5 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

You’re quick 

I know

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Exactly.  It’s completely asinine for people to think Howie is the right guy to fix the mess he created.  The standard argument is, "Howie is great with managing the cap”.   Uhhhhh.  We are $65+ million over the cap.  Because of decisions HE made.  He would have to work a miracle to get under the cap.   And imagine what kind of roster we’ll have then.  He’s never had to work that kind of Cap magic.  So his cap work in the past isn’t relevant now!  Anyone who defends or compliments Howie should not be taken seriously.  

I haven't been able to follow all the news closely but wasn't this an intentional move to "win now", in part driven by Doug's desire to do so?

Look I don't want Howie as GM but he certainly knows what he's doing with cap. If they maxed out cap to win now then it was an intentional strategy. Blame the strategy, not the execution of that strategy.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

 

Afan's comment left you speechless, I see.

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Exactly.  It’s completely asinine for people to think Howie is the right guy to fix the mess he created.  The standard argument is, "Howie is great with managing the cap”.   Uhhhhh.  We are $65+ million over the cap.  Because of decisions HE made.  He would have to work a miracle to get under the cap.   And imagine what kind of roster we’ll have then.  He’s never had to work that kind of Cap magic.  So his cap work in the past isn’t relevant now!  Anyone who defends or compliments Howie should not be taken seriously.  

Who cares? The team probably should have been blown up after 2019, but either way, it was going to be a three year process, 3 drafts picking high, dumping most of the veterans and clearing out cap room. The cap will be cleared out by the end of 2022, given the next two seasons, exactly what free agent did you plan to sign to raise us from a 6 win team to a 10 win team?

Given the 2017 roster, it made sense backloading contracts to try and win now, that team wasn't sustainable over the long haul. The problem wasn't the contracts, but trying to make it work one year too long, much like the Flyers under Holmgren and the Phillies after 2012.  The day of reckoning was inevitable, which is why I amused by the overreaction, like one or two "briliiant" moves could turn this franchise around.

The collapse this season is actually advantageous, #6 and #38 picks, carte blanche to dump salaries and age, and a new HC who can be picked without the bacgage of the SB hanging over his head.

Let’s get a fiery head coach. What’s Jeff Garcia up to? 

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Let’s get a fiery head coach. What’s Jeff Garcia up to? 

I’m for Jim mora senior 

41 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Torrey Smith - Mike Wallace - DeSean. Smith worked for a year, Wallace was signed as a one year patch, just bad luck he got injured (the guy missed one game in 9 years), DeSean is a great deep threat, just signed him a year late.

🤦‍♂️   It's not bad luck when a 32 year old WR gets hurt.   Its called Law of Averages.  Older WRs get hurt more frequently and take longer to get back than younger WRs.  

Desean didn't need to be 'signed' at all. They traded for him and when trading for a player that's older, you don't take the risk free option you have being able to move on from the player without any cap penalty, and paint yourself into a corner by giving him a market rate contract.  You let him play out his contract and if the move fails it costs you almost nothing (6th round pick).   But, instead, Howie gave him a new contract at the same rate as a 26 year old WR... at the ripe old age of 32... knowing full well (as you yourself have admitted) that he was going to miss games, because he wasn't durable any more. 

 

Bad luck... lol  Older players get injured more... its not 'luck', its called reality.

21 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

HC - Larry Fitzgerald 

OC - Kevin Kolb 

DC - Urlacherzzzz 

Can’t get Larry out of the Airport

3 hours ago, RLC said:

The Eagles were never going to take DK Metcalf, no matter who the GM was. The medical staff said no. Many teams did this.

if they wanted to go for a sleeper, why not McLaurin or Diontae Johnson. We just have no luck. I would say AJ Brown but he went prior to the Sanders pick so it would of had to be a trade up. 

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Doug couldn’t make decisions on his own about the coaching staff.  So there’s no way his "desire” was leading the front office decisions.  

I'm not in the building and I don't know who had how much say in the strategy. My point is that once the (flawed) strategy was determined, Howie executed that strategy from a cap perspective. I'm just trying to make the point that we aren't in a cap hole because Howie didn't know what he was doing with the cap. The problem was the strategy and however they got to the point of going with that strategy.

13 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Who cares? The team probably should have been blown up after 2019, but either way, it was going to be a three year process, 3 drafts picking high, dumping most of the veterans and clearing out cap room. The cap will be cleared out by the end of 2022, given the next two seasons, exactly what free agent did you plan to sign to raise us from a 6 win team to a 10 win team?

Given the 2017 roster, it made sense backloading contracts to try and win now, that team wasn't sustainable over the long haul. The problem wasn't the contracts, but trying to make it work one year too long, much like the Flyers under Holmgren and the Phillies after 2012.  The day of reckoning was inevitable, which is why I amused by the overreaction, like one or two "briliiant" moves could turn this franchise around.

The collapse this season is actually advantageous, #6 and #38 picks, carte blanche to dump salaries and age, and a new HC who can be picked without the bacgage of the SB hanging over his head.

1. Because they waited one year too long to start the rebuild when they should’ve realized it like I did and a couple others on this board they got into a contract with Darius slay where they also gave up a third and fifth round pick. If it’s going to take you three years and those draft classes to get back to being a Super Bowl contender then by the time you get there Darius slay is going to be exiting his prime. That means you just wasted his prime years and have him here for a rebuild. What’s the point of that? The third and fifth round pick would’ve been more useful to the rebuild the Eagles were going to inevitably have to do. So trading assets and paying Darius slay to playing corner for a team in a three-year rebuild and by the time they get out of the rebuild he’s going to be exiting his prime is pretty much a waste of assets and cap money  

i’m glad you’re OK with wasting assets and cap space because they should have realized a rebuild was very likely after the 2019 season where they struggle to win a **** division

2.  And the Eagles have yet to make a brilliant move after the 2017 season.  So I’m just going to hope and pray that they finally make two brilliant moves to turn it all around. There’s more of a chance this continues down the same road that it’s been and even more of a regression. The last brilliant move they made was 4 years ago. 

Lurie didn't tell Reid or Chip who to hire. 

Doug Pederson NEEDED help filling out a staff. That's why he only wanted internal promotions. He lacked the connections and/or the ability to hire external candidates. He inherited his best coaches (Duce, Stoutland, Peelle). He was forced to take Schwartz. His best WR coach was Mike Groh, who was a Jeff Stoutland recommendation (coached together at Alabama).

Lurie/Howie wanted to keep Doug. They simply wanted external hires, which is what every other coaching staff in the NFL does. Doug couldn't handle it. 

Lurie/Howie may be meddlers, but they had no choice in this case. That's on Doug.

16 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

And pointed at and blamed others for starting the fire.   

"Howie didn't start the fire... it was always burning... "

22 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

 

You’ve just won $26.8M, Mitchell Trubisky 

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

You’ve just won $26.8M, Mitchell Trubisky 

Either that or pace is going to trade up a boatload of picks to pick some QB that is not good. Bears fans have as much as we do to look forward too. 

8 minutes ago, RLC said:

Lurie didn't tell Reid or Chip who to hire. 

Doug Pederson NEEDED help filling out a staff. That's why he only wanted internal promotions. He lacked the connections and/or the ability to hire external candidates. He inherited his best coaches (Duce, Stoutland, Peelle). He was forced to take Schwartz. His best WR coach was Mike Groh, who was a Jeff Stoutland recommendation (coached together at Alabama).

Lurie/Howie wanted to keep Doug. They simply wanted external hires, which is what every other coaching staff in the NFL does. Doug couldn't handle it. 

Lurie/Howie may be meddlers, but they had no choice in this case. That's on Doug.

They knew this when they hired him...

9 minutes ago, RLC said:

Lurie didn't tell Reid or Chip who to hire. 

Doug Pederson NEEDED help filling out a staff. That's why he only wanted internal promotions. He lacked the connections and/or the ability to hire external candidates. He inherited his best coaches (Duce, Stoutland, Peelle). He was forced to take Schwartz. His best WR coach was Mike Groh, who was a Jeff Stoutland recommendation (coached together at Alabama).

Lurie/Howie wanted to keep Doug. They simply wanted external hires, which is what every other coaching staff in the NFL does. Doug couldn't handle it. 

Lurie/Howie may be meddlers, but they had no choice in this case. That's on Doug.

It would be fair to say that he brought in his best coach... in Reich.   And if Pederson works with Stoutland, and Stoutland suggests Groh, wouldn't that be a 'connection' that you say that Pederson didn't have?    😕

 

They got external hires last year... did that work?    I must have missed it.   I thought it was a great big disaster.   But, maybe we were watching a different team this year.  

 

They seem to be meddlers, and botchers as well.

Yeah, I don't know. Doug brought Frank Reich here and reportedly Howie and Lurie were trying to fire Reich after 2016. So, I'm not sure it's entirely Doug's inability to assemble a staff.

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Either that or pace is going to trade up a boatload of picks to pick some QB that is not good. Bears fans have as much as we do to look forward too. 

Or, @Ace Nova gets his wish — and Mac Jones is the 20th overall pick in the 2021 NFL Draft

11 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

The point is, you don’t task the guy who got us here with getting us out of it.  The problem was not having enough quality young players to come in and contribute.  The poor drafting is what caused all the bad contracts for old injury prone players.  That was on Howie.  And no.  Most teams don’t win the SB and then completely collapse like we have.  That’s poor management.  Plain and simple.  Most teams that win the SB are contenders or at least competitive.  Save the Broncos, who won with two different old soon to be retired HOF QB’s.  Most well run franchises draft well and develop.  They don’t treat their roster like the 2012 Phillies.  That’s how front office people get fired.  Just not with the Eagles.  
 

But yeah. Who cares.  

On top of what you said they should’ve seen they needed a rebuild last year when they struggle to win a bad division.  I get they have had injuries but they weren’t that good of a team last year even if they didn’t get hurt. They were old, expensive and on the decline not on the rise. Carson Wentz playing as well as he did down the stretch in 2019 covered up a lot of their flaws. 

So when they got to the off-season they should’ve realize they needed to get younger then and start to rebuild. Not add two high price free agents like they were just two guys away from being a Super Bowl contender and ignoring the WR position until the draft when it was obvious it was the most pressing need with corner if they thought they were a contender which they weren’t. They weren’t and they declined even more.

Winning the division does not mean they were ascending. They were regressing cause it took a horrific division to win. So then they go and trade a third rounder and fifth rounder with both of those pics would have likely been more beneficial to the Eagles long time future then the immediate future. I Like slay.  The trade value if you were a true contender made sense. However the Eagles were far from being a true contender and now you’re going to waste the last 2 to 3 years of his prime and by the time you’re ready to compete again (if you do everything right)he’s going to be declined so the value of the 3rd and 5th round pick isn’t all that valuable to a rebuilding team. 

2 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

Yeah, I don't know. Doug brought Frank Reich here and reportedly Howie and Lurie were trying to fire Reich after 2016. So, I'm not sure it's entirely Doug's inability to assemble a staff.

They forced Sancardangello, and MARTY FREAKING MOURNINGWHEG on to him.   Marty?   More call backs to the past... seems that maybe Lurie and Howie don't have enough connections around the league, as they always seem to go back to the Andy Reid playbook... who would Andy call?   Or can we call Andy to ask him directly?    

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

We are not in the Cap hole because Howie didn’t know what he was doing with the Cap.  We are in the Cap hole because HE DRAFTED US THERE.  He extended and signed old washed WR’s, because he drafted the wrong WR’s.  He signed and/or kept old and washed up DE’s, because he drafted the wrong DE’s.  How many years did we keep bringing back Sproles because Howie drafted Pumphrey.  I know Sproles $ doesn’t count against the cap.  It’s just another example of how he F-ed this team by drafting like he has.  He threw too much money at a lot of players to fill holes that he created by being a terrible GM.  It’s sooooo Obvious!!!   But let’s give him another year.  

I'll repeat what I said. I don't want Howie as GM (i.e picking players in draft and free agency). I'm not defending Howie on that. I'm just replying to your point that Howie isn't good with cap. He is. But he was executing a flawed strategy that they came up with.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

They forced Sancardangello, and MARTY FREAKING MOURNINGWHEG on to him.   Marty?   More call backs to the past... seems that maybe Lurie and Howie don't have enough connections around the league, as they always seem to go back to the Andy Reid playbook... who would Andy call?   Or can we call Andy to ask him directly?    

I’m not sure Marty was forced on him. Caplan said that was a Doug decision. 

1 minute ago, bbabraham said:

I'll repeat what I said. I don't want Howie as GM (i.e picking players in draft and free agency). I'm not defending Howie on that. I'm just replying to your point that Howie isn't good with cap. He is. But he was executing a flawed strategy that they came up with.

Is he actually good with the cap anymore?

Just now, bbabraham said:

I'll repeat what I said. I don't want Howie as GM (i.e picking players in draft and free agency). I'm not defending Howie on that. I'm just replying to your point that Howie isn't good with cap. He is. But he was executing a flawed strategy that they came up with.

So... Howie perfectly executed a failed strategy that he came up with.  Sorry I'm not sure who the 'they' is that you are referring to.

 

Great execution, Howie... just a bad plan, but you carried it out perfectly.

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I’m not sure Marty was forced on him. Caplan said that was a Doug decision. 

Caplan?  Yeah... ok.

4 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

No.  It’s on Lurie and Howie.  If they knew it, then that’s on them.  You think Doug should have raised his hand at the interview and said, "hold on guys, don’t hire me. I’ll need help”.  

Or, "Hey, we know you can’t build a staff and you have limited connections because you were coaching HS football like 10 minutes ago, but we will hire you and assume you’ll magically build deep connections throughout the league.”

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

So... Howie perfectly executed a failed strategy that he came up with.  Sorry I'm not sure who the 'they' is that you are referring to.

 

Great execution, Howie... just a bad plan, but you carried it out perfectly.

Caplan?  Yeah... ok.

You got a source saying otherwise?