On 6/10/2021 at 6:08 PM, ManuManu said:

 

I'll probably never forget the dog masks

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

I wrote a big post about TE about a week ago mentioning just this.  I think Mark Andrews sets the market.  He's so important for Lamar Jackson.  

How much are the Ravens going to have to pay Lamar Jackson if Dak got $40M per season?  Jackson has had a demonstrably better career thus far and has done sweet nothing at playoff time.

There’s a team headed for cap hell 

Goedert is a top-10 TE, easy. He just needs to stay healthy. 

14 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Goedert is a top-10 TE, easy. He just needs to stay healthy. 

I don’t think it’s so easy. I think he’s right in a cluster of guys you can make a case for that could possibly push him out. 

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I don’t think it’s so easy. I think he’s right in a cluster of guys you can make a case for that could possibly push him out. 

Go on…

16 minutes ago, Swoop said:

I think you overrate how important tight end is. I'd argue there are several positions more valuable. If the guy can block and has steady hands, that's enough. At least in my opinion.

My point is, seeing as how they have massive holes in their defense after this season, it would be nice to spend money in FA and do some patching there, rather than handicap themselves further with a Tight End who's "going to break out" and still hasn't. 

 

I really don't.  But you obviously underrated it in the modern game. Let's take a look at the teams that made the Super Bowl in recent history and try to spot a repeating theme:

Chiefs (Kelce) vs Bucs (Gronk) - 2 great TEs

Chiefs (Kelce) vs 49ers (Kittle) - 2 great TEs

Rams (Higbee) vs Patriots (Gronk) - 1 great TE that made the biggest play in the game. 

Eagles (Ertz) vs Patriots (Gronk) - 2 great TEs

Falcons (Tamme) vs Patriots (Gronk) - 1 great TE

Panthers (Olson) vs Broncos (Daniel's) - 1 great TE

Seahawks (Wilson) vs Patriots (Gronk) - 1 great TE

 

Of the past 7 Super Bowls the only team that won without a great TE was the Broncos over the Panthers and that was a game won purely on an all time great defense. If you want to build a great contending team in today's NFL then having a great TE is a very important part of building that contending team. 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

Go on…

Kelce, Kittle, Waller, Andrews definitely ahead. Next I’d put Hockenson and Gesicki ahead going into 2021. So we’re already at 7. Next comes the cluster of Goedert, Gronk, Ertz, Thomas, Fant. That doesn’t include Pitts whose already in the HOF. I’d say he’s top 10 but I wouldn’t be shocked if someone had him just outside. 

9 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

I really don't.  But you obviously underrated it in the modern game. Let's take a look at the teams that made the Super Bowl in recent history and try to spot a repeating theme:

Chiefs (Kelce) vs Bucs (Gronk) - 2 great TEs

Chiefs (Kelce) vs 49ers (Kittle) - 2 great TEs

Rams (Higbee) vs Patriots (Gronk) - 1 great TE that made the biggest play in the game. 

Eagles (Ertz) vs Patriots (Gronk) - 2 great TEs

Falcons (Tamme) vs Patriots (Gronk) - 1 great TE

Panthers (Olson) vs Broncos (Daniel's) - 1 great TE

Seahawks (Wilson) vs Patriots (Gronk) - 1 great TE

 

Of the past 7 Super Bowls the only team that won without a great TE was the Broncos over the Panthers and that was a game won purely on an all time great defense. If you want to build a great contending team in today's NFL then having a great TE is a very important part of building that contending team. 

So if you're building a team from scratch and have the opportunity to take 10 elite players at any position, you'd have TE among one of those ten? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Eagles need to sign Matisse Thybulle to play CB. 

2 minutes ago, Swoop said:

So if you're building a team from scratch and have the opportunity to take 10 elite players at any position, you'd have TE among one of those ten? I sure as hell wouldn't.

 

Yeah I probably would.  But I know I 100% for sure wouldn't be getting rid of a blue chip TE prospect at 26 years old just ready to enter his prime. 

8 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Kelce, Kittle, Waller, Andrews definitely ahead. Next I’d put Hockenson and Gesicki ahead going into 2021. So we’re already at 7. Next comes the cluster of Goedert, Gronk, Ertz, Thomas, Fant. That doesn’t include Pitts whose already in the HOF. I’d say he’s top 10 but I wouldn’t be shocked if someone had him just outside. 

He’s better than both Ertz and Gesicki. No doubt in my mind. His ability to block sets him apart on my mind. Same goes for Fant and Thomas. 

Korkmasz!!

2 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

Can Goedert be a core player as part of a nucleus?  To make that decision you have to give him a chance to produce as a TE1 (80-90 receptions) and he won't have a chance to do that with Ertz here.  Ertz is over 30 and either didn't care last season, or he's really degrading.

I think 60-70 is the norm from a TE1...unless you're the focal point of an O like Kelce or Kittle. 

Sixers had some pretty awful stretches there but are absolutely dominating on both ends.  Also how old is Lou Williams at this point?!

24 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Yeah I probably would.  But I know I 100% for sure wouldn't be getting rid of a blue chip TE prospect at 26 years old just ready to enter his prime. 

That would be a mistake. Tight End is not nearly as valuable as you make it out to be.

Just now, Swoop said:

That would be a mistake. Tight End is not nearly as valuable as you make it out to be.

 

Except it is.  There's a reason the Patriots just went out and invested in the top two TEs on the free agent market.  There's a reason the Falcons just took a TE at 4 which is now the highest ever a TE has been taken. 

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

Goedert is a top-10 TE, easy. He just needs to stay healthy. 

The following are all FA after this season.  Not including the older vets in Ertz, Gronk and Graham.

-Mark Andrews

-Mike Gesicki

-Eric Ebron

-David NJoku

-Gerald Everett 

-Evan Engram

-Hayden Hurst

-OJ Howard

That's 8 tight ends who are available next season who are either better or on par with Dallas Goedert and the roughly the same age.

Then you have the true top tight ends:

-Travis Kelce

-George Kittle

-Darren Waller

-Hunter Henry

-Jonnu Smith

Followed by up and coming:

-Robert Tonyan

-Kyle Pitts

-TJ Hockenson

-Logan Thomas

Bolded are players I believe are better than DG.  

Dallas Goedert hasn't proven a thing yet.  The biggest play he's made was the one that got called back against Dallas.  I like Goedert, he's one of the few young talented players we have but I think he's also been severely overrated.  I don't want to sign him to a massive contract at all.  

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Dallas Goedert hasn't proven a thing yet.  The biggest play he's made was the one that got called back against Dallas.  I like Goedert, he's one of the few young talented players we have but I think he's also been severely overrated.  I don't want to sign him to a massive contract at all.  

No offense, but your take is just stupid.

no particular order , and some guys just don’t see the ball as often as others , too many other weapons on the team 

Hockenson

Gesicki

Andrews

Tonyan

Gronk

Kittles

Kelce

Fant 

Henry

So I don’t think it’s a stretch to say Godert is near top 10 

 

1 minute ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

No offense, but your take is just stupid.

what take is that?   That DG isn't worth the money?

4 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

The following are all FA after this season.  Not including the older vets in Ertz, Gronk and Graham.

-Mark Andrews

-Mike Gesicki

-Eric Ebron

-David NJoku

-Gerald Everett 

-Evan Engram

-Hayden Hurst

-OJ Howard

That's 8 tight ends who are available next season who are either better or on par with Dallas Goedert and the roughly the same age.

Then you have the true top tight ends:

-Travis Kelce

-George Kittle

-Darren Waller

-Hunter Henry

-Jonnu Smith

Followed by up and coming:

-Robert Tonyan

-Kyle Pitts

-TJ Hockenson

-Logan Thomas

Bolded are players I believe are better than DG.  

Dallas Goedert hasn't proven a thing yet.  The biggest play he's made was the one that got called back against Dallas.  I like Goedert, he's one of the few young talented players we have but I think he's also been severely overrated.  I don't want to sign him to a massive contract at all.  

Howard needs to stay healthy , he was looking good early last year before injury ,he just won’t see the targets most TEs will see , too many other weapons on the team

51 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Except it is.  There's a reason the Patriots just went out and invested in the top two TEs on the free agent market.  There's a reason the Falcons just took a TE at 4 which is now the highest ever a TE has been taken. 

The Falcons took Pitts at 4 because he was the best available, can more likely than not play outside and couldn't find a partner to trade down with.

22 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

The following are all FA after this season.  Not including the older vets in Ertz, Gronk and Graham.

-Mark Andrews

-Mike Gesicki

-Eric Ebron

-David NJoku

-Gerald Everett 

-Evan Engram

-Hayden Hurst

-OJ Howard

That's 8 tight ends who are available next season who are either better or on par with Dallas Goedert and the roughly the same age.

Then you have the true top tight ends:

-Travis Kelce

-George Kittle

-Darren Waller

-Hunter Henry

-Jonnu Smith

Followed by up and coming:

-Robert Tonyan

-Kyle Pitts

-TJ Hockenson

-Logan Thomas

Bolded are players I believe are better than DG.  

Dallas Goedert hasn't proven a thing yet.  The biggest play he's made was the one that got called back against Dallas.  I like Goedert, he's one of the few young talented players we have but I think he's also been severely overrated.  I don't want to sign him to a massive contract at all.  

Thomas is 8 months younger than Ertz. He had a good season but I don’t know how much you will be able to call him an up and comer. Also disagree on Smith and Njoku, neither of them have proved they are anything but second string TE’s.

28 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

The following are all FA after this season.  Not including the older vets in Ertz, Gronk and Graham.

-Mark Andrews

-Mike Gesicki

-Eric Ebron

-David NJoku

-Gerald Everett 

-Evan Engram

-Hayden Hurst

-OJ Howard

That's 8 tight ends who are available next season who are either better or on par with Dallas Goedert and the roughly the same age.

Then you have the true top tight ends:

-Travis Kelce

-George Kittle

-Darren Waller

-Hunter Henry

-Jonnu Smith

Followed by up and coming:

-Robert Tonyan

-Kyle Pitts

-TJ Hockenson

-Logan Thomas

Bolded are players I believe are better than DG.  

Dallas Goedert hasn't proven a thing yet.  The biggest play he's made was the one that got called back against Dallas.  I like Goedert, he's one of the few young talented players we have but I think he's also been severely overrated.  I don't want to sign him to a massive contract at all.  

Not sure Henry and Jonnu Smith are top TE's.  Right now its Kelce, Kittle and Waller.  

I do agree that Goedert hasnt proven anything. Maybe if Ertz is gone and he's the clear cut #1 guy then maybe he can show what he has.  

I was looking for him to ball out last year but he disappointed.  Maybe getting put to sleep at that bar in the offseason messed with his head a little.

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

The following are all FA after this season.  Not including the older vets in Ertz, Gronk and Graham.

-Mark Andrews

-Mike Gesicki

-Eric Ebron

-David NJoku

-Gerald Everett 

-Evan Engram

-Hayden Hurst

-OJ Howard

That's 8 tight ends who are available next season who are either better or on par with Dallas Goedert and the roughly the same age.

Then you have the true top tight ends:

-Travis Kelce

-George Kittle

-Darren Waller

-Hunter Henry

-Jonnu Smith

Followed by up and coming:

-Robert Tonyan

-Kyle Pitts

-TJ Hockenson

-Logan Thomas

Bolded are players I believe are better than DG.  

Dallas Goedert hasn't proven a thing yet.  The biggest play he's made was the one that got called back against Dallas.  I like Goedert, he's one of the few young talented players we have but I think he's also been severely overrated.  I don't want to sign him to a massive contract at all.  

Yikes. Many of your boldest players aren’t close to as good as Goedert. Ebron, Thomas, Njoku (seriously, wtf), Tonyan. Fun fact: Goedert is younger than the up and coming Tonyan and Thomas.

Blocking matters. Goedert might be one of the best three or four two-way TEs. 

The only thing limiting Goedert has been health and Ertz. 

Tonyan had a heck of a season , 11 TDS on 3.6 targets per game , Kielce need almost 10 targets per game to reach his 11 TDS