4 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Don't give me the two subsequent playoff seasons after that.  Both of them we backed in.  I am so tired of people hanging their hat on a 10-6 and 9-7 playoff appearance, in a crap division.  A SB winning team better damn well make the playoffs the following year.  Doug got fired after one really bad down year too, so why not Howie?  The judgement on Howie should be based on the draft....plain and simple.  Name one player on this team under the age of 25, other than Miles Sanders, that has proven to be a good-great player in the NFL.  Just look at his drafts since 2017.  Just look at the ridiculous contracts they have given to old washed up players since 2017....because of the crap drafting.  If they have a good year this coming year, it's not because of Howie..that is for damn sure.  It's because they lucked into a really good young coaching staff.  Because you know darn well, it wasn't part of their grand scheme to fire DP and jettison Wentz after 2017.  Gannon, Steichen and Johnson might help lift this team to being a pretty decent team.  But it's not like Sirianni and the rest of the coaches were handed a good roster by Lowie.  

Do you think Howie had any say into the hiring of the coaching staff? Ultimately Jeff makes the call, but I'd think Howie had some input.

And yes, the two years post Super Bowl weren't great. We got in due to a crappy division, no argument there. But if they are actually good this year, I'd imagine it would be because some of the players Howie has acquired are playing well. Let's set the bar at a playoff appearance. I think the majority in here would be surprised if that happens, myself included. That would mean that some of the under 25's show something this year, I would have to think. In that situation, again, I don't get how you could fire Howie.

16 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

You gotta admit.  That was as big of an outlier as they get.  He's completely destroyed this team since 2017.  

Dude, they went to the playoffs 3 straight years. I'm not a fan of Howie either and I agree with most of your points, but that's not an outlier.

2 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Lurie and Howie are f-ing clueless.  The Eagles winning 11 games this year would be similar to us winning the SB in 2017.  It would take the players to all gel at the right time, a large portion of the team to have their best years of their careers and divine intervention.  My father helped us out in 2017.  The best thing for this team is to lose....a lot of games this year.  And Lurie realize he needs to back off and replace Howie.  Then we would be loaded with draft picks and would hopefully have a real GM.  Not a bean counter who is the laughing stock of the league.  

And, uh?

52 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I think they keep five CBs at best.  Probably nine DBs and this depends a lot on McLeod’s health as to who stays.  The back up DBs are going to have to perform on STs. 

With who’s on the roster now, I could see only 5. If they add another (solid) CB I could see 6. Slay, ____, Maddox, McPhearson, (2 of Jacquet, Taylor, Scott)

44 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

You gotta admit.  That was as big of an outlier as they get.  He's completely destroyed this team since 2017.  

The Eagles have made the playoffs 3 times in the past 4 years. Last season's result is the biggest outlier.

19 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I lump them together.  Because honestly, Lurie is the real problem.  And I have to wonder that part of that is because Howie isn't the football guy that this franchise needs.  That's why Lurie feels compelled to intervene.  

I agree that Lurie's involvement recently has become more worrisome. And if we're being honest....what does it take to fire Howie? 0-17? Wentz as MVP? Otherwise I think we all know Jeff is keeping Howie around for at least another year. 

1 minute ago, bpac55 said:

Agree but was trying to keep at least one CB with some size and Scott, who for some reason I think they are going to try to find a role for.  

 

Well they did spend a 2023 6th on Scott.  He is a Maddox clone.  Figure they may well be battling for the nickel slot.  Frankly, I do think Maddox is a better outside CB than a slot.  What is funny is Zurlein comped Maddox for Scott.  Could be insurance against resigning Maddox.  Both have injury tendencies. 

1 hour ago, BigEFly said:

I project McPhearson as the CB2.  Look, all draft prognosticators project 4.5 CBs under 6’ tall as nickel backs.   Like Maddox, McPhearson primarily lined up as an outside corner in college.   His comp to me is Sheldon Brown, although about ten pounds lighter.  Similar speed, good tacklers (although Sheldon became a great tackler as he gained strength) good agility that tend not to get out of position. May need some safety help with speed receivers. Let Maddox and McPhearson battle for the CB2 and loser plays the slot.  Let the other back up CBs battle for the dime back, back up. 

Unpopular opinion, but I thought Brown was a better CB. Didn't give up a Td for like 1.5 seasons.

8 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I agree that Lurie's involvement recently has become more worrisome. And if we're being honest....what does it take to fire Howie? 0-17? Wentz as MVP? Otherwise I think we all know Jeff is keeping Howie around for at least another year. 

I think Lurie’s involvement is overstated.  Do I think he instructed Howie to keep the band together? Yes, but he wizened up quick enough to pull the trigger on a rebound and discard Doug and a broken Wentz for value.  It is his millions being spent, after all.  But I don’t think he gets down into the minutiae to the extent suggested. That said, he likes Howie more than I do by a great extent.  

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

You gotta admit.  That was as big of an outlier as they get.  He's completely destroyed this team since 2017.  

No you gotta admit last year was an outlier. Howie is 91-84-1 as a GM. That’s including Chip’s 7-9 year. 84-75-1. And a Super Bowl win and multiple playoff appearances.

Now if we remove 2017 and 2020 he is 67-61. Still a winning record without what we both think our outliers should be.

Since 2010 there are only 13 teams with winning records. The stats are in Howie’s favor regardless of how many coaches he’s had. Honestly it’s more impressive that he has a winning record with having 3 different coaches.

 

You can do a lot worse than Howie, 20+ teams have over the last decade. Most more than once.

No point speculating about the DBs until we see what Gannon is going to do on defense.

The fact that the only acquisition was Scott and a couple safeties, the only draft pick McPherson, tells me Gannon sees enough in the holdovers to patch together a secondary, he didn't have a lot of talent to work with in Indy as the DB coach but made it work. The resources on defense went primarily to the DL.

It may well be that he saw on film a bunch of DBs with enough talent to make it work if you gave them safety help  and allowed them to be more aggressive underneath, instead of leaving them on an island with 10 yard cushions.

 

14 minutes ago, austinfan said:

You can do a lot worse than Howie, 20+ teams have over the last decade. Most more than once.

No point speculating about the DBs until we see what Gannon is going to do on defense.

The fact that the only acquisition was Scott and a couple safeties, the only draft pick McPherson, tells me Gannon sees enough in the holdovers to patch together a secondary, he didn't have a lot of talent to work with in Indy as the DB coach but made it work. The resources on defense went primarily to the DL.

It may well be that he saw on film a bunch of DBs with enough talent to make it work if you gave them safety help  and allowed them to be more aggressive underneath, instead of leaving the one an island with 10 yard cushions.

 

Since we are on a speculation cruise, even though you suggest we don't speculate while speculating for a couple paragraphs, it is also possible he was told this is it, do the best you can and we won't hold it against you for now.  

9 minutes ago, austinfan said:

You can do a lot worse than Howie, 20+ teams have over the last decade. Most more than once.

No point speculating about the DBs until we see what Gannon is going to do on defense.

The fact that the only acquisition was Scott and a couple safeties, the only draft pick McPherson, tells me Gannon sees enough in the holdovers to patch together a secondary, he didn't have a lot of talent to work with in Indy as the DB coach but made it work. The resources on defense went primarily to the DL.

It may well be that he saw on film a bunch of DBs with enough talent to make it work if you gave them safety help  and allowed them to be more aggressive underneath, instead of leaving them on an island with 10 yard cushions.

 

Fact that he signed a S that was franchised last year, considered a day two trade for the CB they drafted and traded for a CB using some draft capital suggests that Gannon did not express satisfaction with the DBs available and that they spent some resources at the position. Granted the S is a one year fix.  
Fact they spent draft capital on DL suggests concerns about depth there after this year.  Fact he signed a LB that his LB coach is familiar with and drafted two more to go with two draft choices last year suggests concern about that position.  Fact that the Eagles drafted a DT that can play DE and a DT that can play NT  plus moved Avery to LB and drafted a stand up rush LB suggests something about Gannon’s D.  I think we will see some situational 3 down lineman with a stand up (joker?) rush LB seems likely.  

Maybe you see no point in speculating given we are three weeks out from seeing some install, but what’s the harm.  The Eagles have 9 CBs, 2 DBs (although PE.com’s labeling of players is suspect at best) and six Ss on the roster right now.   One of the most unsure positions is CB (probably accounts for some of the nine).  Makes sense we are discussing and speculating on this.

Dolphins announced they will have 14 open to the public TC practices and also are having joint practices with the Falcons and the Bears. 

Kind of annoying the Eagles are only doing 2 open practices all TC and no joint practices. 

32 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

I thought Harry was overdrafted.   Alshon Jeffery didn’t get a lot of separation either but used speed and size to box out.  I think that is what they hoped for JJAW, but his problem is his agility, IMHO.  He’s not boxing out PAC 10 DBs in the NFL.  I do think there can be a role for WR/TE tweeners but it is hard to justify a roster spot for them.  And I question if either Harry or JJAW have such great hands as to warrant a spot.  Just like failed speed receivers that can’t catch, the NFL bust trunk is full of big WRs/small TEs that can’t separate. 

9 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Dolphins announced they will have 14 open to the public TC practices and also are having joint practices with the Falcons and the Bears. 

Kind of annoying the Eagles are only doing 2 open practices all TC and no joint practices. 

I blame the cowpad spies and pats cheating for making Lurie and Howie so paranoid about hiding practices. 

18 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Dolphins announced they will have 14 open to the public TC practices and also are having joint practices with the Falcons and the Bears. 

Kind of annoying the Eagles are only doing 2 open practices all TC and no joint practices. 

It's pathetic how they've minimized fan involvement and interaction over the years.  I can't stand this owner anymore.  

17 minutes ago, hputenis said:

It's pathetic how they've minimized fan involvement and interaction over the years.  I can't stand this owner anymore.  

Agreed. I mean the sole reason I’d like to go is to give Howie the finger but yeah… F them 

21 minutes ago, hputenis said:

It's pathetic how they've minimized fan involvement and interaction over the years.  I can't stand this owner anymore.  

 

Yeah I don't get why it didn't open back up after Chip left.  Thought for sure that when Doug was hired they would go back to the old school style training camp. 

7 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Face it. 2017 was a special year.  The rest during Howie’s "reign” have been mediocre.   

Howie should trade himself to another team.

I get everyone discussing CB2, but one of my bigger concerns this season is Slay. I know he was banged up last season, but that further proves my point with him being 30 and on one of the most injury prone teams in the league. Let's not act like he's a sure-fire thing. He was pretty shaky last year. The secondary will be a disaster this year if they can't generate a top-tier pass rush. 

17 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

 

 

I’ll stick with the one season in franchise history that we went 13-3, had the 1st seed and won the Super Bowl, as the outlier.  You know, since it’s never happened.   But you all can wave the flag on those 10-6 and 9-7 playoff seasons.  Because they happen all the time.   Yeah, last year was a dumpster fire and certainly doesn’t happen often.  But if you didn’t see the downward trend after 2017, then you weren’t playing attention.  
 

Face it. 2017 was a special year.  The rest during Howie’s "reign” have been mediocre.   

I never once said that 2017 wasn’t an outlier as well as 2020. If you read my post you will see that I took both years out and Howie still has a winning record. Only 13 teams have a winning record since Howie took over. That’s not mediocre, it’s above average. I’ll take the long term stats to form my opinion over the overreactive short term. 

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

 

I think JJAW also led college football in contested catches. It was one of the reasons that supposedly the Eagles wanted him.  So, I think there is some truth to contested catches being a cautionary stat.  You want a WR who can catch a contested ball, but if they are almost always in a contested catch situations against CBs who will most likely get a desk job in a few years, then it should be a warning sign.

5 hours ago, TorontoEagle said:

Wait. IF, and it's a massive IF, Hurts performs at an All Pro level, the team reels off 11-12 wins and secures a home playoff game....you'd still want Howie fired? Why??

Yes. He got lucky one year. I want him gone.

3 hours ago, TorontoEagle said:

Ah yes, let's leave out the Super Bowl win. 

Lots of players and coaches contributed to that win way more than Howie and lots are gone

5 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Ok.  Then look at his long term track record of drafting or short term.  You pick.  Let me know what you find.  

 

Also, 67-61 would be an 8 year stretch.  Are you content with 6 games over .500 through 8 years?  That's a .523 winning %.  Which is worse than 8 years of 9-7.  And you're good with that???!!!  I'm not.  Not by a long shot.  

It’s better than 19 teams. If Howie gets fired we have a higher percentage chance of hiring someone worse than better. Obviously we want to win every game but compared to his peers he is doing above average.

Now when it comes to drafting I personally think that’s more of a coaching issue. Doug was holding players back vs developing them.