7 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

Hurts: let's all hope he improves.  If he does all it is is good news.   If he doesn't, it's not terrible news.

The 2021 Eagles, everybody!

12 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

Hurts: let's all hope he improves.  If he does all it is is good news.   If he doesn't, it's not terrible news.

 

8 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

If he sucks then the good news is the team is likely picking in the top 10 again

If he's great then we can use the picks to finally build around the QB

not going to repeat the argument from before. You want him either to be good/great. If he is not then really bad in 2021. You don’t want him being just average for a multitude of reasons. For instance just cause you have three firsts doesn’t mean a Team covets those picks as much as a QB they can take in their draft position. 

1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Okay so that's Hurts, what would be the same breakdown then for Allen for just his first 4 starts. 

So why did we ever cut Clayton Thorson?  I mean that guy started 0 NFL games.  Talk about not giving someone a chance.  

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So why did we ever cut Clayton Thorson?  I mean that guy started 0 NFL games.  Talk about not giving someone a chance.  

 

Because he was awful in practice and preseason.  Hurts did not have a bad rookie year given the circumstances.  As I said before you compare it to the rookie years of McNabb, Foles and Wentz and it does not look bad in comparison. You have chosen to hold Hurts to higher expectations though. 

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

I’m actually fine with giving Hurts a chance in 2021.  I’m just afraid of the purgatory our offense could enter if he beats expectations, is OK, and we commit to him with a mobile qb dink and dunk offense.

Thats an absolute disaster.

If he’s going to be Russel Wilson or Drew Brees, great.  Wonderful.  I don’t expect it, but I’ll eat that crow all day long.  
 

But if he has a mediocre year and we enter that circle jerk about how he did so much with so little and don’t constantly have an eye on an upgrade/competition, we are going to be in a world of pain moving forward.  

This is why I think if he plays decent but you aren’t 100% sold on him you push some of the premium 2022 draft capital to 2023. It’s the best of both worlds: you get optionality on the QB situation and draft dividends to aid the rebuild.

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Because he was awful in practice and preseason.  Hurts did not have a bad rookie year given the circumstances.  As I said before you compare it to the rookie years of McNabb, Foles and Wentz and it does not look bad in comparison. You have chosen to hold Hurts to higher expectations though. 

Mcnabb in 1999 does not apply.  It's a different league, you know that, and it's disingenuous to even suggest a comparison.

Even Foles was in a different league, although not to the same extent.  Also, Wentz and Foles had better QB ratings with better completion % than Hurts anyway.  They also didn't try to run the ball about 60 times as a crutch in 4 starts.  Foles is a career backup and Wentz didn't exactly end well here.  So why, exactly, is that the bar?  

Regardless, both Foles and Wentz had fairly anonymous, unremarkable rookie years with typical rookie struggles.  So did Hurts. Point taken there.  As I said, I had an opinion on Hurts as a passer before he was ever an Eagle.  It would be silly to say that his rookie year performance (be it his fault or not) could even begin to change the opinion that he's a bad passer.

6 minutes ago, TEW said:

This is why I think if he plays decent but you aren’t 100% sold on him you push some of the premium 2022 draft capital to 2023. It’s the best of both worlds: you get optionality on the QB situation and draft dividends to aid the rebuild.

That's fair.  I'm all for rolling a draft capital snowball downhill.

What re-ignited this entire Hurts debate was when I suggested using a 3rd round pick on a lottery ticket QB.

My bottom line with Hurts: we have no one else.  So of course, fine, let's see what he can do in 2021.  But he is not a good enough prospect and has not shown enough thus far for the Eagles to have ANY hesitation in upgrading the future at the position.  Be it with a first round pick (or trade up) for an excellent prospect or a 3rd-7th round pick on someone with upside to groom and compete.  You don't pass up on either of those opportunities, should they present themselves, because we have Jalen Hurts.

5 hours ago, BigEFly said:

And some throws that just make you scratch your head and say "huh”.  Not as bad as Mond with those but I think Mond is the better of the two.  Both will go higher than they should.

I would take Mills in the fourth but i think he has Patriots written all over him

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Mcnabb in 1999 does not apply.  It's a different league, you know that, and it's disingenuous to even suggest a comparison.

Even Foles was in a different league, although not to the same extent.  Also, Wentz and Foles had better QB ratings with better completion % than Hurts anyway.  They also didn't try to run the ball about 60 times as a crutch in 4 starts.  Foles is a career backup and Wentz didn't exactly end well here.  So why, exactly, is that the bar?  

Regardless, both Foles and Wentz had fairly anonymous, unremarkable rookie years with typical rookie struggles.  So did Hurts. Point taken there.  As I said, I had an opinion on Hurts as a passer before he was ever an Eagle.  It would be silly to say that his rookie year performance (be it his fault or not) could even begin to change the opinion that he's a bad passer.

 

Hurts made a lot of really nice throws and converted some big 3rd and 4th downs.  For the absolute gutter expectations most people had of him going into his starts you would have thought he were completely incapable of throwing the football.  There is no doubt he can throw the ball at the pro level. The only question now is how much can he develop and improve to become a more consistent QB as he gains more expierence. 

2 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

I would take Mills in the fourth but i think he has Patriots written all over him

The inexplicable and senseless Cam Newton experiment notwithstanding, if you think a QB has Patriots written all over him, you might want to bump up where you'd be willing to take him by a round or 2.

So who's buying the apparent reports / rumours that the Eagles are at the front of the queue for Russell Wilson? I'm not buying it for a second. 

3 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

So who's buying the apparent reports / rumours that the Eagles are at the front of the queue for Russell Wilson? I'm not buying it for a second. 

That would be horrible.  I love Russ the QB, but that's just not a fit.  The last thing this team needs to do is plunge all of our recently and wisely acquired draft capital into a QB who turns 34 next year for a rebuilding team.

I just can't fathom they would do that.  

The Dolphins are a better fit for that story.  Much better team than we have, much more draft capital too.  Let them make that deal once they realize Tua isn't good enough next offseason.

At this point, all signs are pointing to play Hurts this season.  If he fails, then they get someone else at QB.  Drafting one this season will only start the process all over again and one step back.  Rookie QB does not get to play right away.  Hurts at least has a few games under the belt.  Flacco is here to compete, so he thinks.  Likely he will just sitting and earn some cool money.

Having 2 high draft QBs on the team is kind of waste of resources.  Also says the poor projection on the personnel department.

 

28 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Because he was awful in practice and preseason.  Hurts did not have a bad rookie year given the circumstances.  As I said before you compare it to the rookie years of McNabb, Foles and Wentz and it does not look bad in comparison. You have chosen to hold Hurts to higher expectations though. 

The problem with comparing rookie seasons is that you are essentially comparing floors. The difference with Hurts is not that he's being held to higher (standard) expectations - it's that the expectations of those other QB's you listed were higher for them. I don't think anyone believes we've seen the best of Hurts yet. But most feel it probably doesn't get much better.

3 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

The problem with comparing rookie seasons is that you are essentially comparing floors. The difference with Hurts is not that he's being held to higher (standard) expectations - it's that the expectations of those other QB's you listed had higher expectations for them. I don't think anyone believes we've seen the best of Hurts yet. But most feel it probably doesn't get much better.

 

Why did you have higher expectations for 3rd round Nick Foles? 

3 hours ago, eagle45 said:

I provided stats, comparisons, etc...you can play your tired violin about how negative I am.  I’m plenty happy with certain moves this team makes.  You say I’m always negative...Id say I just have higher expectations than you do and am less willing to lower the bar.  

Im not the one who just reverted to challenging if someone watches games or understands football.  Hardly an infantile insult, but still just a weak grasp at straws when there is very little tangible to compare Hurts to top QBs.  

 

 

But that’s the problem with using Hurts’ completion stats from last year.  A number of people pointed out they were impacted by him needing to throw the ball away and you suggested that the only thing folks were suggesting good about Hurts was he throws the ball away, which wasn’t the case at all.  That’s why you were asked if you watched the game by those posters. I compared the stats of an eleven game starter to one that started for two top five teams for over three years in response to your saying Mills was a better passer than Hurts, who you suggested couldn’t pass at all.  Those stats favor Hurts by a fair amount. 

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Why did you have higher expectations for 3rd round Nick Foles? 

Nick Foles was a better passer than Hurts - the knock on Foles was that he lacked athleticism - you know - the same thing that caused Brady to drop.

And comparing rookie seasons - which was the only thing to go on at the time - Foles was better in his first 6 starts than Luck was in his first 6 starts.

Acuna Jr has a freaking cannon.

14 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

So who's buying the apparent reports / rumours that the Eagles are at the front of the queue for Russell Wilson? I'm not buying it for a second. 

I’m not sure it’s really based on rumor as much as connecting the dots. Wilson isn’t happy with the Seattle offense and the Eagles potentially have three No. 1 picks. 

12 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

That would be horrible.  I love Russ the QB, but that's just not a fit.  The last thing this team needs to do is plunge all of our recently and wisely acquired draft capital into a QB who turns 34 next year for a rebuilding team.

I just can't fathom they would do that.  

The Dolphins are a better fit for that story.  Much better team than we have, much more draft capital too.  Let them make that deal once they realize Tua isn't good enough next offseason.

I don’t think the Eagles would package all three 1s for Wilson considering his age. Two 1s, I think that would be on the table certainly. 

3 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think the eagles didn’t want to pay the price for Lance, fields or jones that it would cost to move up cause they didn’t love those three or think they were worth the value of that trade. They might still think each one of those guys is better than hurts but not worth what it cost to move up nor what they could get for the 6th pick or believe none are worth the 6th pick  

I think they would’ve for Wilson cause they probably loved Wilson. They weren’t going to just trade up the three just to get a quarterback. You are not going to just move up to three and give up a ton of draft capital unless you LOVE the quarterback. They might like all three of those other quarterbacks and are better than Hurts but not significantly enough to invest trading up, 6 or even 12 to get them 

I think a reporter heard they were talking to Miami and also saw that the OC and QB coach were at Wilson’s workout and concluded that they were contemplating trading to draft Wilson but then got word it was something else and quickly modified his post.  You are reading into a briefly posted tweet that was quickly modified. 

Just now, ManuManu said:

I don’t think the Eagles would package all three 1s for Wilson considering his age. Two 1s, I think that would be on the table certainly. 

I don't want Wilson. We are rebuilding. Wilson might have 3 years left in him - with the rules protecting QB's he might play into his 40's too - but I wouldn't expect it. So by the time the Eagles will reasonably have a team that Wilson could make a difference with - he'd be a 37 year old FA. No thanks - not even as a FA. Play Hurts - if he's great - great - if he sucks - great. If he's MVP level great - call Nick Foles and Tonya Harding. It's only bad for the Eagles if he's average.

3 hours ago, Greenakers2 said:

For those who don't like him-an upside:

Changing from #2 to #1 is like graduating from poop to piss.

I think it is funny. Carson goes to Indy, grabs Hurts’ number and Hurts responds that he is now #1. I have no problem with him grabbing the number when it became available. 

20 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

That would be horrible.  I love Russ the QB, but that's just not a fit.  The last thing this team needs to do is plunge all of our recently and wisely acquired draft capital into a QB who turns 34 next year for a rebuilding team.

I just can't fathom they would do that.  

The Dolphins are a better fit for that story.  Much better team than we have, much more draft capital too.  Let them make that deal once they realize Tua isn't good enough next offseason.

I agree with you there bud. It just makes no sense for this team to plunge assets and money back in to the QB position right now. Rebuild the roster, add talent and then perhaps it is a move to make in a couple of years. 

9 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I’m not sure it’s really based on rumor as much as connecting the dots. Wilson isn’t happy with the Seattle offense and the Eagles potentially have three No. 1 picks. 

True but then if he's not happy with their offense then he's not going to want to come to Philly.