3 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

No, under no scenario or circumstance does posting their per game stats over the entirety of their rookie years make any logical sense.  

 

Okay, but again, their numbers as starters are comparable. If you need a picture of the numbers as starters that desperately, I can give them to you. You can try to focus on the original post all you want to take attention off of the comparison and get in your feelings about what the original post showed, but the bottom line is:

Jalen Hurts and Tim Tebow has comparable rookie seasons when starting football games and nothing anyone ever says or does will ever change that. 

1 minute ago, ToastJenkins said:

I didnt see flashing promise

Careful, not many can sling em like Tebow.

3 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

I didnt see flashing promise

You blinked 

14 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Hurt(s) your feelings?

He squirts 

1 minute ago, ToastJenkins said:

I didnt see flashing promise

 

He made some very impressive throws.  He made some big throws at big moments on 4th down.  He made plays with his legs to get not only first downs and touchdowns but to also extend passing plays to find someone and complete the pass. He showed the awareness of when to get rid of the ball when something wasn't there and he made genuinely impressive plays like against the Cardinals when late in the game someone forces the fumble but he was able to pick it up and while on the run to his right throw it down the field to Goedert for a first down.  He had multiple opportunities in hurry up offense end of half situations and was successful in moving the ball down the field in a few of those.  There were absolutely flashes of promise there.  He made the plays that needed to be made against one of the best defenses in the league in his first start to get a win over what was at the time the team with the best record in the NFC that we haven't beat since I don't remember when. 

 

You want to see a rookie season with no flashes of promise look at JJAW, Marcus Smart, Matt Barkley, Danny Watkins and so on.  

Desperate projecting is all i see...

26 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

One can hope, but it's gonna take some serious Sun, stars, moon, earth and planets aligning for that honestly.

I want him to either succeed as the best or completely fall on his face.  I don't want any form of in between.  Mediocrity or excuses to keep the train limping is not an option.

This is the equation.  The worst possible outcome is for the organization to evaluate someone who isn’t good enough as good enough.  I never thought Agholor or Mills were good enough and had to watch both for 5 years.  That problem at QB is the worst problem to have.

6 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Okay, but again, their numbers as starters are comparable. If you need a picture of the numbers as starters that desperately, I can give them to you. You can try to focus on the original post all you want to take attention off of the comparison and get in your feelings about what the original post showed, but the bottom line is:

Jalen Hurts and Tim Tebow has comparable rookie seasons when starting football games and nothing anyone ever says or does will ever change that. 

 

Exaclty so you should have went with the per game numbers as starters if you wanted to make a point. You didn't though until I had to point out to you how meaningless the per game stat over the entire season was to try to use to make any sort of meaningful point. 

There is a certain level of just total lack of insincerity with some of your anti-Hurts posts where you will post something as completely irrelevant as their per game stats over the entire season as a way to try to knock Hurts or you will throw out a wild claim of something and state it as fact but never then actually be able to provide the statistical backing of your argument/statement. 

6 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Exaclty so you should have went with the per game numbers as starters if you wanted to make a point. You didn't though until I had to point out to you how meaningless the per game stat over the entire season was to try to use to make any sort of meaningful point. 

There is a certain level of just total lack of insincerity with some of your anti-Hurts posts where you will post something as completely irrelevant as their per game stats over the entire season as a way to try to knock Hurts or you will throw out a wild claim of something and state it as fact but never then actually be able to provide the statistical backing of your argument/statement. 

Again, Tebow also sat on the sideline doing N-O-T-H-I-N-G, even less than Hurts, for several games too. No, it wasn't 15, but let's not pretend Tebow was only active in 3 starts. That's WHY the per game was shown, because it IS comparable. Keep holding onto that though, RememberThePerGame.

Now why don't you show me where I actively rooted for Hurts to fail (as you've claimed) or address the fact that their numbers as starters are similar? 

Let me guess, you'll go on about the original post, make more baseless claims that I've supposedly said/done and talk about these "big throws" Hurts allegedly made and how good his mechanics are. 

Maybe it's time you take a seat now. 

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

This is the equation.  The worst possible outcome is for the organization to evaluate someone who isn’t good enough as good enough.  I never thought Agholor or Mills were good enough and had to watch both for 5 years.  That problem at QB is the worst problem to have.

 

They stuck with Agholor because they were invested in him as a 1st round pick. But they kept trying to being in guys to try to improve there as well.  They stuck with Mills because Howie kept busting on his moves for CB and Mills was the best of what they could get at the position.  

 

If Jalen Hurts isn't good enough in year 2 then the Eagles are going to try to improve the position.  They aren't going to stick with him if he comes out and has a season like Wentz had last year or goes something like 20 TD passes, 12 interceptions and 3,600 passing  yards.  But I think some people are trying to place expectations of he needs to be an all-pro next season or the Eagles need to move on.  If he goes for something like 28 TD passes, 10 interceptions, 3,800+ passing yards and then whatever rushing stats he will have as well then that should be good enough to give him a 3rd year and really try to build up the weapons around him with all that draft capitol next year. 

On 4/3/2021 at 8:57 AM, DumbleBear said:

Must they be reminded yet again , Sire . 

Wolves of Winter

 

I'm not clicking to listen, but just saying: Has this guy been involved with drugs, you think?

3 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

This is the equation.  The worst possible outcome is for the organization to evaluate someone who isn’t good enough as good enough.  I never thought Agholor or Mills were good enough and had to watch both for 5 years.  That problem at QB is the worst problem to have.

The sad part is that they tried to upgrade the CB position and the WR position... for longer than 5 years.   How has that worked out?  

 

And that is the scary part with this franchise.  Systemic failure at WR, CB and LB for years....  The failures at WR go back to the Andy Reid days.  There was that brief respite with Jackson and Maclin, but they were both flawed in their own ways as well, but way way better than any other WR drafted by this team since Mike Quick in 1982.  They've been trying to find CBs in the draft since 2002.  LBs?   Same story.   The system is broken here. 

Small school prospect showed up

 

1 minute ago, Swoop said:

Again, Tebow also sat on the sideline doing N-O-T-H-I-N-G, even less than Hurts, for several games too. No, it wasn't 15, but let's not pretend Tebow was only active in 3 starts. That's WHY the per game was shown, because it IS comparable. Keep holding onto that though, RememberThePerGame.

Now why don't you show me where I actively rooted for Hurts to fail (as you've claimed) or address the fact that their numbers as starters are similar? 

Let me guess, you'll go on about the original post, make more baseless claims that I've supposedly said/done and talk about these "big throws" Hurts allegedly made and how good his mechanics are. 

Maybe it's time you take a seat now. 

 

 

You took per game stats for 15 games for Hurts and 9 games for Tebow.  10 of those 15 games for Hurts he had  no significant load of touches and only two pass attempts.  

 

It is madness that you are trying to actually defend and act as if that per game screens hot over the entire season holds any relevant point to anything.  

 

"Big throws" Hurts allegedly makes? I'm not like you, of you want me to back up anything I'm telling you I can easily lost the plays for you. 

Also if you can't notice the difference between Tebow and Hurts mechanics and throwing motion then I don't know what you're watching. 

28 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Okay, but again, their numbers as starters are comparable. If you need a picture of the numbers as starters that desperately, I can give them to you. You can try to focus on the original post all you want to take attention off of the comparison and get in your feelings about what the original post showed, but the bottom line is:

Jalen Hurts and Tim Tebow has comparable rookie seasons when starting football games and nothing anyone ever says or does will ever change that. 

Careful, not many can sling em like Tebow.

 

 

I'm trying to help you out.  The stats per game starts is actually relevant for an argument that you want to make.  That is what you should have gone with originally. The per game over the entire season is a completely non-point for any argument.  There is mo meaning of Amy significance that can be drawn from it. 

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

You took per game stats for 15 games for Hurts and 9 games for Tebow.  10 of those 15 games for Hurts he had  no significant load of touches and only two pass attempts.  

 

It is madness that you are trying to actually defend and act as if that per game screens hot over the entire season holds any relevant point to anything.  

 

"Big throws" Hurts allegedly makes? I'm not like you, of you want me to back up anything I'm telling you I can easily lost the plays for you. 

Also if you can't notice the difference between Tebow and Hurts mechanics and throwing motion then I don't know what you're watching. 

Okay, dude. Keep up the good work, smooth brain.

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

I'm trying to help you out.  The stats per game starts is actually relevant for an argument that you want to make.  That is what you should have gone with originally. The per game over the entire season is a completely non-point for any argument.  There is mo meaning of Amy significance that can be drawn from it. 

Okay dude. Keep avoiding the numbers as starters. Keep the head far in that sand.

17 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Okay, dude. Keep up the good work, smooth brain.

Okay dude. Keep avoiding the numbers as starters. Keep the head far in that sand.

 

I'm not avoiding that.  I said that is actually a relevant stat point for you to present for the comparison that you want to make.  I've stated this several times now.  I certainly don't think it's that good of a comparison that I agree with because I've watched both of them play and they don't look similar in anyway with how they pass the ball. But from a statistical per start comparison it is fair.  

 

I'm just pointing out how your initial post was ridiculous with that completely irrelevant per game image over the course of the entire season. You keep doubling down on it as well which is just remarkable.  If I were you I would have just said I meant posting the per game over the just the starts as an easy escape.  But you genuinely believe that per game stat over the entire season has any relevance and meaning which is jarring. But whatever, done with this.  Not trying to jam this thread up even further with this nonsense.  

26 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

This is the equation.  The worst possible outcome is for the organization to evaluate someone who isn’t good enough as good enough.  I never thought Agholor or Mills were good enough and had to watch both for 5 years.  That problem at QB is the worst problem to have.

I am certain that he will progress over his performance this year and will run around enough to win some games with a healthy roster. I just hope that the decision makers aren't fooled.  

19 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The sad part is that they tried to upgrade the CB position and the WR position... for longer than 5 years.   How has that worked out?  

 

And that is the scary part with this franchise.  Systemic failure at WR, CB and LB for years....  The failures at WR go back to the Andy Reid days.  There was that brief respite with Jackson and Maclin, but they were both flawed in their own ways as well, but way way better than any other WR drafted by this team since Mike Quick in 1982.  They've been trying to find CBs in the draft since 2002.  LBs?   Same story.   The system is broken here. 

Really makes you question Lurie for keeping Howie

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Honestly the bullpen couldn’t be any worse and they added some power arms that should help. The fact espn today had a mlb scout say the numbers the Phillies pen gave up in 2020 are arenado’s typical season numbers is horribly bad. I think they were e 2nd or 3rd worse era of a bullpen since 1930.

im more concerned with what their 4-5th starters can do. Nola and wheeler i trust. Eflin began figuring it out at the end of kapler’s tenure where he said screw it i am going back to being what I’m comfortable with.  He was fine last year. His ERA looks worse at 3.97 cause the bullpen imploded many times when he left the game. He’s solid 3-4 guy. The rest of the staff is a huge question mark.

i also think they might be in the market at the deadline for a CF if haseley and Quinn don’t show much. Frankly i wouldn’t rely on Quinn he always gets hurt. 

True. My biggest issue is the offense. This team struggles to hit. Rys Hoskins is a less productive Ryan Howard. We need a hitter. Someone who’s capable of getting on base.

5 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I am certain that he will progress over his performance this year and will run around enough to win some games with a healthy roster. I just hope that the decision makers aren't fooled.  

 

What kind of year would you have to see from him to make you a believer to give him a 3rd season?

29 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

I'm not avoiding that.  I said that is actually a relevant stat point for you to present for the comparison that you want to make.  I've stated this several times now.  I certainly don't think it's that good of a comparison that I agree with because I've watched both of them play and they don't look similar in anyway with how they pass the ball. But from a statistical per start comparison it is fair.  

 

I'm just pointing out how your initial post was ridiculous with that completely irrelevant per game image over the course of the entire season. You keep doubling down on it as well which is just remarkable.  If I were you I would have just said I meant posting the per game over the just the starts as an easy escape.  But you genuinely believe that per game stat over the entire season has any relevance and meaning which is jarring. But whatever, done with this.  Not trying to jam this thread up even further with this nonsense.  

I'd be done too if I were you.

17 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

What kind of year would you have to see from him to make you a believer to give him a 3rd season?

Good question.  Let’s talk numbers.

Again, from my perspective...for a player I never liked who I think projects poorly as a starting nfl qb, he would need to have a disproportionately good year for me to want to give him a 3rd season...so, better than the minimum I’d otherwise be looking for from a better prospect. He really needs to convince me.  
 

One may point to Josh Allen as a now probowl qb who had a bad year 2.  If Hurts puts up those numbers in year 2, I definitely don’t want to see him in year 3.

Just now, eagle45 said:

Good question.  Let’s talk numbers.

Again, from my perspective...for a player I never liked who I think projects poorly as a starting nfl qb, he would need to have a disproportionately good year for me to want to give him a 3rd season...so, better than the minimum I’d otherwise be looking for from a better prospect. He really needs to convince me.  
 

One may point to Josh Allen as a now probowl qb who had a bad year 2.  If Hurts puts up those numbers in year 2, I definitely don’t want to see him in year 3.

 

So what are you thinking then?  And your post kind of goes to my point.  People are placing unreasonably higher expectations on Hurts than they would for another player just because of a pre-placed dislike for Hurts.  

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

You mean a Driscoll clone with longer arms?

Not really, no. Driscoll was a RS senior who weighed in under 300 pounds and already had great technique.

Being realistic in that you can't have everything in a mid round pick, I'm thinking of a guy with the same level of athleticism, much less refined technique/younger, but naturally much bigger. Basically more upside, lower floor. The reason being is timing. A guy like this isn't going to be ready to play right away, but that matches up perfectly with Brooks' age and allowing Dillard and Mailata time to see the field. Those two need to get on the field. I don't want anyone standing in their way. Driscoll was pretty NFL ready when he was drafted. He wasn't going to benefit much from sitting on the bench for a season or two. The only thing he'd improve on from that perspective is his strength and and possibly weight, but even there he was a RS senior so physically he was probably close to his max. Ironically, I think most in here -- including myself -- envisioned him as a Kelce replacement.

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

 

So what are you thinking then?  And your post kind of goes to my point.  People are placing unreasonably higher expectations on Hurts than they would for another player just because of a pre-placed dislike for Hurts.  

I’m not even going to argue that.  I agree with you completely.

I don’t like Hurts and think he’s a bad passer and a bad prospect.  Developing a qb takes years.  And I’m not willing to wait years for a bad prospect.  So the onus is on Hurts to do more, sooner, than a more traditional first round pick who profiles as a more advanced passer.