Worse franchise right now: eagles or phillies?

I tend to go with the Phillies. It’s been nearly a decade since They made the playoffs. When they were bad they still didn’t draft and develop well. They’re about a lose Jt Realmuto two years after trading away sixto cause they don’t want to pay him. Their owner is worse than lurie. And their prospects besides bohm and Spencer howard aren’t really that exciting. 

51 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

That's right.  I have the inside scoop on all things related to the Chiefs.  Ask away. 

What does Travis Kelce eat for lunch?  I've always wanted to know.

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Worse franchise right now: eagles or phillies?

I tend to go with the Phillies. It’s been nearly a decade since They made the playoffs. When they were bad they still didn’t draft and develop well. They’re about a lose Jt Realmuto two years after trading away sixto cause they don’t want to pay him. Their owner is worse than lurie. And their prospects besides bohm and Spencer howard aren’t really that exciting. 

Phillies. It's harder to rebuild in baseball as well. Lurie is clueless to his front office, but at least he cares and wants to win. Middleton doesn't. He just cut off the spending and literally said "I don't care if we win, we aren't spending anymore"

38 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Schefter says he guesses that Doug doesn't get a job this coaching cycle. So that must mean that he should be getting hired soon right? Lol

I'd be surprised if someone hires him.  Teams around the league arent dumb.  They've seen how terrible the offense is.

6 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

The source was Howard Eskin.  And knowing his history (that he usually backs the Eagles) and the fact that he came out and stated his disgust with the Eagles, then went on to say that no one from the Andy Reid tree would likely coach here led me to conclude that Andy Reid (and his coaches) were likely not pleased with the way things have been handled here.  And it doesn't take a genius to deduce that.

But unfortunately, It seems most around here don't have the logical capabilities to conclude something so obvious.  Apparently the logic courses are not working...I would ask for a refund.  

So, now you are back to saying it is a fact... not just a figure of speech?   So, it was a fact... then it was your opinion... and now its back to a fact?  

 

 

Let's start with this fallacy... appeal to authority.  You appealed to Howard Eskin, who has had a long and tenuous relationship with the Eagles and Eagles fans.  He was a Cowboys' fan during their run in the 90's.  So, please don't say that Howard 'usually' backs the Eagles.  He 'usually' does whatever he thinks works better for him in the moment.

 

I listened to that portion of the radio show with Howard, just to help determine what Howard actually said.  

The first part of the interview is Howard offering his opinion, and he used the phrase "I think" repeatedly.   He thinks Doug basically went in to the meeting with Lurie saying "this is what I want and you can either give it to me or fire me."  Howard also has a way of saying his opinion in such a way as to frame it as if it were fact... his old line of 'stone cold mortal lock' etc.  

Here's what he actually said:  "In talking to 'somebody' from the KC Chiefs - there is no way that anybody from the Chiefs is coming here.... (diatribe)...  They know the issues here."  

So, you could read into this, but this is not established fact.  This is an unnamed source.   There is NO reference to Andy Reid.  Howard talked to 'somebody' from the Chiefs, but didn't claim it was Andy Reid, so there is no establishment of fact that Andy Reid is upset.  I would put this into the 'rumor' category.  He also is of the opinion that Kafka goes back to KC as the OC, rather than taking any HC job as Bieniemy leaves to go to take a HC position somewhere else.  And believes that Bieniemy will have top choice of all the jobs.

 

Interesting thing is that Howard says that he knows 100% that Jalen Reagor was a Howie Roseman pick.  Take it for what its worth.   He took issue with the Jeff McLane article about the Reagor pick, implying that it was a Howie Roseman mouthpiece article.  So we have a 'he said - he said" there.   So, now there are conflicting rumors about who is to blame for Reagor over Jefferson.

6 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

What does Travis Kelce eat for lunch?  I've always wanted to know.

Peanut butter and jelly. Like 10 of them.  He prefers uncrustables but if they're not available, home made is fine too. 

42 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Fired late and he gets a paycheck whether her has a job or not. I wouldn’t be surprised if he sits this one out instead of scrambling for a job. 

Maybe sitting a year out is a good idea.  He can learn what running the ball means.

1 minute ago, Ace Nova said:

Peanut butter and jelly. Like 10 of them.  He prefers uncrustables but if they're not available, home made is fine too. 

I knew it..

Ok 1 more question.....does Mahomes really like to drown his steak in a ton of ketchup?

35 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Of course, it didn't sneak up on him.  He rolled the dice that he could draft better young players to replace these players when their relly big dead cap hits come due, and that the cap would continue to rise every year.  He was wrong on both counts.  He hasn't drafted better players to fill in when these players' dead hits come due - Desean and Alshon are almost assuredly out, and the WR situation is as uncertain as its been since I can remember.  Greg Ward remains the most reliable option... Malik Jackson will be gone, and instead of a cheaper DT to fill in (Hassan Ridgeway would be a nice piece), we will have the giant contract of Javon Hargrave instead - a nicer player, certainly, but not a cap saving one, which is what they need to make up for these big dead cap hits that are coming.

Sometimes when you gamble, you lose.  Howie has lost, but rather than having to pay the penalty, Daddy just gave him a pat on the head and told him to do better next time.  

No, he rolled the dice that they could have one more good run before the ceiling caved in.

The team was build on the 2012, 2013 drafts, the Wentz trade-up and some key FA additions in 2016, but that meant the key players were approaching 30 or over 30 in 2017, so once they aged out there wasn't time to draft enough players to replace them - thus the backloading to try and make a run. And some bad luck, if Jerrigan doesn't get injured, no Malik, if Malik doesn't get injured, no Hargrave and the money is spent elsewhere. A lot of these moves were driven by the "last hurrah" syndrome, if you know the team is going to regress in a couple years, then go for it now, b/c let's face it 6-10 or 8-8 for three seasons, which is better? If I'm missing the playoffs, miss big and get a chance to draft difference makers. The two years before AR, 6-9, 3-13, then 5-11, but those drafts built that team that went to 5 NFC conference games and 1 SB the next decade.

Now the bill has come due, as we knew it always would. We got the ring and two more playoff runs. So we have two more bad seasons, three top draft pick drafts, and auditions for hundreds of UDFAs and SFAs to find a half dozen diamonds in the rough. No matter who was GM, this was inevitable.

After the Saints SB, 11-5, 13-3, 7-9, 11-5. 7-9, 7-9, 7-9

After the Ravens SB, 8-8, 10-6, 5-11, 8-8, 9-7

It's tough to maintain success, it's harder when you don't start with a young core that gives you a base from which to reload, rather than rebuild.

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

This is all gross exaggeration. Howie wasn't responsible for the 2014 and 2015 drafts which combined landed us Agholor, Rowe and Hicks in two years. Nor was he responsible for the coaches who misused Agholor and cut Rowe b/c they saw him as a CB, and didn't recognize his skills were better suited to safety.

2017:  Barnett at #14, Hooker S went #15, Humphrey CB #16, Allen DE (17.0 sacks) #17, Adoree Jackson CB #18, OJ Howard TE #19, Bolles OT #20 . .. McKinley DE #26 (17.5 sacks), #30 Watt OLB (49.5 sacks). Engram TE #23, Peppers S #25

The only players significantly better than Barnett were Humphrey and White CB #27. Otherwise you have a bunch of starters, but not the "All pros" people think are easy to find.

Sidney Jones t #43 is a disappointment, but the only solid starters after him, Mixon RB, #48, Tomlinson DT #55, Cunningham LB #57,  Simth-Schuster WR #62, Dawkins G #63, Moton G #64, Ogunjobi DT #65, Kamara RB #67, Kupp WR #69. a lot of misses.

Players clearly better than Douglas, Connor RB #105, Jackson S #112, Cohen RB #119, Ebukam OLB #125

2018: Goedert #49, really no better pick, Sweat #130, Pryor #206, only Bozeman C #215, Mailata #233, no one close

2019:  Dillard #22, Marcus Brown W #25, Montez Sweat DE #26, McGary T #31, Taylor T #35, but if Dillard starts at LT next year, who knows the best pick?

Sanders #53 is fine, JJAW #57 is a whiff so far. But Campbell WR #59, isabella WR #62 aren't much to write home about compared to Metcalf, D Johnson WR #66, McLaurin WR #76.

The drafting wasn't awful as claimed, some opportunities were missed, Jones was a gamble that didn't work out, Dillard was just bad luck in year 2.

But of those five drafts, Wentz, Barnett, Seumalo, Mills, Goedert, Mailata, Sanders, Reagor were starting for the Eagles, Sweat, Maddox, Hurts, Wallace, Driscoll were reserves, while Vaitai, Douglas, Jones started for other teams. Wentz has made the pro bowl, Mailata is a good bet to do so at some point, Dillard, Sanders, Goedert and Reagor have a lot of upside. While as a whole not great drafting, nor is it bad drafting, people just have ridiculous expectations.

If Howie can repeat 2012, 2013, or 2016, the Eagles will be just fine.

 

 

 

 

Not looking for an argument.  You have a narrative in your mind to prove this point everyone keeps disagreeing with. I believe u are being dishonest, not intentionally and using circular reasoning. even if I agreed with your statement, what if ppl want him gone simply because theres no room for snakes in the FO. Or a grown man expecting favoritism from his boss. His drafts are decent at best, ppl want better than decent.  I'm sure any of us being reasonable dont expect all pro bowl players but it'd be nice to see change. Also it's very disrespectful to the rest of the league and GMs praising this guy as a cap genius. The real geniuses are the ones keeping their teams $$ in the clear also while obtaining consistent impact players to win. Backloading contracts is not that. Restructuring and moving $ here and there is essentially robbing your own books. 

The guy deserves to be fired,  ppl have been fired for much less. 

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

So, now you are back to saying it is a fact... not just a figure of speech?   So, it was a fact... then it was your opinion... and now its back to a fact?  

 

 

Let's start with this fallacy... appeal to authority.  You appealed to Howard Eskin, who has had a long and tenuous relationship with the Eagles and Eagles fans.  He was a Cowboys' fan during their run in the 90's.  So, please don't say that Howard 'usually' backs the Eagles.  He 'usually' does whatever he thinks works better for him in the moment.

 

I listened to that portion of the radio show with Howard, just to help determine what Howard actually said.  

The first part of the interview is Howard offering his opinion, and he used the phrase "I think" repeatedly.   He thinks Doug basically went in to the meeting with Lurie saying "this is what I want and you can either give it to me or fire me."  Howard also has a way of saying his opinion in such a way as to frame it as if it were fact... his old line of 'stone cold mortal lock' etc.  

Here's what he actually said:  "In talking to 'somebody' from the KC Chiefs - there is no way that anybody from the Chiefs is coming here.... (diatribe)...  They know the issues here."  

So, you could read into this, but this is not established fact.  This is an unnamed source.   There is NO reference to Andy Reid.  Howard talked to 'somebody' from the Chiefs, but didn't claim it was Andy Reid, so there is no establishment of fact that Andy Reid is upset.  I would put this into the 'rumor' category.  He also is of the opinion that Kafka goes back to KC as the OC, rather than taking any HC job as Bieniemy leaves to go to take a HC position somewhere else.  And believes that Bieniemy will have top choice of all the jobs.

 

Interesting thing is that Howie says that he knows 100% that Jalen Reagor was a Howie Roseman pick.  Take it for what its worth.   He took issue with the Jeff McLane article about the Reagor article, implying that it was a Howie Roseman mouthpiece article.  So we have a 'he said - he said" there.   So, now there are conflicting rumors about who is to blame for Reagor over Jefferson.

Didn't read all of your post yet but I will. I've recently taken an interest in epistemology.  

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

So, now you are back to saying it is a fact... not just a figure of speech?   So, it was a fact... then it was your opinion... and now its back to a fact?  

 

 

Let's start with this fallacy... appeal to authority.  You appealed to Howard Eskin, who has had a long and tenuous relationship with the Eagles and Eagles fans.  He was a Cowboys' fan during their run in the 90's.  So, please don't say that Howard 'usually' backs the Eagles.  He 'usually' does whatever he thinks works better for him in the moment.

 

I listened to that portion of the radio show with Howard, just to help determine what Howard actually said.  

The first part of the interview is Howard offering his opinion, and he used the phrase "I think" repeatedly.   He thinks Doug basically went in to the meeting with Lurie saying "this is what I want and you can either give it to me or fire me."  Howard also has a way of saying his opinion in such a way as to frame it as if it were fact... his old line of 'stone cold mortal lock' etc.  

Here's what he actually said:  "In talking to 'somebody' from the KC Chiefs - there is no way that anybody from the Chiefs is coming here.... (diatribe)...  They know the issues here."  

So, you could read into this, but this is not established fact.  This is an unnamed source.   There is NO reference to Andy Reid.  Howard talked to 'somebody' from the Chiefs, but didn't claim it was Andy Reid, so there is no establishment of fact that Andy Reid is upset.  I would put this into the 'rumor' category.  He also is of the opinion that Kafka goes back to KC as the OC, rather than taking any HC job as Bieniemy leaves to go to take a HC position somewhere else.  And believes that Bieniemy will have top choice of all the jobs.

 

Interesting thing is that Howie says that he knows 100% that Jalen Reagor was a Howie Roseman pick.  Take it for what its worth.   He took issue with the Jeff McLane article about the Reagor article, implying that it was a Howie Roseman mouthpiece article.  So we have a 'he said - he said" there.   So, now there are conflicting rumors about who is to blame for Reagor over Jefferson.

The only person in this conversation with a dizzying intellect is you. (Maybe you do it on purpose, maybe not but it certainly is "dizzying" )

That said, thanks for validating that Eskin said that no one from the Chiefs is coming here.  

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

It's tough to maintain success, it's harder when you don't start with a young core that gives you a base from which to reload, rather than rebuild.

Even tougher when you draft guys who can't play.

8 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

I knew it..

Ok 1 more question.....does Mahomes really like to drown his steak in a ton of ketchup?

That's just a rumor. 

He actually floods his steaks with BBQ Sauce.  Typically, Sweet Baby Ray's. 

1 minute ago, Ace Nova said:

The only person in this conversation with a dizzying intellect is you. (Maybe you do it on purpose, maybe not but it certainly is "dizzying" )

That said, thanks for validating that Eskin said that no one from the Chiefs is coming here.  

I did what you didn't... I checked your source and he never once mentioned Andy Reid's name, which is where I came in to this.  So, it is not a fact that Andy Reid is upset (as you claimed).  That is 100% your interpretation of what you thought you heard.

 

Meanwhile continue to put stock in your false dilemma fallacy, where either someone from the Chiefs is hired here, or you were right.  Surely there couldn't be any other explanation.

14 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I did what you didn't... I checked your source and he never once mentioned Andy Reid's name, which is where I came in to this.  So, it is not a fact that Andy Reid is upset (as you claimed).  That is 100% your interpretation of what you thought you heard.

 

Meanwhile continue to put stock in your false dilemma fallacy, where either someone from the Chiefs is hired here, or you were right.  Surely there couldn't be any other explanation.

I'm not wasting anymore time on this.  Anyone with 1st grade reading comprehension knew exactly what I was saying and I clearly stated why I came to that conclusion.  If you want to keep talking in circles,.go ahead...but it's petty...and it's below me.  So have at it.

And I 100% stand by my opinion that Andy Reid and his coaches are likely not pleased with the way things have been handled here.  If you think that Doug Pederson hasn't talked to those guys and told them the issues he was having here (Especially now that he's been fired) then you must have your head in the sand.  Good night.

Will the Eagles have any coaches in place to attend the Senior Bowl on January 30?  It seems doubtful as it stands right now.  If the Scouting Combine is a go that happens in mid-February.  Really a discouraging plan to have Howie and Weidl attending those activities without any coaching input to augment observations.

52 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Will the Eagles have any coaches in place to attend the Senior Bowl on January 30?  It seems doubtful as it stands right now.  If the Scouting Combine is a go that happens in mid-February.  Really a discouraging plan to have Howie and Weidl attending those activities without any coaching input to augment observations.

Howie will be there to figure out which prospects will go before our picks as well as the better prospects we’ll pass on because coaches prefer someone else. We’re fine there

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

Howie will be there to figure out which prospects will go before our picks as well as the better prospects we’ll pass on because coaches prefer someone else. We’re fine there

He did look cranky when Chase Young was sacking Wentz in Week 1.  He must have had to do a lot of scrambling at the last minute when he went off the board

7 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

He did look cranky when Chase Young was sacking Wentz in Week 1.  He must have had to do a lot of scrambling at the last minute when he went off the board

If you look at the results after the Chase Young pick 2020 #2, there really wasn’t anything great. So you can’t blame Howie. 

7 hours ago, greend said:

Except that if Wentz sucks as bad next year they will draft high again and maybe get a q.b. that he wants

And Wentz value will be even less and his contract even messier (i believe though I'm not certain).

9 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

And Wentz value will be even less and his contract even messier (i believe though I'm not certain).

Actually it’s more feasible to cut him after 2021. If before June 1st it’s 24.5 mil in dead money with a cap savings of 6.7 million. If they do post June first it’s a 9 million dead money and 22 cap savings. If traded pre June 1st save little less than a million  next year 6.7 million  

 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Actually it’s more feasible to cut him after 2021. If before June 1st it’s 24.5 mil in dead money with a cap savings of 6.7 million. If they do post June first it’s a 9 million dead money and 22 cap savings. If traded pre June 1st save little less than a million  next year 6.7 million  

 

Thanks for that bud. In that case... Damn he will very likely be coming back. 

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Thanks for that bud. In that case... Damn he will very likely be coming back. 

All i know is thank god it is not my money. I would have a hard time eating that much money for a guy not playing here even if you believed it was a Sunk cost. Add on if he did manage to get back on track would be another slap in the face at That point. 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

All i know is thank god it is not my money. I would have a hard time eating that much money for a guy not playing here even if you believed it was a Sunk cost. Add on if he did manage to get back on track would be another slap in the face at That point. 

I don't deny that but then I guess in some ways it isn't really Lurie's money. I mean sure he's the owner but ultimately the Eagles are a business. They make profits and losses, they have turnover etc.