Just now, ToastJenkins said:

Three most important positions

qb ot and de

it all about players than can make an impact on the passing game today

i wish there was a chase young in this draft but there just isnt. There are some mid round guys i like. Barnett depends on price and length of deal

You missed the sarcasm

3 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Ive been playing around with draft simulations. A trade back could be a profitable situation but yuge risk then of missing the top two wr

This would be the exact type of year during a rebuild to trade back.  However, they would screw up the pick.  I would rather stay at 6 with Lowie picking.

15 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

If you want a guy that can be just a players coach I think he can excel. If you want someone that's going to be innovative and restore the team to a top 10ish offense he's absolutely not the guy you want. It all really just depends on what you want your HC to be.

It's not necessarily a bad thing either to be just a players coach. Mike Tomlin is a players coach and has been very successful. So is Pete Carroll. Both won the SB and have had sustained success. 

Agree.  Duce needs to go elsewhere to broaden his horizons - the issue is someone like Mike Kafka.  One team, one network, etc.

Moving to HC.  One dynamic to keep in mind is if the Eagles are reaching out to agents and hearing feedback of "I will only interview if I can build my staff, here are some names", the control could be ceded for the right candidate.  Doug's network was pretty bare it seems but that isn't necessarily the norm.  It would be my concern with certain candidates. How strong is their network?

11 hours ago, schuy7 said:

It's absolutely true. He's gotten better over the years. Threw 40 TDs this year.

It seems like people are only talking about Heinecky from that game.  Meanwhile, Brady was an absolute surgeon against one of the best defenses in the NFL.  He was threading the needle on every single pass, and if they didn't fumble and drop a few perfect passes, they probably would have dropped 40 on the Foreskins.  

2 minutes ago, hputenis said:

Foreskins

Now now, that is not politically correct any longer.  We call them the Deadskins now.

41 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

These two statements are completely incongruous, but have at it. Unless you're stating it's a fact that you're just guessing at the rest of the drivel you've written. 

 

Exactly my point that it's used as a figure of speech in casual conversation (like this blog). 

Excited to see the board erupt when the Eagles trade out.

27 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Worst case you are sitting at six staring at Devante Smith

that is worse case? man that is sexy if that happens.

42 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think you’re ignoring the obvious with Reagor, Alshon and DJax all hurt, not to mention Ertz. At full strength, do you think Ward has the most targets or most receptions on a team that loves 12 personnel?

Even when Reagor, Alshon and Djax (for how ever long that lasted) were out there... Ward was still the leader in snaps on a week to week basis.  

I don't think Ward should be the most targeted or most used player on the team under any circumstances.  He's a #5 WR, at best...a #4.  But, this team just throws him out there constantly.  8 yards per catch.  That's the stuff of bad TEs.  5.3 yards per target.   I mean... its gross.  

 

So, while it may be true that Ward was used due to the circumstances, he wasn't the only option, just their favored option.   I'm guessing that if they thought Jefferson was a player, his being primarily a slot could have been very valuable, given how much this team suffered from having any semblance of competence out there at times.   

 

 

BTW... I am still very pissed about the fact that they passed on Jefferson, and will remain so.  So, I am very much biased in this discussion, and recognize it.  I also believe that Ward is a waste of roster space at this point and every snap he gets is a snap that can't be used for one of the more athletic WRs to get a chance to work on their game, guys who might actually have a future on the team/in the league.

43 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Because we love TEs and to run 12 personnel. So in our system, you're looking at Agholor 2017/2018.

Agholor 2017/2018 would have FAR exceeded what we got from any WR this past year.   

Leading receptions - Ward with 53. 

Leading yards - Fulgham (in basically 4 or 5 games) 539 yards.

Agholor averaged 63 receptions for ~750 yards those years.   No single WR came even close to those numbers.  

 

Long story short  - this offense was very broken, from a personnel standpoint, long before the injuries made it worse.

43 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

He’s making a disingenuous argument. 

I am still ranting about Greg Ward being our most reliable WR.  It makes me sick.   I own it.

2 hours ago, greend said:

Hot take on Doug. He sits the year out McCarthy gets the can at the end of this year and Doug coaches the Cowboys.

As long as he refuses to give up the play calling, I am all for this move.  Dak will get killed, Zeke will get frustrated with <10 carries/game after 7 on the first drive and a TD, and Amari Cooper will give up on long developing routes by week 2.  And we will laugh and laugh and laugh.  

 

24 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I am so tired of hearing about WR.  The infatuation of some for that position just boggles my mind.   

It is the product of being deprived of WRs for so long... 

 

Go back to the Andy Reid era... Torrence Small, Charles Johnson, Todd Pinkston, Freddie Mitchell, James Thrash, Kevin Curtis, Dante Stallworth, there was that one year with this fella named Owens...  then we got Desean and Maclin for a brief period... then back to the likes of Jordan Matthews and Josh Huff, Nelson Agholor (the bad version)... with a brief respite of Torry Smith, good Alshon and good Agholor... immediately followed by Mike Wallace, then old and busted Desean Jackson, bad Alshon, bad Agholor, Robert Davis, Deontay Burnett, and the great Greg Ward.  Over 20 years and that is the WR corps we have to show for it.

 

Great... now I'm depressed.

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

 Nope.  I’m a lover of animals.  You should know by now, I am a kind and considerate soul.  

1 hour ago, RLC said:

Miami taking a QB at #3 would be very helpful.

And very smart.  Tua blows.  

25 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I am so tired of hearing about WR.  The infatuation of some for that position just boggles my mind.   

While it would be nice to get one of the top WR in the draft, it's yet another deep draft for WR and they should be able to address it in the middle rounds (hopefully) I think DP and the rest of the offensive coaching staff was holding this team back.  Yes, Carson needs to be better but after watching the Bama game and reading about potential HC candidates I get really excited hearing about coaches who know how to scheme for their players and take advantage of what they have....the exact opposite of what we've done.

A new HC and a real OC should be able to get Reagor and Watkins in space.  They should be able to get Fulgham back on track.  He might not be T.O. but geez he led the NFL for 5-6 weeks.  Those 3 WR are OK in a rebuild year. 

I hate Howie but I'm giving him one last chance.  Heading in to the draft to get Carson Wentz, Howie made some amazing trades let's not forget that.  We have some veteran players that add tremendous value to teams that are looking for that final piece.  Based on Jeff's PC, they don't care about the salary cap or see it as a problem so Howie will keep kicking the can to make it work for the current year.  That tells me that every veteran is on the table.  Cox, BG, Rodney, Lane....if they get a good offer in draft capital or young player they should do it.

 

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It is the product of being deprived of WRs for so long... 

 

Go back to the Andy Reid era... Torrence Small, Charles Johnson, Todd Pinkston, Freddie Mitchell, James Thrash, Kevin Curtis, Dante Stallworth, there was that one year with this fella named Owens...  then we got Desean and Maclin for a brief period... then back to the likes of Jordan Matthews and Josh Huff, Nelson Agholor (the bad version)... with a brief respite of Torry Smith, good Alshon and good Agholor... immediately followed by Mike Wallace, then old and busted Desean Jackson, bad Alshon, bad Agholor, Robert Davis, Deontay Burnett, and the great Greg Ward.  Over 20 years and that is the WR corps we have to show for it.

 

Great... now I'm depressed.

I think it's also that a WR will be the BPA at #6.  Outside of Sewell, there are no OL or DL that seem worthy of a top 10 pick.  Maybe that changes, but as of right now, Chase or Smith make complete sense at #6.  If we trade down, I'm all in on Surtain, but other than an anti-climactic overdraft of another QB at 6, either Chase or Smith should be the best player on the board and by a wide margin.  I don't care if it's a deep receiver draft either.  There's almost a 100% certainty we F it up in rounds 2 or later.  

47 minutes ago, greend said:

and we'll go for a high motor d-end

Yeah, I'm not sure where these fans think Howie will draft a WR in the top 10. He just doesn't do that. He drafts Lineman, O&D in the top 10 or QB. Anyone hoping he drafts a WR that high, are just setting themselves up for disappointment.  Yet again. 

SO either we find a great Oline, or Dlineman, a QB, or we trade back between 9-15 pickup a pick and then draft a Oline or Dlineman. 

6 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I know the history.  I've been around.  Unlike some trolls who just showed up.  We are basically back at the drawing board.  You don't draft a WR in the top 10 when you are starting from scratch.  Dumb teams do ish like that.  

Well, get ready. We're one of those now. 

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I know the history.  I've been around.  Unlike some trolls who just showed up.  We are basically back at the drawing board.  You don't draft a WR in the top 10 when you are starting from scratch.  Dumb teams do ish like that.  

Fundamentally, I agree with you.  We know that the quarterback and the offensive and defensive lines are most important.  When your roster is "bottom 5 in the NFL" - you are starting from scratch.  Those three areas take precedent first.  Without them, your team won't succeed in a meaningful way even if you have a bunch of great receivers.

Following those areas (QB, OL, DL), though, difference makers in the passing game are next.  Impact WRs and CBs.  You could argue that these positions are becoming even more important over time, as offenses and the passing game evolve.  You could also argue the supply of talent at both positions is also increasing significantly.

When you are drafting in the top ten, the most important thing IMO is to make sure you get a difference maker, regardless of position.  You want to get the impact player.  You don't want to take an average starter because you are worried about positional value when you could have had someone that changes the game and makes your team better.

For these reasons, I wouldn't mind Chase, Smith, or even Parsons at #6 overall.  I'd prefer that over the second best tackle or a DE who doesn't project as a can't miss or impact player from the jump.  I'd be thrilled if the Oregon tackle fell and was available, or if there is a true dynamic pass rusher worthy of the pick.  The QB situation is pretty messed up, so not sure what to even think about the current prospects.

Bottom line, though, confidence in the Eagles getting it right is very low.  Even if they nail this pick, recent history shows they will likely fail throughout this draft.  Hard to be optimistic given the choices the owner has made.

2 minutes ago, hputenis said:

I think it's also that a WR will be the BPA at #6.  Outside of Sewell, there are no OL or DL that seem worthy of a top 10 pick.  Maybe that changes, but as of right now, Chase or Smith make complete sense at #6.  If we trade down, I'm all in on Surtain, but other than an anti-climactic overdraft of another QB at 6, either Chase or Smith should be the best player on the board and by a wide margin.  I don't care if it's a deep receiver draft either.  There's almost a 100% certainty we F it up in rounds 2 or later.  

We also have to look at the current talent pool in the draft.  Picking a WR at #6 should bring back a Julio Jones/Larry Fitzgerald kind of talent IMO.  I don't know what Chase is.  People say Justin Jefferson benefited from Chase but maybe it was the other way around?  Not denying his talent just questioning if he's TOP END talent.  He's also been out the whole year so we are basing #6 on 1 year of production that was 2 years ago.

Then you have Devonta Smith...the guy is supremely talented there, seems like a great dude.  You have to consider his size however.  Again, I just don't know if he's top 6 worthy.  Love him as a college player.  I'm just not sold on him at the NFL and investing such a high pick.

After watching more of Surtain, I think he's Malcolm Jenkins.  He's stiff in the hips and I think he will be OK at corner but I see him as a great safety down the road.  Not top 6 or 10 worthy to me.  

I have no idea who I want in the draft but I think a trade down is the best based on value right now.  There are great players in the top 10.  I'd be happy with Surtain, Chase or even Smith but they all have question marks.  No draft pick is a sure thing but you want the closest thing to a sure thing picking that high.  None of them give me that feeling.

19 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It is the product of being deprived of WRs for so long... 

 

Go back to the Andy Reid era... Torrence Small, Charles Johnson, Todd Pinkston, Freddie Mitchell, James Thrash, Kevin Curtis, Dante Stallworth, there was that one year with this fella named Owens...  then we got Desean and Maclin for a brief period... then back to the likes of Jordan Matthews and Josh Huff, Nelson Agholor (the bad version)... with a brief respite of Torry Smith, good Alshon and good Agholor... immediately followed by Mike Wallace, then old and busted Desean Jackson, bad Alshon, bad Agholor, Robert Davis, Deontay Burnett, and the great Greg Ward.  Over 20 years and that is the WR corps we have to show for it.

 

Great... now I'm depressed.

Agreend! Even before the Reid era, We were lucky to get 2 good years out of Rev Fryar, and we traded away Chris Carter. We had 2 decent WR's in Barnett and Williams, but they weren't great by any stretch. We have not been a WR rich team for decades. 

And I agree we need to change that, But that has to come from better drafting.

 I am in agreeance you dont draft a WR in the top 10. Our chances to get some good wr's were the last 2 years in the draft. We just suck at it. I am not ready to throw away a top 10 pick on a position we draft poorly at. I'd rather we take that top 10 pick and trade back between 9-15 and pick up a pick or two and draft a Lineman, we at least do well at that. That way we dont waste a top 10 pick. 

But thats just me.  

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I know the history.  I've been around.  Unlike some trolls who just showed up.  We are basically back at the drawing board.  You don't draft a WR in the top 10 when you are starting from scratch.  Dumb teams do ish like that.  

I agree with you on that.   But, this is what happens to a fan base that has suffered through bad WR pick after bad WR pick.  

Freddie Mitchell over Reggie Wayne
JJAW over Metcalf/Slayton/McLaurin
Reagor over Jefferson/Aiyuk/Higgins/Claypool/etc.  

 

I want a trade back as the move from #6.   But, I also don't want Howie making these picks... There's going to be a lot of WRs in this draft that can step right in and help a team... sadly, the Eagles will not get one of them.  The one constant over this time is that Howie wouldn't know a good WR if it fell on to his roster by accident.  

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

 

Don't tell this to Afan.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

There's going to be a lot of WRs in this draft that can step right in and help a team... sadly, the Eagles will not get one of them.  The one constant over this time is that Howie wouldn't know a good WR if it fell on to his roster by accident.  

The beauty of Ja'Marr Chase is that he's as safe as you're going to get.

4 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

 I am in agreeance you dont draft a WR in the top 10. Our chances to get some good wr's were the last 2 years in the draft. We just suck at it. I am not ready to throw away a top 10 pick on a position we draft poorly at. I'd rather we take that top 10 pick and trade back between 9-15 and pick up a pick or two and draft a Lineman, we at least do well at that. That way we dont waste a top 10 pick. 

But thats just me.  

Trouble is... that guy that I had circled looked like he blew out his left knee in the NC game.   So, now I don't really know what I want.

So, here's where I am: