21 minutes ago, Thrive said:

My stance on Hurts is pretty simple: if Hurts was as bad as some here want to believe, Wentz would still be here. So from my perspective, just from pure logically extrapolation, Hurts must be a prospect worth being patient with. 

In all seriousness, what the hell is "pure logically extrapolation?"

11 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

If they were sure Hurts is going to be bad then they still would have traded to 3 like the 49ers and taken another QB.  I always felt that if there is a QB prospect available that yoy really felt had a high chance to be the franchise guy then you should consider it and try to take them.  Eagles clearly felt Wilson has that potential and they tried for it, couldn't get the lick from the Jets and proceeded to then accumulate picks for next year to give them the safety net of if Hurts doesn't pan out in year two.  They have the best assets to move for a vet QB or move up in the draft for a QB next year but if Hurts pans out they can still use those picks to target other blue chip talent in next draft and/or trade for an elite veteran in either side of the ball next offseason. 

Howie has done well to give him a lot of options going forward.  

You don’t just take a quarterback because you want to take a quarterback cause you don’t have one right now or have a belief yours could be bad. That’s how teams get into drafting bad quarterbacks. Unless you love a quarterback inside the top 10 and willing to trade multiple picks you don’t just take one because hell why not we don’t believe in this other one. So you are telling me, they’re willing to trade two or three first round picks to move up for a quarterback they didn’t love (hence why they didn’t just trade into 3) but thought because they didn’t love Jalen hurts or they might have thought he was bad? So let’s just give up 2 firsts and potentially more just to move up to 3 and just take a QB that they really didn’t love cause they thought Hurts could be bad. 

Just now, Swoop said:

Just as soon as you explain why people care that he changed his number, chief. One of us has been banned in the past for having their head up their ass and being a troll. Wasn't me, so by process of elimination...

I don't hate Hurts. Have I pointed out red flags? Sure. Have I said I don't have faith? Sure. I know you might have difficulty differentiating between skepticism and hatred, but they aren't the same thing. 

Maybe get outside once and a while.

 

 

People taking shots at Hurts in the thread for changing his number to 1.  Such an insignificant decision that still resulted in the crowd that does not like him to take shots at him for it.  Now give me the statistical backup to your claim that Josh Allen in the 2nd half of his first 4 starts was far superior than Hurts in the second half of his first four starts. 

You don't just have skepticism for Hurts, your posts on Hurts indicate that you sold on your opinion that he is not and will not be a good QB.  You don't even leave open the door that he could do well and take a step forward. 

1 minute ago, Desertbirds said:

In all seriousness, what the hell is "pure logically extrapolation?"

Maybe "pure logical extrapolation” would have been more grammatically correct but come on, it’s just the Blog!

1 minute ago, Thrive said:

It’s not exactly clear whether or not we truly wanted to go up for Wilson but, quite frankly, if you see Wilson as a Mahomes/Rodgers type talent, you trade up for him even if you had Wentz.

Using your logic, the Eagles therefore prefer Hurts to Jones, Fields and Trey, who are all excellent prospects in their own rights.

In Madden, sure. You can't force other teams to trade.

38 minutes ago, Thrive said:

It’s not exactly clear whether or not we truly wanted to go up for Wilson but, quite frankly, if you see Wilson as a Mahomes/Rodgers type talent, you trade up for him even if you had Wentz.

Using your logic, the Eagles therefore prefer Hurts to Jones, Fields and Trey, who are all excellent prospects in their own rights.

I think the eagles didn’t want to pay the price for Lance, fields or jones that it would cost to move up cause they didn’t love those three or think they were worth the value of that trade. They might still think each one of those guys is better than hurts but not worth what it cost to move up nor what they could get for the 6th pick or believe none are worth the 6th pick  

I think they would’ve for Wilson cause they probably loved Wilson. They weren’t going to just trade up the three just to get a quarterback. You are not going to just move up to three and give up a ton of draft capital unless you LOVE the quarterback. They might like all three of those other quarterbacks and are better than Hurts but not significantly enough to invest trading up, 6 or even 12 to get them 

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

People taking shots at Hurts in the thread for changing his number to 1.  Such an insignificant decision that still resulted in the crowd that does not like him to take shots at him for it.  Now give me the statistical backup to your claim that Josh Allen in the 2nd half of his first 4 starts was far superior than Hurts in the second half of his first four starts. 

You don't just have skepticism for Hurts, your posts on Hurts indicate that you sold on your opinion that he is not and will not be a good QB.  You don't even leave open the door that he could do well and take a step forward. 

For those who don't like him-an upside:

Changing from #2 to #1 is like graduating from poop to piss.

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

You don’t just take a quarterback because you want to take a quarterback cause you don’t have one right now. That’s how teams get into drafting bad quarterbacks. Unless you love a quarterback inside the top 10 and willing to trade multiple picks you don’t just take one because he’ll why not we don’t believe in this other one. So you are telling me, they’re willing to trade two or three first round picks to move up for a quarterback they didn’t love (hence why they didn’t just trade into 3) but thought because they didn’t love Jalen hurts. So let’s just give up 2 firsts and potentially more just to move up to 3 and just take a QB that they really didn’t love cause they thought Hurts could be bad. 

 

Your whole post backs up my point pretty well. Eagles were only going to move up for a QB that they loved and that was Wilson who was unavailable.  If they thought Hurts was going to be bad then they would still be targeting another QB that they like, not love like Wilson, but like because if you don't have a QB then you don't have anything in this league. The fact that they proceeded to trade back and out of a QB that would even be there at 6 shows that that Hurts has a reasonable chance to show something this season but are also putting themselves in position for next offseason in case he doesn't continue to progress. 

6 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Your whole post backs up my point pretty well. Eagles were only going to move up for a QB that they loved and that was Wilson who was unavailable.  If they thought Hurts was going to be bad then they would still be targeting another QB that they like, not love like Wilson, but like because if you don't have a QB then you don't have anything in this league. The fact that they proceeded to trade back and out of a QB that would even be there at 6 shows that that Hurts has a reasonable chance to show something this season but are also putting themselves in position for next offseason in case he doesn't continue to progress. 

My point is if they had a chance to get a better option at quarterback by moving up they would’ve done so and moved on from Hurts. So because they couldn’t get that guy they just went to their fallback plan of we’re just gonna go with hurts for this year. That’s not exactly endorsing the fact that they love Jalen hurts. They were actively trying to get a quarterback they believed was better than Hurts. It’s endorsing the fact the other quarterbacks behind Wilson and Lawrence they just don’t love or think are worthy of moving up or at 6. 

Additionally they could rate Lance, jones and fields as first rounders but just not worthy of moving up 3 or at six. They might have them as first round picks but in the middle of the first round or the end of the first round and still have a higher grade then hurts. We don’t know their board so it’s a question that can’t be answered. 

I agree with your last point they are setting themselves up next offseason if Hurts doesn’t pan out and they can try to acquire another QB. 

14 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

What kind of expectations do you have for a rookie in their first 4 starts on a bad team going up against teams that were all in the playoff hunt at the end of the year? 

You compare the rookie years of McNabb, Foles, Wentz and Hurts his rookie year compares very favorably. And I doubt you were as low and negative about those players heading I to their 2nd seasons so you're holding Hurts to a higher expectation for some reason. 

Ok so here’s the real difference.

I am either unwilling or unable to abandon my pre-existing opinion on a player for a set of Pom-poms and "wait and see” just because they become a Philadelphia Eagle.

I didn’t like Hurts as a pro qb prospect in college, didn’t like him in the draft, didn’t like him as an Eagles draft pick, and didn’t like what I saw from him as a rookie in a handful of games (there are several reasons his rookie season does not compare well to those 3 aforementioned qbs, but that’s not my core point here).  I would not want Hurts as our qb of the future if he never had any exposure at all last year.  I didn’t like him as a qb prospect and that doesn’t just change because he’s ours.

 

 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

My point is if they had a chance to get a better option at quarterback by moving up they would’ve done so and moved on from Hurts. So because they couldn’t get that guy they just went to their fallback plan off we’re just gonna go with hurts for this year. That’s not exactly endorsing the fact that they love Jalen hurts. It’s endorsing the fact more than the other quarterbacks behind Wilson and Lawrence they just don’t love or think are worthy of moving up or at 6. 

Additionally they could rate Lance, jones and fields as first rounders but just not worthy of moving up 3 or at six. They might have them as first round picks but in the middle of the first round or the end of the first round and still have a higher grade then hurts. We don’t know their board so it’s a question that can’t be answered. 

I agree with your last point they are setting themselves up next offseason if Hurts doesn’t pan out and they can try to acquire another QB. 

 

I don't think anyone is claiming that they love Hurts. He could go either way in year two and which way he goes will determine the rest of his career with the Eagles. If they felt that Wilson was a Rodgers or Mahomes level prospect then it makes sense for them to go up and try to get a QB like that.  That's no conviction of no confidence in Hurts though.  If there is a guy you think can develop into a top 3 QB when you have a guy whose ceiling might be a top 10-12 QB then yeah you try for the guy with that top 3 potential. 

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Ok so here’s the real difference.

I am either unwilling or unable to abandon my pre-existing opinion on a player for a set of Pom-poms and "wait and see” just because they become a Philadelphia Eagle.

I didn’t like Hurts as a pro qb prospect in college, didn’t like him in the draft, didn’t like him as an Eagles draft pick, and didn’t like what I saw from him as a rookie in a handful of games (there are several reasons his rookie season does not compare well to those 3 aforementioned qbs, but that’s not my core point here).  I would not want Hurts as our qb of the future if he never had any exposure at all last year.  I didn’t like him as a qb prospect and that doesn’t just change because he’s ours.

 

How was his season different than the 4 other Eagles rookie QB seasons to the point that you placed higher expectations on Hurts than those other QBs? 

Let me distill my problem with Hurts all the way up to the 30,000’ level.  No stats, no highlights, no links.

Of highly drafted qbs...

The ones that are raw are 6’5” with a howitzer.

The ones that are 6’1” with average arms have the passing polish of jewels in a royal crown.

Jalen Hurts is 6’1” with an average arm and is a raw run first passer who needs to work on going through full progressions.  
 

So again...THIS is who we want to hand the keys as our QB of the future?  Purely based on a "well, maybe he surprises us and becomes a Brees/Wilson...because, well, they were kind of like that.”

Sure, it could happen.  But we really want to be the team that hitches our wagon to a 6’1” average arm talent raw passer just because anything can happen?  We’d be snickering at other teams for that.

14 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

I don't think anyone is claiming that they love Hurts. He could go either way in year two and which way he goes will determine the rest of his career with the Eagles. If they felt that Wilson was a Rodgers or Mahomes level prospect then it makes sense for them to go up and try to get a QB like that.  That's no conviction of no confidence in Hurts though.  If there is a guy you think can develop into a top 3 QB when you have a guy whose ceiling might be a top 10-12 QB then yeah you try for the guy with that top 3 potential. 

That’s true. I was never against going with hurts. I’ve said i would cause frankly i don’t think this team is ready for a QB and if you draft one you likely are gonna waste one or two years of his rookie contract building the team up around him and with a loss of picks added on unless you got fortunate and loved one that fell to 6

Only thing that puts a dent into how the eagles think of hurts is caplan and mosher have adamantly stated (this last podcast especially) they’ve had sources within the eagles say they didn’t draft hurts to be a starter. Their intention was to have him as the backup to wentz and eventually pull an AJ feeley with him. Granted that might not be true. Frankly I don’t think that’s true. I’ve said for a while I think he was the insurance plan in case things went south with Carson Wentz.

to me I think they’re trying to set themselves up for next year to go after Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson. I would say move up in next years draft to try to get Howell or the Oklahoma quarterback Rattler (maybe someone else we haven’t heard of yet like Wilson did this year) but I have a feeling that those guys go one and two. I don’t see the Eagles being that bad. They are likely a 6 to 8 win team. It’s likely there’s going to be teams needing a quarterback at one and two so even if you have three first round picks that doesn’t mean they’re gonna be willing to trade with you cause they also need a QB. granted next year there could be a quarterback like Wilson who comes out of nowhere and becomes a highly rated prospect.  Point here is just having three first round pick next year doesn’t assure you that you’re going to be able to move up to get the quarterback you love because you might have two teams that don’t want to trade out of those spots and want the same player you do

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

 

People taking shots at Hurts in the thread for changing his number to 1.  Such an insignificant decision that still resulted in the crowd that does not like him to take shots at him for it.  Now give me the statistical backup to your claim that Josh Allen in the 2nd half of his first 4 starts was far superior than Hurts in the second half of his first four starts. 

You don't just have skepticism for Hurts, your posts on Hurts indicate that you sold on your opinion that he is not and will not be a good QB.  You don't even leave open the door that he could do well and take a step forward. 

People are making jokes. You said people were furious. Who's furious? Another baseless claim? Sounds right.

And FWIW, that wasn't what I said. What I said was, that as teams adjusted, Josh Allen managed to maintain his level of play and didn't have a drastic drop off in production like Hurts did. 

Having said that, over their first four starts Josh Allen threw for a higher completion percentage, fumbled the ball less, but threw for fewer yards (albeit about a games worth of fewer attempts).

In terms of second halves of said games, Allen was virtually the same across the board in completion percentage, passing y/a, QB rating, etc. Hurts, as has been stated, lost 13% on his completion percentage, his QB rating drops from 105 to 55, his sacks increase, his turnovers increase, his y/a decrease, his rushing y/a decreased.

As a bonus:

Jalen Hurts when trailing (combining the numbers of 2 minutes and 4 minutes to go) has future HoF level numbers of being 14/43 for a stunning 172 yards, 0 Touchdowns and 4 interceptions. All of that amounts to, now you might want to sit down for this, a whopping 8.6 QB rating. 

Josh Allen was terrible as a rookie. Never denied it. He was one of the rare cases we've seen in the league. Could Hurts follow suit? Sure. Wouldn't bet money on it.

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Let me distill my problem with Hurts all the way up to the 30,000’ level.  No stats, no highlights, no links.

Of highly drafted qbs...

The ones that are raw are 6’5” with a howitzer.

The ones that are 6’1” with average arms have the passing polish of jewels in a royal crown.

Jalen Hurts is 6’1” with an average arm and is a raw run first passer who needs to work on going through full progressions.  
 

So again...THIS is who we want to hand the keys as our QB of the future?  Purely based on a "well, maybe he surprises us and becomes a Brees/Wilson...because, well, they were kind of like that.”

Sure, it could happen.  But we really want to be the team that hitches our wagon to a 6’1” average arm talent raw passer just because anything can happen?  We’d be snickering at other teams for that.

 

 

 

Hand the keys to the future?  I haven't seen anyone calling for the Eagles to extend Hurts to a new deal this offseason, which they couldn't even.  This isn't a good team that won't be contending in 2021 no matter who the QB is out there this season.  Letting Hurts show what he can do in his second season where we can reasonably expect a step forward is of no long term risk to the Eagles.  You seemingly have no interest in letting him show what he can do because he was not yet as polished of a passer at 22 years old as a rookie as Brees and Wilson are. 

 

He's a physically gifted young QB with great leadership skills and a tremendous work ethic who had a promising rookie season especially when compared to the rookie years of McNabb, Foles and Wentz. Letting him see what he has in year two isn't handing the keys of the franchise over to him.  I think you're worried that he actually looks good in year 1 because you don't want him as the QB here even if he turns out to be a good QB in his second season. 

16 hours ago, garingovt2000 said:

Love the flyer you took on my boy Vasher in the 7th! 

4 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

 

Hand the keys to the future?  I haven't seen anyone calling for the Eagles to extend Hurts to a new deal this offseason, which they couldn't even.  This isn't a good team that won't be contending in 2021 no matter who the QB is out there this season.  Letting Hurts show what he can do in his second season where we can reasonably expect a step forward is of no long term risk to the Eagles.  You seemingly have no interest in letting him show what he can do because he was not yet as polished of a passer at 22 years old as a rookie as Brees and Wilson are. 

 

He's a physically gifted young QB with great leadership skills and a tremendous work ethic who had a promising rookie season especially when compared to the rookie years of McNabb, Foles and Wentz. Letting him see what he has in year two isn't handing the keys of the franchise over to him.  I think you're worried that he actually looks good in year 1 because you don't want him as the QB here even if he turns out to be a good QB in his second season. 

Again, what’s with calling a 6’1” qb with an average arm physically gifted?

I’m extremely worried that he surprises a bit and we end up commuting to Tyrod Taylor for the next 5 years.  You are 100% correct.  Let’s not forget that Tebow won a playoff game in year 2 and Taylor went to a pro bowl.

5 minutes ago, Swoop said:

People are making jokes. You said people were furious. Who's furious? Another baseless claim? Sounds right.

And FWIW, that wasn't what I said. What I said was, that as teams adjusted, Josh Allen managed to maintain his level of play and didn't have a drastic drop off in production like Hurts did. 

Having said that, over their first four starts Josh Allen threw for a higher completion percentage, fumbled the ball less, but threw for fewer yards (albeit about a games worth of fewer attempts).

In terms of second halves of said games, Allen was virtually the same across the board in completion percentage, passing y/a, QB rating, etc. Hurts, as has been stated, lost 13% on his completion percentage, his QB rating drops from 105 to 55, his sacks increase, his turnovers increase, his y/a decrease, his rushing y/a decreased.

As a bonus:

Jalen Hurts when trailing (combining the numbers of 2 minutes and 4 minutes to go) has future HoF level numbers of being 14/43 for a stunning 172 yards, 0 Touchdowns and 4 interceptions. All of that amounts to, now you might want to sit down for this, a whopping 8.6 QB rating. 

Josh Allen was terrible as a rookie. Never denied it. He was one of the rare cases we've seen in the league. Could Hurts follow suit? Sure. Wouldn't bet money on it.

 

Can you please back up your claims with numbers.  I would like the statistical breakdown comparison because you have already established a history of making claims but not being able to back it up with the data.  Also due to the fact that your numbers did present are completely fictitious as Hurts scored a TD with under a minute left in the 2nd quarter of the Cardinals game and a TD as well under 4 minutes left in the 2nd quarter of the Redskins game. 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Can you please back up your claims with numbers.  I would like the statistical breakdown comparison because you have already established a history of making claims but not being able to back it up with the data.  Also due to the fact that your numbers did present are completely fictitious as Hurts scored a TD with under a minute left in the 2nd quarter of the Cardinals game and a TD as well under 4 minutes left in the 2nd quarter of the Redskins game. 

 

 

 

Under 2/4 minutes left in the game, not a given quarter. I gave you numbers. Keep up the denial.

 

Man, who woulda thought saying “#1 looks bad on a QB” would be such a lightening rod for controversy 

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Again, what’s with calling a 6’1” qb with an average arm physically gifted?

I’m extremely worried that he surprises a bit and we end up commuting to Tyrod Taylor for the next 5 years.  You are 100% correct.  Let’s not forget that Tebow won a playoff game in year 2 and Taylor went to a pro bowl.

 

To act as if he is not her athletically gifted is insincere. Also he doesn't have the arm of Mahomes, Rodgers or Josh Allen to flick his rist and send the ball 60+ yards through the air down the field, but he isn't this extremely limited QB that you are making him out to be. He can throw with one of the highest velocities in the league and also throw it with a very soft touch.  He showed last season he can pass down the field, he can hit someone outside the lines on an out route down the field. We didn't see any plays last season where he didn't have the arm capable for a throw that he attempted. 

 

You don't make a play like this if you aren't physically gifted.  It was reminiscent of the special kind of plays Wentz would make. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Under 2/4 minutes left in the game, not a given quarter. I gave you numbers. Keep up the denial.

 

 

 

 

What is even being shown in these screen shots? 

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Man, who woulda thought saying “#1 looks bad on a QB” would be such a lightening rod for controversy 

You're not part of the Hurts Huggers club so you're a hater, bro.

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Again, what’s with calling a 6’1” qb with an average arm physically gifted?

I’m extremely worried that he surprises a bit and we end up commuting to Tyrod Taylor for the next 5 years.  You are 100% correct.  Let’s not forget that Tebow won a playoff game in year 2 and Taylor went to a pro bowl.

I look at it this way on next year. I want hurts to  be good. Heck great. Id be happy for just good. However he needs to either be good or bad. It does nothing for the Eagles if he’s just average out there. That’s going to get them stuck in purgatory. Even with three first round picks that doesn’t assure you if hurt is just average that you can move up from where you’re picking to get one of those quarterbacks in the next draft. So it likely would be a play for Wilson or watson (watson has a ntc so you are gonna have to convince him to come here and we have no clue what his future holds with this mess. As for Wilson that’s another story).

You might be in a similar position as this year where you wanted Zach Wilson but couldn’t move up to get him because another team slotted in a high position also loved him and made it impossible. Add on I don’t think the Dolphins are going to be as bad as people on here think. I think they are a 7 to 9 win team so that’s likely pick between 12 and 20. And the Colts you are likely getting a late first round pick or you’re getting a second round pick because if Carson Wentz stinks they arent going to allow him to play 75% of the snaps. They will just bench him so they can retain their first round pick.