does one decide if the corner or LB or WR of equal or comparable talent  is the BPA.

I don't know Howie's exact method of determination seems in the past they don't either so it will be I retesting to see what happens.

I don't know where the "consensus' builder came from. I've often referred to Howie as an information gatherer as opposed to talent evaluator but I would not equate my definition of information gatherer to consensus builder - they are not the same. No GM makes decisions in a vacuum - they're all consensus builders to a degree. I think I have more confidence in Howie - particularly this year - than most. I look at the 2013 drafts and the 2016 drafts - both good drafts. 2013 was after AR left and Howie had full control - Chip had yet to assert himself. 2016 was a similar situation. When Howie relied more on his staff and scouts they drafted well - as the coaches gained more influence the wheels started to wobble.

I also think to understand what went wrong you have to look at picks individually instead of just a blanket one persons fault for everything. I used to think that Joe Douglas  influenced the JJAW pick but now we know that Lurie had his fingers on it to some degree whether intentional or not. 

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

If that is the result, equally rated players at multiple positions, the answer is trade back.  If that is not an option, then identify the position of higher priority/greatest impact.  For example, an OL would play 100% of the snaps, whereas a LB would likely play only 2 out of every 3 downs.   Or the one who has the closest to the ideal measurables... or best interviews... or loves "ball" the most.

So many variables go into drafting a player it's definitely Intriguing.

Hopefully Howie and Co don't mess it up. Having a good draft could really change fortunes for the franchise.

They need a 2002 draft not a 2003 draft.

 

2 minutes ago, Utebird said:

So many variables go into drafting a player it's definitely Intriguing.

Hopefully Howie and Co don't mess it up. Having a good draft could really change fortunes for the franchise.

They need a 2002 draft not a 2003 draft.

 

That's like asking the compulsive liar to finally tell the truth.  Sure, they might just do it once, but don't expect it consistently.

3 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I like Paye, I think he's an over looked athlete.

The miami guys get a lot of pub and Late has comparable or better testing and comparable production and is better against the run than both.

He's a high character high motor player as well.

I'd be fine with Paye at 12, I think good DL add more value to teams than good WRs or good CBs.

Having said that if they pick a WR or CB or a by some crazy chance a LB at 12 I won't be mad.

As long as they can get good players doesn't matter, howie and Co can't afford to flip on their first few picks.

 

My fear with Paye, and I know he's your guy, is that they're just getting another Derek Barnett.  I don't want that caliber of player at 12.  It's a very weak DL class and 12 is overdrafting him.  I just don't know.

4 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

I don't know where the "consensus' builder came from. I've often referred to Howie as an information gatherer as opposed to talent evaluator but I would not equate my definition of information gatherer to consensus builder - they are not the same. No GM makes decisions in a vacuum - they're all consensus builders to a degree. I think I have more confidence in Howie - particularly this year - than most. I look at the 2013 drafts and the 2016 drafts - both good drafts. 2013 was after AR left and Howie had full control - Chip had yet to assert himself. 2016 was a similar situation. When Howie relied more on his staff and scouts they drafted well - as the coaches gained more influence the wheels started to wobble.

I also think to understand what went wrong you have to look at picks individually instead of just a blanket one persons fault for everything. I used to think that Joe Douglas  influenced the JJAW pick but now we know that Lurie had his fingers on it to some degree whether intentional or not. 

I agree to appoint, I think Howie sometimes is judged too harshly and I've done my fair share of howie bashing and to that end a person is only as good as those he surrounds himself with and as good as he allows those people to contribute 

Letti g Lurie have any say in personnel de isions or at least a significant amount is setting one self up to fail but what's he supposed to do Lurie is the freaking owner so I guess I can cut howie some slack for that 

6 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

My fear with Paye, and I know he's your guy, is that they're just getting another Derek Barnett.  I don't want that caliber of player at 12.  It's a very weak DL class and 12 is overdrafting him.  I just don't know.

I think the same things, 12 dies seem a bit high and I don't really like anybody else at 12 either that I can say wow that's excellent value for that guy at 12.

Having said that I think Paye is a far better athlete than barnett.

Barnett was touted as a technical guy with bend a high motor and of course a lot of production but athletic wise he's just average 

Paye holds the record for fastest 3 cone for a DL ran a4.52 40  benched 36 vert of 35 he's an explosive quick twitch athlete and still I have some of the same reservations as you that 12 might be too high, though most mocks I see have him going right before 12 so who knows???

5 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

My fear with Paye, and I know he's your guy, is that they're just getting another Derek Barnett.  I don't want that caliber of player at 12.  It's a very weak DL class and 12 is overdrafting him.  I just don't know.

When you've invested as much in the DL as the Eagles have, the highest you should be a taking a non-elite DL prospect is the 3rd round.

5 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

My fear with Paye, and I know he's your guy, is that they're just getting another Derek Barnett.  I don't want that caliber of player at 12.  It's a very weak DL class and 12 is overdrafting him.  I just don't know.

I agree. Not enough production to justify him at 12.  If you are going to spend a first rounder at 12 on DE, they should have the production and athleticism.  These first round DEs would go in the 2nd round in most drafts. 

1 minute ago, Saltpeter said:

When you've invested as much in the DL as the Eagles have, the highest you should be a taking a non-elite DL prospect is the 3rd round.

Except the investment they have in DL are all getting older or are old except for Barnett who is on a 1 year tender 

If one has a  DL prospect rated higher than a DB or WR prospect take the DL, it's a position of high value.

 

Just now, ManuManu said:

 

Well if he runs a 4.38 he'll only be the 43rd player to do it in the last week😉

 

6 minutes ago, CaliEagle said:

I agree. Not enough production to justify him at 12.  If you are going to spend a first rounder at 12 on DE, they should have the production and athleticism.  These first round DEs would go in the 2nd round in most drafts. 

Honestly looking at how alot of projections are shaking out I'm not sure who at 12 will be justified.

This draft is so weird compared to past because of covid and all that, usually most teams will have pretty close grades on the first round guys but I imagine this time around league consensus is all over the place.