27 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Caplan in his podcast this week said he is hearing that there is no chance that Trey Lance goes in the top 10. DAL and NYG are definitely not drafting him, if he is there at #12, you gotta wonder about Howie pulling the trigger.

I don’t see that happening and that kind of feels like draft season crazy things get said.  but if true and the eagles somehow figured that out and that was the plan all along that is highly risk as he could’ve been selected before 12 or someone traded in front of you for him but credit to them if it did play out that way. 

9 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t see that happening and that kind of feels like draft season crazy things get said.  but if true and the eagles somehow figured that out and that was the plan all along that is highly risk as he could’ve been selected before 12 or someone traded in front of you for him but credit to them if it did play out that way. 

Barring any trades from outside the top 12, I can see it happening. Mac Jones goes #3 followed by Pitts, Sewell/Chase, Sewell/Smith, Waddle, Fields. The question mark is DEN at #9, can the Broncos risk another QB who is highly talented but raw? They got burned by Lynch and Lock, both had crazy skill sets but lacked polish, Lance might be too similar for comfort.

1 hour ago, D-Shiznit said:

Barring any trades from outside the top 12, I can see it happening. Mac Jones goes #3 followed by Pitts, Sewell/Chase, Sewell/Smith, Waddle, Fields. The question mark is DEN at #9, can the Broncos risk another QB who is highly talented but raw? They got burned by Lynch and Lock, both had crazy skill sets but lacked polish, Lance might be too similar for comfort.

Not sure I’d say they got burned by lock. He was a mid-second round pick that some projected as a late first so they took a chance at 42. They didn’t heavily invest like they did in Paxton lynch. That one they definitely got burned on. I still don’t rule them out of the watson sweepstakes if all his legal issues get resolved and he’s not found guilty with the current investigation by the police 

3 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Go look at their defense it was not just worse than the eagles but way worse.

27th in points allowed at 29 per game.

Against the run they were dead last/32nd against the run.

And against the pass they were 24th.

Yards per game they were 30th only the jags and lions were worse.

In takeaways Houston finish the year with 9. Which would be 32nd or dead last in the league. 

they also are a dumpster fire as they fired their head coach after a handful of games midseason

That is a lot to overcome.

What do you consider Hurts ceiling to be?  Watson? Prescott? Jackson? 

2 hours ago, TEW said:

I know nothing about the guy other than scouting reports, but given that,  I don't see how you pass on a QB with that much talent at #12 unless there are work ethic or intelligence issues. If you think he can learn given enough time, then it's a no brainer type of decision because you're getting a QB with prototypical size, speed, athleticism, and arm strength to go along with good accuracy. It's just a question of if he can learn the playbook and execute it mentally. If so, he's a pro bowler.

This board seems to be really high on Lance.  The guy has the talent but he's raw.   I doubt he starts his rookie year and if he does, it will likely be well into the season.  2 year project, imo. 

4 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

That is a lot to overcome.

What do you consider Hurts ceiling to be?  Watson? Prescott? Jackson? 

I tend to think Hurts ceiling is somewhere between 12-18 best QB in the league if everything pans out. Which isn’t some bum status. I’d be thrilled if he proved me wrong and his ceiling was consistently top 10. I was super high on watson when he came out. Think he was a better prospect than Hurts. Frankly thought it was idiotic he somehow fell to 12. It’s like the one move the texans actually nailed 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I tend to think Hurts ceiling is somewhere between 12-18 best QB in the league if everything pans out. Which isn’t some bum status. I’d be thrilled if he proved me wrong and his ceiling was consistently top 10. I was super high on watson when he came out. Think he was a better prospect than Hurts. Frankly thought it was idiotic he somehow fell to 12. It’s like the one move the texans actually nailed 

12-18 is fine if he has talent around him and he wins on a consistent basis.  I think his ceiling is slightly higher.  Top 10-12 QB potential after a few years, imo but he'll need the coaching and offensive weapons to get there.   If Sirianni is half the QB whisperer Andy Reid is (and even Doug Pederson and Frank Reich are, to a lesser extent) then his development should go well.  

4 hours ago, eagle45 said:

I've had some surprises watching the QB's in this draft class.  I had my pre-conceived notions based on scouting reports, chatter, and the highlights I had seen.  

Trevor Lawrence is the clear #1 overall, but I really don't see him as a "generational prospect."  100% of the generational QB's were not even viewed as such when they were prospects.  He could certainly be headed to the HOF, but the gap between him as a prospect and top 5 pick QB's in prior years isn't really in line with what others might lead you to believe.

Really wasn't thrilled with Wilson.  His name jumped into the top QB conversation overnight.  That's a red flag.  His play style is identical to Patrick Mahomes.  Mentioning Wilson and Mahomes in the same sentence is what will get him drafted #2 overall.  Per usual, I don't think this is going to go well for the Jets at all.  The Mahomes blueprint isn't something that is easy to recreate.  It may have worked a bit for Wilson at BYU, but I don't see that continuing in the pros.  There isn't a whole lot of pocket presence, methodical passing, or repeatable precision to his game.

Trey Lance is Carson Wentz 2.0...or Josh Allen, or Jordan Love.  Big arm, can make all the throws, great athlete.  But you've got to teach him everything else and it's anyone's guess how that will go.

I was surprised by Trask.  Every single scouting report basically describes him as a big, lumbering, low talent QB who was just along for the ride.  Everyone seems to question his arm strength.  I really wasn't seeing any functional deficit in arm strength compared to the QB's ranked at the top whose arm-talent has everyone salivating.  If not for his age, still not a deal breaker, I'd be very interested.  The biggest issue I saw with him, which no one really seems to mention, is an intermittent failure to set his feet in clean pockets.  Maybe that creates the impression of a weak arm, but both his flick-ability and overall zip seemed just fine to me...and likely better than fine.  We have his coach...so the Eagles should have a very accurate evaluation of this guy.

Mac Jones...well, he basically just had the best statistical passing season in NCAA history.  He was also potentially surrounded by the best supporting cast in NCAA history.  So what?  I'm more interested in someone who proves he can do everything with more than the guy who admirably does something with less.  He's accurate, has a feel for the game, and has proven that he can channel an otherworldly passing offense on his shoulders through his pocket passing.  What more do you want from a college QB prospect?  He belongs in the top 5 picks.

Davis Mills...sort of a 2012 Nick Foles type pick.  He looks like he has a nice feel for the pocket.  Arm strength looks nice.  Throws some good balls downfield.  Pure stats a bit behind the other guys, but he can command the pocket and make all the throws for sure.  Maybe that turns into something special, maybe he's a backup.  I'm not sure his chances of success are THAT much worse than any of the guys at the tippy top of this draft.  

Nice breakdown.

  I'm higher on Lawrence than you are.  When most scouts say "generational talent" at the QB position, they are basically referring to an NFL "ready/plug and play player" which is very rare for the QB position (as opposed to a position like offensive line, which usually has close to 6 or more "plug and play" prospects every year)... and Lawrence is that player.  The last college QB that fit that profile was probably Andrew Luck.  And before that it was probably Peyton Manning, then Elway.  So it is rare.

That said, once in the NFL his success (and development)  will be dependent on his coaching, the talent around him, etc.  Should be interesting to see how things pan out for him in Jacksonville, with Urban Meyer.  Probably not the best situation to go into since Meyer will be learning the NFL game as well but if Meyer lets Bevell (offensive coordinator, 20 years NFL experience) run the offense for him, I can see them having better success than previous college to NFL coaches had, since most historically were usually "offensive minded" vs "defense minded".

I'm also slightly higher on Wilson than you are.  That said, I think Wilson will need an Andy Reid type coach in order to have anywhere near the success Mahomes has had at the NFL level.  Does anyone doubt that Mahomes would likely be a different player had his talent not been developed by Reid?  There's only a handful of coaches in the NFL that can develop super talented but raw QB's into MVP players. 

-I think Lance is talented but like you said, he's raw.  His ceiling could be a Carson Wentz type player but it's probably going to take him a few years to get there.  And Wentz was actually much more "polished" than Lance when he came out.  

-I think Trask could end up being the sleeper pick of the year.  With the right coaching, development, etc I can see his ceiling as being a solid starting NFL QB in a few years.  At worst, he will likely be a very solid #2 for years.  If he's there in the 3rd round, I wouldn't have any issues if the Eagles took a shot at him.  Low risk/high reward player, imo.

-Totally agree with your breakdown of Mac Jones.  

I'll have to take a look at Mills, it's the first I've really heard about him.  

Trask will be the worst of the bunch IMO , don’t like him at all as a pro

Mills ,Mond and Franks are 3 guys I like , and I would take a shot on , Mills and Mond as early as red 2 , Franks 4th rd area 

5 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

Caplan in his podcast this week said he is hearing that there is no chance that Trey Lance goes in the top 10. DAL and NYG are definitely not drafting him, if he is there at #12, you gotta wonder about Howie pulling the trigger.

They just got burned by one bison , don’t think they chance it on another .

that said I think he goes top 10

7 hours ago, eagle45 said:

I was watching some stuff on Stanford QB Davis Mills and WR #13 just kept standing out...I just kept shaking my head and saying "we drafted the wrong big contested catch WR from Stanford."

That's Simi Fehoko. He is in this draft.  He's 6'4" and ran 4.37.

Despite his size,  I feel like we can run screens and quick hitters for him and he can run after the catch.  I think he's a fit for our offense and I'd take him in the middle rounds. 

Wentz will have to be 2020 bad to be benched for Eason. Which is unlikely under Reich and a solid OL.

If that happens, we're lucky to have gotten a 2nd and 3rd for him.

5 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

This board seems to be really high on Lance.  The guy has the talent but he's raw.   I doubt he starts his rookie year and if he does, it will likely be well into the season.  2 year project, imo. 

Yeah, that’s the impression I get — huge talent but super raw. He’s only 20 years old though, so even if he’s not a starter for his first two years, he’ll still be good to go by 22. At #12 I’d take that chance without hesitation assuming his background, work ethic, interviews, etc are acceptable.

The only way the Eagles look like idiots on the Wentz trade is if he goes back to 2017, which would be shocking.

If hes simply good, they get first and 3rd round picks...which is a great return under the circumstances.

If Wentz doesn’t do enough to generate a first round pick, then they are lucky they got anything at all.

I don't really think of that trade as a 3rd and 2nd that conditionally becomes a 1 if Wentz hits certain incentives.  I think of it more as a 3rd and a 1st that conditionally bumps back to a 2 if Wentz proves once and for all that he can't be a starting QB in the NFL (either benched or another major season derailing injury).

Listening to the ITB podcast and Caplan said he talked to a guy who coached with Gannon who said the defense will be a lot of cover 2 and cover 3 with disguised coverages and blitzes. 

That makes a top half of round 1 corner an iffy proposition in my opinion. 

It’s funny with "Trey Lance is so raw” take when he’s probably played in a more pro style and taken snaps from under center than any other QB in this class.

2 hours ago, Original Sin said:

They just got burned by one bison , don’t think they chance it on another .

that said I think he goes top 10

Beast l. Just read up on Tay. Ran a 4.44. Big kid. Didn’t know he opted out. Great fit for birds zone scheme. Where do you see him landing. I’m seeing fifth round. 

I know a lot of people are really high on Treyvon Moehrig but just based on watching their tapes, I really like the way this Andre Cisco guy from Syracuse plays safety and think his play popped off tape way more than Moehrig.  Cisco is about 7 months removed from a torn ACL (Howie special!).  Wonder where that puts him in the draft.  If he's 100% healthy and his performance doesn't drop, I'd take him in a heartbeat. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I know a lot of people are really high on Treyvon Moehrig but just based on watching their tapes, I really like the way this Andre Cisco guy from Syracuse plays safety and think his play popped off tape way more than Moehrig.  Cisco is about 7 months removed from a torn ACL (Howie special!).  Wonder where that puts him in the draft.  If he's 100% healthy and his performance doesn't drop, I'd take him in a heartbeat. 

 

 

I read a lot about how he made a lot of big plays but gave up a ton too. 

23 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The only way the Eagles look like idiots on the Wentz trade is if he goes back to 2017, which would be shocking.

If hes simply good, they get first and 3rd round picks...which is a great return under the circumstances.

If Wentz doesn’t do enough to generate a first round pick, then they are lucky they got anything at all.

Yep. 2018/2019 Wentz is not worth the trouble. 2017 Wentz returning would be damning to the organization, but it's about as likely as Josh Sweat having 15 sacks next season.

I saw a more athletic, even less refined version of Carson Wentz when I watched Trey Lance, and it had nothing to do with the North Dakota State connection. The Kaepernick comparison seems super lazy and based on body type rather than play style.

17 minutes ago, uncphillyfan said:

Beast l. Just read up on Tay. Ran a 4.44. Big kid. Didn’t know he opted out. Great fit for birds zone scheme. Where do you see him landing. I’m seeing fifth round. 

5th rd ? Be a steal there , I think more like rd 3

he loves playing press man 

7 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Yep. 2018/2019 Wentz is not worth the trouble. 2017 Wentz returning would be damning to the organization, but it's about as likely as Josh Sweat having 15 sacks next season.

 2018/2019 Wentz was a top 10 QB in the NFL. 

18 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I know a lot of people are really high on Treyvon Moehrig but just based on watching their tapes, I really like the way this Andre Cisco guy from Syracuse plays safety and think his play popped off tape way more than Moehrig.  Cisco is about 7 months removed from a torn ACL (Howie special!).  Wonder where that puts him in the draft.  If he's 100% healthy and his performance doesn't drop, I'd take him in a heartbeat. 

 

 

I’m a big fan of Sterns and Gillespie at S