Just now, Ace Nova said:

So if that's the case, what happens with Wentz, in your opinion?

 

Wentz starts next season behind a much better OL and better WRs, and gets a chance to revive his career.

They may even keep him on the bench another season if he flops, just to clear out most of the dead money on hjs contract (since he'll have zero trade value).

My expectation is with a more competent OC, a much better OL and even this group of WRs with a year of experience and coaching, we'll see 2017-2019 Wentz. Especially with a HC/OC who recognize he's a pocket QB who is mobile enough to buy time but is not suited to the RPO. They'll also train Hurts as a pocket QB (his weakness) as part of his development but have a group of RPO plays for him if he has to come in as the backup.

Come 2023 it'll work out in three ways

1) Wentz is the starter, Hurts is either extended on a nice backup QB contract (3yr $18M) if he develops or traded

2) Wentz is gone, Hurts is the starter and they add a veteran backup while looking for young QBs

3) Wentz and Hurts are gone and they trade up in the 2023 draft for a QB.

Meanwhile, while you wait for this to shakeout you build a team up, so whether it's a QB on the roster or one you draft, they have a solid OL and skill players to work with.

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The same guy who built the SB team with his 2012, 2013, and 2016 drafts, finding hidden gems and his FA acquisitions.

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot claim Howie is only a consensus builder when the draft produces suboptimal results and then claim Howie is the master architect of the SB winning team.

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

There's no quick turnaround for this team. Have to build up the roster first, a few blue chip players won't make you a winner or Detroit and Cleveland would have been in the playoffs every year. Far too much age on this team, a lot of guys who won't be here in two years when the turnaround arrives:  Desean, Kelce, Curry, Graham, Lane, Cox (unless he renegotiates at 33), Ertz, Malik, Jeffrey, Slay. By the 2023 offseason, Eagles may have $50+M cap room to play with.

That being said, start by fixing the OL and offensive skill people, you'll lose games 40-30 but it'll be fun, and you can develop Wentz or Hurts as your starting QB (after watching Lawrence and Fields, meh, athletes aren't QBs, they're as big or bigger gambles as what we already have).

Then audition lots of fast inexperienced defensive players, a lot will stink out the joint, some will surprise. You're not looking for stars, just a few solid starters and depth guys to complement the couple stars you pick up in the draft and FA down the road.

2022 draft, once the offense is built up, start shifting toward defense, 2023 heavy defense and sign a couple FAs to fill out the defense. Then make some noise.

I have no problem living through two losing seasons if I'm watching a lot of young talented players learn on the job, worked for the Sixers and Flyers.

It's hard to think that Wentz will want to be here through 2 building seasons.  I have no confidence that Hurts is the answer at QB.  I think you have to think there's a possibility that going into next offseason the team's biggest need will be QB.  

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I do think that as well with doug on wanting more power. I also kind of think he saw the decline of this team along with that he was perfectly fine walking away before his name got dragged through the mud even more than it already was 

I don't think Doug thought Press Taylor was a poison pill type choice as OC.  I think that's who he wanted last offseason. To be honest, I don't think Doug was taking ownership of some of the issues the team was having. I also think Doug wasn't happy with the direction of the team.  My guess is he was more unhappy with being told what to do by Roseman/Lurie and didn't like the dynamic.  

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

"If I'm a coach, a really good coach who's got clout, do I want to go into a situation where a guy just left, who won them a Super Bowl in franchise history, [because he] wanted more control?"

If I'm a really good coach who has clout, I'm in the playoffs and not going anywhere.

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

If I'm a really good coach who has clout, I'm in the playoffs and not going anywhere.

The point is Lurie-Howie will not give the new coach any say. 

47 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

In today’s NFL you don’t have to have a great defense. Would be awesome if they did. You just have to get turnovers and be opportunistic. To me that’s been the Eagles biggest problem on defense. Since the Super Bowl year it has really regressed in that area. 

Their DBs have worse hands than their WRs... and that's hard to believe!

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

It's hard to think that Wentz will want to be here through 2 building seasons.  I have no confidence that Hurts is the answer at QB.  I think you have to think there's a possibility that going into next offseason the team's biggest need will be QB.  

I don't think Doug thought Press Taylor was a poison pill type choice as OC.  I think that's who he wanted last offseason. To be honest, I don't think Doug was taking ownership of some of the issues the team was having. I also think Doug wasn't happy with the direction of the team.  My guess is he was more unhappy with being told what to do by Roseman/Lurie and didn't like the dynamic.  

Cool spin Dave. Thanks for stopping by 

3 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot claim Howie is only a consensus builder when the draft produces suboptimal results and then claim Howie is the master architect of the SB winning team.

AF showing his lawyer skills. 

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

If I'm a really good coach who has clout, I'm in the playoffs and not going anywhere.

Except that teams who get to the playoffs usually end up losing coaches to other teams...

32 minutes ago, RLC said:

No chance, but would be a home run hire.

He's an intriguing name.  I'm curious.  What about him makes you say 'home run' though?   Take me through the thought process there.

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

 

 

"Now you've got Jalen Hurts, who you might've alienated. You've got Carson, who might feel alienated. And you've got a training camp an an OTA with a new coach, whoever that is, and a job that a lot of guys might not want to take. You're $60 mil over the cap, your roster's aging. And the guy who won a Super Bowl and there's a statue of him outside the stadium? He left because, in part, he wanted more control. 

"If I'm a coach, a really good coach who's got clout, do I want to go into a situation where a guy just left, who won them a Super Bowl in franchise history, [because he] wanted more control?"

Interesting perspective. 

Just now, Mike030270 said:

Except that teams who get to the playoffs usually end up losing coaches to other teams...

Or the theory that good OCs or good offensive minded coaches that are sought after in the process don’t have clout or preferences about coaching jobs and opportunities. 

 

Prince had a visit to the chiefs

 

3 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot claim Howie is only a consensus builder when the draft produces suboptimal results and then claim Howie is the master architect of the SB winning team.

Sure I can. Rebuilding is different than trying to keep a window open. When you're rebuilding, the consensus is around who has the highest upside, when you're trying to win now, the conflict is between upside and who fills a need. Look at people complaining about Hurts and Taylor because they didn't help the team win now (though Hurts was an insurance policy) - but while Taylor's a gamble, that's the kind of athleticism you want in your LBs in a pass happy league. Same with Bradley. Same with Hightower and Watkins, who were picks based on future upside.

Why did Howie do this - because like he said, he knew he'd have to rebuild, and after the 1st rd, players are unlikely to contribute as rookies. So he was hedging his bets in this draft.

Notice no reports of Pederson lobbying to take Jefferson, with Ertz as his possession WR, the perceived need was for speed.

1 hour ago, Ipiggles said:

You have to be prepared for that though don't you? Like, should you not be ready for that scenario? "If this happens, here is exactly what we do". Just because the player they really wanted gets picked the pick before, doesn't excuse them from missing on Reagor over Jefferson, Ayuk, Higgins and Claypool. It's like they had one guy they scouted correctly, and the rest ? Meh....  No!  

 

100% yes you do but listening to Lurie at his PC he seemed to blame their drafting as of late to bad luck with players they want getting picked ahead of them.  It was a horrible excuse/reasoning from an owner.  Blaming other teams for drafting players they want.  Like you said, you need to be prepared for every situation possible.  It's truly pathetic how this team is run.

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

Probably comes down to who do you love more: Lawrence or Herbert, which owner isn’t more awful then the other and living in la or Jacksonville 

4 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

 

Interesting. If we are going that far down the experience line, why not give Demeco Ryans an interview as well 

26 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Joe banner last year said he and rhule would be the two guys he’d go after if he was doing a coaching search. I’m doubting he comes here with everything that happened with chip and supposedly that was his mentor 

I'd like to know how that connection works.  They worked together in Philly in 2015, and Kelly was the OC when Day was the QB at New Hampshire.  But in the coaching ranks, they only spent 1 year together at UNH and 2 years in the NFL, 1 year in Philly and the following year in SF... every other year they were both coaching they weren't linked at all.  Day at Florida, Boston College, Temple, and eventually to OSU.  

 

The biggest concern I have is that Day didn't spend much time in the NFL ranks at all.  2 years as QB coach - 1 in Philly, 1 in SF.  The rest is college only.  Seems like a leap.  Never played in the NFL, never even got into an NFL camp as a player.  Had the 2 years, both with Kelly... and that wasn't really an 'NFL' set-up.  So, Day's taste of NFL coaching is flavored by Chip's disasterous years... 2015 in Philly was brutal.  2016 in SF was equally brutal and he was fired after only 1 year there.  So, I need to know more about Ryan Day and why he'd be a good NFL HC.  

He has limited HC experience - only 2 seasons and an interim stint with OSU.  And he has virtually no real NFL coaching experience.  And here he won't have top recruits like he has at OSU.

35 minutes ago, RLC said:

Would be an incredible get for Detroit.

But we were told the Eagles have potentially FIVE GM's in the FO along with Howie.  Why can't someone poach Howie?

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Sure I can. Rebuilding is different than trying to keep a window open. When you're rebuilding, the consensus is around who has the highest upside, when you're trying to win now, the conflict is between upside and who fills a need. Look at people complaining about Hurts and Taylor because they didn't help the team win now (though Hurts was an insurance policy) - but while Taylor's a gamble, that's the kind of athleticism you want in your LBs in a pass happy league. Same with Bradley. Same with Hightower and Watkins, who were picks based on future upside.

Why did Howie do this - because like he said, he knew he'd have to rebuild, and after the 1st rd, players are unlikely to contribute as rookies. So he was hedging his bets in this draft.

Notice no reports of Pederson lobbying to take Jefferson, with Ertz as his possession WR, the perceived need was for speed.

Your argument makes no sense with respect to drafting. In rebuild mode you want talented players, and in the window-open mode you want reaches and projects?

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'd like to know how that connection works.  They worked together in Philly in 2015, and Kelly was the OC when Day was the QB at New Hampshire.  But in the coaching ranks, they only spent 1 year together at UNH and 2 years in the NFL, 1 year in Philly and the following year in SF... every other year they were both coaching they weren't linked at all.  Day at Florida, Boston College, Temple, and eventually to OSU.  

 

The biggest concern I have is that Day didn't spend much time in the NFL ranks at all.  2 years as QB coach - 1 in Philly, 1 in SF.  The rest is college only.  Seems like a leap.  Never played in the NFL, never even got into an NFL camp as a player.  Had the 2 years, both with Kelly... and that wasn't really an 'NFL' set-up.  So, Day's taste of NFL coaching is flavored by Chip's disasterous years... 2015 in Philly was brutal.  2016 in SF was equally brutal and he was fired after only 1 year there.  So, I need to know more about Ryan Day and why he'd be a good NFL HC.  

He has limited HC experience - only 2 seasons and an interim stint with OSU.  And he has virtually no real NFL coaching experience.  And here he won't have top recruits like he has at OSU.

BWF discussed it near the end of the episode. Not only work related. Also apparently from same town, went to same high school and were close. there were a bunch of other things connected to him and thought of chip as a mentor 

Same thing for Daboll as well. 

23 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

Who is going to pick all these young, talented players?

You know who will be picking... whether or not they are young and talented, remains to be seen.  I just can't figure out if they are Beavis and Butthead or Dumb and Dumber.   Either way, neither one is qualified to be making draft picks.

25 minutes ago, austinfan said:

His voice did count, which is why he's gone. You think all those personnel moves were made without his input?

When the scouts say the coaches overruled their advice, who do you think they were referring to?

Name one assistant developed by Pederson? Compare to AR.

I think Pederson is a great clubhouse coach, and if I had a playoff caliber team that was being held back by a martinet hated by his players, I'd consider Pederson as HC for a fast rebound.

Name all the offensive assistants the AR developed and had great success after they got out from under his shadow.