3 minutes ago, greend said:

Yes, I for one was willing to do just that. That said it doesn't mean that Howie and Doug don't need to be held accountable, does it?

Howie is a victim of all the people hired under him.  He's never at fault, he's just doing what those people want.  Deep down, Howie is a genius who's never made a mistake in his entire life.  He's an amazing football and business mind, who's evaluations and calculations always work... but he always likes to help the people around him feel like they are valuable contributors to the process... so he just goes along with their wishes against his better judgement.  He can't be held responsible for trying to make people happy and feeling fulfilled.    He's just a really nice fellow.

3 minutes ago, greend said:

I honestly wouldn't care if he stayed if he would/could change and had a great staff beneath him (change would include him never calling plays again). If there was a solid plan going forward than I would argue that both Howie and Doug deserve the chance to dig themselves out of this hole. But I doubt there is any real change out of either of them

Nah, the trouble with the 'great staff beneath him' is what happened after 2017... they leave for other gigs.   

16 minutes ago, austinfan said:

It won a SB, then got back to the playoffs the next two years with a legitimate shot at going deep into the playoffs.

People are overreacting to an injury plagued bad season on a team everyone knew had to start a rebuild at some point.

Before we won a SB, people were willing to do anything to win one, even if it meant years wandering through the desert.

Well, welcome to the NFL desert folks.

They squeaked into the playoffs in 2019 because of a bad division. They still had a shot at the division in 2020 because of how historically bad it was

People are NOT overreacting to the injuries

Do we know what time they are meeting today?  

Best case today, Howie and DP gone.

Worst case, DP convinces Lurie that Press Taylor is legitimate and is hired as the OC.

What's going to happen?  DP fired and Howie gets to continue running the show.

Might have to take a year off if Press Taylor is our OC. Good grief.

I would still watch, but it would be abysmal each and every week.

23 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

100% true.  

 

Lurie is the biggest problem right now, because he's created this culture of super-collaboration where no one is truly held accountable, until he says so and then he makes a move.  It's gross.  

Absolutely true. My fear is that Lurie is the real problem, because no one can fire him. My hope is that Lurie will realize this and step back with his next coach and GM. 

Exactly how would have anyone done the last three years differently. And don't give me 20/20 hindsight drafting and signings. Everyone is a 20/20 hindsight genius.

Eagles would probably have beat Seattle if Clowney doesn't take out Wentz. They had a shot at beating NO if Jeffrey makes that catch. That's all you ask for, is a real shot.

The Chip drafts were the killer: 2014/2015, the guys who would be in their peak seasons the last three years - the guys still in the league from those drafts:

Agholor, Rowe, Hicks, Matthews, Watkins, Allen. Rowe was a coaching miss, Agholor had his best season away from Pederson, Hicks couldn't stay healthy.

Only one player from the 2016 draft is out of the league, Wentz, Seumalo, Smallwood, Vaitai, Countess, Mills, Walker

Five of eight players from the 2017 draft are still playing: Barnett, Jones, Douglas, Hollins, Gerry

The five players from the 2018 draft are still playing: Goedert, Maddox, Sweat, Pryor, Mailata

Too early to judge the 2019/2020 drafts, how do judge Dillard for example, you can't evaluate the odds of a bicep tear two years after the draft. If Dillard is the starting LT, they hit on two of five picks. 2020 everyone played, even Thornhill who was picked up off waivers.

Sullivan (UDFA 2018) is starting elsewhere.

Since 2016, we've produced a lot of starters, unfortunately many for other teams - and that's primarily on the coaches.

 

41 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Douglas and Weidl were those guys. Brought in specifically for personnel evaluation and the draft.

As far as the "strong GM" - how many franchises have been deep sixed by strong GMs who "knew what they were doing b/c they were real football men." There's no right way to construct a winning organization, only right people.

As far as "bad contracts" that list begins and ends with Jeffrey, who I think they overrated, but was that Pederson begging for him, or Howie forcing him on Peddy?

DeSean, might have been a little nostalgia, but he's also the most dangerous deep threat in the NFL when healthy - a gamble but not stupid - DeSean is the kind of player that can put you over the top in the playoffs. A luxury item for a team trying to return to the SB.

Malik was just bad luck, very durable one gap DT who got benched b/c new DC went to two gap system, then comes here and immediately gets injured. That's not a bad move, that's just bad luck. Same with Wallace, who never missed a game until he was signed by the Eagles. Maybe they need to burn a bushel of sage in the Linc.

Backloading deals with your top players, that's the only way to keep the window open, otherwise you have to let players walk and can't sign anyone. The combination of two bad drafts by Chip and bad player development (all those Eagles starting for other teams), left few options - patch or rebuild.

No, Weidl and Douglas set the draft boards. They don’t pick the players. Howie does. 

37 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I got a sneak peak of Lurie's meeting agenda for today.

 

 

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Exactly how would have anyone done the last three years differently. And don't give me 20/20 hindsight drafting and signings. Everyone is a 20/20 hindsight genius.

Eagles would probably have beat Seattle if Clowney doesn't take out Wentz. They had a shot at beating NO if Jeffrey makes that catch. That's all you ask for, is a real shot.

The Chip drafts were the killer: 2014/2015, the guys who would be in their peak seasons the last three years - the guys still in the league from those drafts:

Agholor, Rowe, Hicks, Matthews, Watkins, Allen. Rowe was a coaching miss, Agholor had his best season away from Pederson, Hicks couldn't stay healthy.

Only one player from the 2016 draft is out of the league, Wentz, Seumalo, Smallwood, Vaitai, Countess, Mills, Walker

Five of eight players from the 2017 draft are still playing: Barnett, Jones, Douglas, Hollins, Gerry

The five players from the 2018 draft are still playing: Goedert, Maddox, Sweat, Pryor, Mailata

Too early to judge the 2019/2020 drafts, how do judge Dillard for example, you can't evaluate the odds of a bicep tear two years after the draft. If Dillard is the starting LT, they hit on two of five picks. 2020 everyone played, even Thornhill who was picked up off waivers.

Sullivan (UDFA 2018) is starting elsewhere.

Since 2016, we've produced a lot of starters, unfortunately many for other teams - and that's primarily on the coaches.

 

If you ask what we would do differently in the past three years and then immediately say that the 2019 and 2020 drafts are too early to judge, you’re making a pretty unfair argument. 

Even if you can’t judge in totality, it’s easy to judge the process behind a draft that leads you to a backup QB in Round 2 and a LB light years from playing in Round 3. 

So this meeting is about Doug's coaching staff at least that is what it seems from the whispers?   Doug wants to hire from within and Lurie hates that idea.  I can see that Lurie wants to have a face 2 face converstaion about that and then if Doug still wants to go forward I think Doug will be gone.   Funny how everyone wants Press Taylor fired because as a QB coach our QBs have gotten worse but Doug wants to promote him to OC?  WTF is going on in Dougs head?  I really think Doug wants out between his decision all year long and now this coaching crap he has to be making these decisions because he wants out.

 

Doug to the Jets for a 3rd get it done. 

28 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Not just that.  But there were a bunch of players on the roster in 2017 that had career years.  

Wentz

Agholor

Kendricks

Bradham

Vaitai

Clement (especially the SB)

Patrick Robinson

 

I'm sure there is some I am forgetting.  

That's how Super Bowl runs normally go, IMO.  

30 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

They squeaked into the playoffs in 2019 because of a bad division. They still had a shot at the division in 2020 because of how historically bad it was

People are NOT overreacting to the injuries

It could be said that the Eagles underreacted due to the lack of quality teams in the division.

I think it's clear what they are doing, or trying to do with Doug.

Doug is a reputable HC who is capable of leading a team and maintaining the respect of the locker room.  He also came in here, initially, as a 2nd/3rd tier candidate who has demonstrated a willingness to be highly deferential to the FO in vision, in personnel, and in coaching staff.  And he hasn't done a very good job the last few years.  No one would think Lurie is crazy if he fired Doug.

So they now have a viable NFL HC in a position of vulnerability.  "Doug, if you don't do X/Y/Z, you will be let go."

Howie is going to be HC of this team by proxy.  Everyone talks about limiting his power and role in things this offseason; it's going to increase.

These little organized chats are Lurie and Howie figuring out how reliably they can pull Doug's strings...or if they need to find a new 3rd tier candidate just happy to get the job who will go along with their plan.

 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

 

I think that's a pretty good hire. Didn't work out as a head coach for him but I'm sure he'll do fine as a DC.

 

9 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

If you ask what we would do differently in the past three years and then immediately say that the 2019 and 2020 drafts are too early to judge, you’re making a pretty unfair argument. 

Even if you can’t judge in totality, it’s easy to judge the process behind a draft that leads you to a backup QB in Round 2 and a LB light years from playing in Round 3. 

He's just trolling everyone.  Let it go.

Just now, metal said:

I think that's a pretty good hire. Didn't work out as a head coach for him but I'm sure he'll do fine as a DC.

Every time Quinn gave up more control of the defense the defense got better in Atlanta. Maybe he was spread too thin, but that would bother me if we hired him. 

12 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Exactly how would have anyone done the last three years differently. And don't give me 20/20 hindsight drafting and signings. Everyone is a 20/20 hindsight genius.

We went over this at the time.  But, I wouldn't have resigned Jeffery.  I would have signed Allen Robinson.  Prior to 2017, I wouldn't have drafted Sydney Jones in Round 2... I would have drafted Chris Godwin there.  I wouldn't have brought in Desean before 2019... I wouldn't have drafted JJAW.  I wouldn't have drafted Reagor.  I wouldn't have dumped Torry Smith for Mike Wallace.

WR position in 2018 = Allen Robinson, Chris Godwin and Nelson Agholor.
2019 = Allen Robinson, Chris Godwin and Nelson Agholor.
2020 = Allen Robinson, Chris Godwin and Justin Jefferson.    

 

None of that would have cost more than what they did, and none of that would have hurt the rest of what has been done.  Jones provided a big fat ZERO here.  Robinson would have cost about the exact same as Jeffery, but without the backstabbing.  And Godwin would have had 2017 to learn on the bench getting some snaps (like Marcus Johnson did, but maybe a bit more) and they move on with a young WR corps of Godwin and Jefferson when Robinson can't go anymore.  

 

That was easy.   (And you can go back and check my posts in the past if you want to.  Sydney Jones made sense as a risk in Round 3, not Round 2.  But, I was high on Robinson and Godwin for a LONG time before they were drafted, and wanted Robinson for a while afterwards.

 

None of this makes sense if you want a healthy organization.

We have a coach we don’t trust to hire assistants. 

Our owner doesn’t like his answers on how to improve the offense and gave him extra time to come up with better answers.

All of this after forcing or strongly urging outside voices on Pederson that led to a cratering of our offense?

Just rip the bandaid off. It’s time for everyone to move on. 

I would like to know if the 12 personnel emphasis came from Doug or Howie.  The combination of 12 personnel with a possession "power forward" X wr who moves like a TE...I'd also like to know who signed off on that one.

While I prefer NEITHER, one can make a defensible argument for one or the other...not both, not together.  Doing so represents a fatal lack of understanding of the direction of the NFL.

I actually blame that decision on torpedoing the foundation and future of this offense more than anything else.

Interesting thought. Unload a bad contract with Doug to clear space. 

7 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Meh.  It's more about teams building the right way.  Not hitting on some FA signings and then hoping it is a sustainable formula.  You build from the inside out.  QB and both Lines!  We didn't do that.  We got lucky with a great run in 2017.  It's pretty rare for a team to win the SB and then collapse like this only 3 years later, unless you have a QB and coach retire.  

You build the right way, and you are ready to compete... a couple guys bust out and you are ready to go.  But we lost Reich and DeFilippo.  And our QB regressed.   So, that fits.

7 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Not clear out the entire medical staff after we win the SB.

Not continue to pay guys like Alshon, Desean Jackson, Jason Peters, Darren Sproles

Not trade for Golden Tate

Not Trade for Avery

Not draft a TE in 2018 just because the Cowboys wanted him when you have only 1 pick in the first 3 rounds. 

Not draft JJAW.

Not continue to trot out Mack Hollins on offense.

Not draft Clayton Thorson

Don't reach in the first 3 rounds of the 2020 draft

In short, I wouldn't have let Howie Roseman make draft picks

I wouldn't have meddled in the offensive coaching decisions.  Either you trust the HC or he's not your guy. 

Not let LJ Fort go and start for someone else.

Fired anyone who thought Nate Gerry was an NFL linebacker.

Haloti Ngata???   WHY?

Mike Wallace??? WHY?

Donnel Pumphrey???!!  Have you seen the list of running backs that were taking in that draft and he was who we traded up for? 

Nickel Robey Coleman is awful!  

 

 

I know there is a lot more.  I should have kept a journal.  

 

Yea, you don't need hindsight to not make those moves.  All were terrible.

Only one I would argue is LJ Fort.  They just shouldn't have signed him in the first place.  He's clearly a 3-4 linebacker.