41 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Omg his snap count went down because he was BAD. He played awful that’s why he got benched. So he was great in 2016 and 2017 in their system but 2018 he bottomed out. So clearly he had no issue the system for 2 years but 2018 it was clearly just the system 🙄. Yeah don’t buy that BS 

He wasBAD and declined MASSIVELY in 2018. We weren’t signing 2017 Malik Jackson Cause he didn’t sign until March 2019. He was awful against the run in 2018 and he showed massive decline in 2018. To the point they benched him.

He wasn't bad, he fell off but he wasn't terrible. He shared time with Abry Jones, 6'4 318 DT, who obviously wasn't a one gap type. 4 sacks total from 2017-2019. They had brought in Dareus in 2017 and he was the starter at the other DT spot in 2018 at 331 lbs, but at that point in his career he was just a big two gap type.

They went from giving up 4.3 ypc to 4.1 ypc from 2017 to 2018, so the run defense improved, but went from 55 sacks to 37 sacks.

4 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

I dont get the, : we will reward teams who LOSE a minority coach". Should they not be rewarding those that HIRE the coach?  Seems a bit backward to me, but hey, much of what goes on today seems that way to me. Like asking for the government to send out money to you, or buy you stuff or pay for stuff,  just so they have to tax everyone more (key note here, this includes you) to pay for it. 

I think the general idea is that head coach positions are generally pulled from O and D co-ordinators, and re-tread ex head coaches. Yes, there are some positional coaches that make the jump to HC, but it's not the norm I don't believe.

So, to encourage teams to develop positional coaches into co-ordinators and eventually HC's, the NFL is trying to incentivize it with draft picks. It may not work out, and become so lopsided that you only see minorities being developed. You'd think they will course correct if that happens. I don't know that this is the best way to equalize things, but I do give the NFL credit for at least trying something. 

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

There was a ridiculous amount of injury bad luck, starting with Jerrigan. A healthy Jerrigan and maybe no Malik, a healthy Malik and no Hargrave.

Dillard is drafted to replace Peters, a year to add strength, if he starts at LT, they don't resign Peters, Mailata and Driscoll back up Lane. Brooks missed more games to anxiety than injury the past seven season.  If the Eagles have a solid OL all season they probably make the playoffs.

If Wallace doesn't get injured, he buys a year at WR to add speed, maybe they don't even look at DeSean or think about extending Jeffrey.

Darby was a great move, except he couldn't stay on the field until he leaves here.

Coaching was also a big issue:

If Pederson realized Agholor is better outside than in the slot (where he never looked comfortable), the other WR decisions would have been easier.

How can you have Ware, Pryor, Jones, Douglas and Sullivan and not put together a decent secondary with veterans like McLeod and Jenkins and then Maddox is strictly a slot CB.

 

We won in 2017 partially because we were healthy, other than Peters going down, the OL played 16 games, Wentz was injured after 13 games, Smallwood was dinged up but Clement stayed healthy, Jeffrey had his last healthy season, Darby got injured, Hicks got injured. We lost a few starters, but could compensate. The wave of injuries in 2018 and 2019 were ridiculous, sure Jeffrey and DeSean were good bets to miss games, but two whole seasons? Hicks and Darby didn't play a full season until 2020 after they leave. Jerrigan goes down, Malik and Wallace get injured after a couple games and so on, you expect to lose one or two starters and have a few more out for a number of games, but not like this.

And the 2020 OL was insane, Dillard and Brooks before the season, the Seumalo for half the season, Peters, Lane, Driscoll, Opeta, and finally Mailata, that's just really bad luck.

You know when you put a line of dominos together and push one of the ends and they all fall?  So to prevent that you stick a finger in there somewhere to stop the flow, but forget you set up 2 more rows going around the original line.  That's you trying to justify each successive failure by plugging the ultimate culprit.  Your original line.

I can't also take you seriously if you say Darby, who played 1 good qtr of football as an Eagle, was a great move.  Let alone saying Brooks missed more time due to mental illness over 7 years than he did this season up till week 2. Quick math...2 weeks equals 2 games FYI.

Again — the incentive is for developing minority coaches.  Not sure why this is an abstract idea or initiative 

50 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Anderson wasn't really available or someone would have traded for him. Jets were going to lose him without compensation, now it couldn't be that their GM was an idiot and thought he could get a 1st or 2nd rd pick for a guy who had a meh career for them (and was a UDFA in the first place).

Anderson hit free agency, therefore, he was available.  But, by the time he did, this team had already jumped the shark with Desean and Alshon at WR and weren't going to put more money into it.  Instead, they decided to jump the shark at DT as well, and bring in Hargrave, despite already overspending on Malik Jackson.

 

Now, if we rewind the stupid for a minute... don't restructure Jeffery - he's easily dumped after 2019.  Don't give Desean the new extension after trading for him.  Let him play on his old deal, and they could have gotten out of his contract for no cost to the 2020 cap... And ironically, Anderson's contract that he signed would have been roughly the exact same cost as what we now still owe to Desean.  And that is why you don't get big money, long term commitments to players over 30.  That part, Banner had right.   BUT... you could bring them in on low money, no commitment deals.  Desean for a 6th, on his old deal... fine.  If it works, it works.  If not, you cut bait after 2019 (as they should have) and try something else.   The money wasted on Alshon, Desean and Hargrave would have made adding Anderson very easy to do... even if he was demanding that crazy $14M/ year deal.  Meet in the middle around $12M, and you still have money to do stupid things with Slay and Hargrave, just by moving on from Desean and Alshon when you should have, by not overcommiting.

58 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Just for the sake of discussion, Jeffery was injured during the season, he just played through it.  So there was some red flags there.  

If you didn't see the Brooks and Peters injuries coming, that's on you.  Brooks already had popped an Achilles... so that was more likely to happen again - happened with Demeco Ryans while he was here.  happened with Jordan Hicks while he was here.  It should have been 'on the radar'... and who would have seen injury coming to a 39 year old OL that had been dealing with chronic injuries for the last 4 years getting injured... I mean that's just bizarro world to expect that.  Lane had the ankle going into the off season, so maybe a little concern that he doesn't come back or can't stay back.   Seumalo, Driscoll and Opeta, sure.  Those are unpredictable, the others were very predictable and were a matter of when, not if.

So when he's 173? 

The owner, Lurie, has said there was an effort to keep the band together.  As you point out, for too long.  I think you and Afan actually agree on this to some degree.  And I think what he is pointing out is that in the light of what the Eagles were doing with a team with some age already on it, was not unreasonable.   Contrast BG, Chris Long. and Curry with Desean, Wallace and Alshon (and Jeffery wasn’t old when extended). Relatively healthy v signed and fell apart.  

Lane nursed a high ankle sprain in 2019 but that wasn’t a clear sign that it wouldn’t be healed in 2020.  He may recover fully and play real well for another three or four years.  Brooks has shown a real knack for getting healthy again.  Yes, they have to start focusing on their replacements, just like with Kelce.  I would argue they have just like with Dillard to replace JP, they drafted Driscoll, who should be a starting G.  Move Seumalo in to C, unless a better option comes along.  They have been developing Mailata as a swing T and I thought they liked Wanogho as a potential future swing T (the failure to sign concerns me that Stout doesn’t like him or he has higher expectations and was stung by sitting on the PS, he is a Nigerian Prince after all).

The Eagles draft toward the future, they say that all along. We fans tend to be impatient waiting for players to develop.  First year performance rarely colors my opinion of a player.  I expect, at best, to see the player I saw in college.  Unfortunately and fortunately, I saw that with almost all of the Eagles draft choices this year.  I saw Reagor high point but I also saw some of the laziness.  I saw some quality nickel like snaps from Wallace.  I said yesterday what I saw from Hurts.  I barely saw Taylor but it tracks what we saw in college. I saw Toohill rush but completely whiff on the run while playing at DC.  I saw effort and error from Bradley. Driscoll surprised but only a little because, well Stout. Now if next year we get JJAW 2.0 in their sophomore years, I will be highly disappointed.  I want to see Herbig (who changed his condition) not Pryor in the area of improvement.  I also think the Eagles need to change their philosophy about day 1 and 2 draftees and expect them to play and play well from the start. 

42 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I’m not buying what he’s selling, but I still appreciate him. 

Agreed.  Afan makes this place fun.

27 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

For starters, I like you.  You bring a different perspective and I thank you for it.

 

1 - Jeffery is indefensible.  It was a decent decision in 2018.  It was a moronic decision after 2018.  Giving Jeffery that guarantee after undercutting his QB showed that they weren't really understanding the dynamic very well.   And you don't align with a WR over a QB if you intend to sign the QB to a mega-deal right after that.  Stupid.

2 - No one is arguing that decision.  The issue isn't that he tried to do that, its how he tried to do it.  Big money, to older players.  Bad draft picks.  Pretty much all these moves that he tried have failed.   That's the reality.  The NFL is a performance based league.  Win or lose.  Its not about who you liked in the draft that couldn't draft... that's not how it works.  Its a zero sum game.   You need to get your guy, not let another team get him.  AND, there's more than ONE guy in any draft.  Find another guy, if your guy is taken.   And if there's no one else... then give away everything else to get that one guy.  I mean, if the whole draft rises or falls with that guy, then you have to get him.

3 - No.  I assume that if you draft player X and he completely sucks, that your evaluation and/or selection process is completely flawed.  It has nothing to do with player Y or Z.    In other words, JJAW sucks.  Never should have been the selection - period.

4 - I don't trust that Howie and Jeff aren't still sitting there thinking that the Super Bowl was 100% because of their genius and that Doug and Reich just went along for the ride.   I don't trust them to not stick their noses in where their noses don't belong... i.e. anything to do with anyone on the field.

5 - 2020 does matter.  Because they doubled down with Slay and Hargrave.  And if 2020 was just about a rebuild, then shame shame shame on them, because that was the WORST start to a rebuild I've ever seen where old and busted players are not just out there, but put into games over players that have a potential future and were performing well above expectations.   Desean and Alshon could have been dropped this past year for minimal cost (same cost as adding Slay and Hargrave) and just leaned hard into the rebuild, bring Desean back, while biting the bullet on Alshon with an injury settlement and finding a guy that could provide something on the field for 2020 at the WR position.   And if they can find a trade partner for Slay and recoup that 3rd round pick (which I highly doubt), that's STILL a terrible move, because of the actual cost.   They dumped money into him $14M in signing bonus and salary for 2020.  If they can't unload him the costs go up.   AND... they gave away a 3rd and a 5th.  Even if they can get the 3rd back, that's still a drop in value, equivalent of a full round LATER than it would have been.  Theoretically, that 3rd spent on Slay could have been sent forward to a 2nd in 2021.  Or... crazy notion, selecting a player that could have helped this team this past year AND in the future, for less than a $14M commitment.  I was a fan of Cameron Dantzler in the draft process.  He could have been taken with that 3rd round pick instead... and maybe they'd have a CB for more than 1 year... Dantzler is only 22.

6 - I don't want to get into that now.  

I chuckle at the fact he’s like well we could just trade slay and assume we get the third round back. First he’s owed a lot of money for the next three years. To the point of where you’re going to have to restructure or have some sort of extension to lower his Cap number. Second he is now in his 30s and this past season how many games did he leave early or leave the field or miss games entirely because he had some sort of injury or got hurt in the game? There was quite a few. I know the rest of the leavue is gonna look into that. So now you have to deal with the fact wear and tear might be catching up to his body (outside of the concussion). Third that third round pick isn’t the same as the one you had last year. That draft you had more information on prospect because the pandemic hadn’t hit the college season. So if you get a third round pick you’re going into a draft where there’s probably gonna be less available information on the prospect pool because a lot of prospects didn’t play this year. So it’s much harder draft to nail due to the pandemic. Fourth you wouldn’t have the dead money spent on slay this year and used elsewhere to help with extensions or building your team around younger players. 

6 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

??? That's what I said Hurts hasn't shown enough to warrant giving up on Wentz

 

Not even close. So that answers my original question

2 hours ago, Swoop said:

Apparently Wade Phillips is looking to come out of retirement and coach again.

So I have to ask, what is everyone's thoughts to bring him in as a DC?

Our defense is a mess anyways, so I say F it, let's bite the bullet and do it. It'll take a couple years to get the personnel for it, and I have no faith that Howie is up to the task, but we could certainly do worse.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Anderson hit free agency, therefore, he was available.  But, by the time he did, this team had already jumped the shark with Desean and Alshon at WR and weren't going to put more money into it.  Instead, they decided to jump the shark at DT as well, and bring in Hargrave, despite already overspending on Malik Jackson.

 

Now, if we rewind the stupid for a minute... don't restructure Jeffery - he's easily dumped after 2019.  Don't give Desean the new extension after trading for him.  Let him play on his old deal, and they could have gotten out of his contract for no cost to the 2020 cap... And ironically, Anderson's contract that he signed would have been roughly the exact same cost as what we now still owe to Desean. 

Anderson wanted to rejoin Ruhle, and he wasn't worth a gross overpay given his meh career with the Jets.

People forget what "free agent" means, the player is free to choose where to go, and usually money is only one consideration (do I want to be rich and happy, or richer and unhappy?).

 

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

I think the general idea is that head coach positions are generally pulled from O and D co-ordinators, and re-tread ex head coaches. Yes, there are some positional coaches that make the jump to HC, but it's not the norm I don't believe.

So, to encourage teams to develop positional coaches into co-ordinators and eventually HC's, the NFL is trying to incentivize it with draft picks. It may not work out, and become so lopsided that you only see minorities being developed. You'd think they will course correct if that happens. I don't know that this is the best way to equalize things, but I do give the NFL credit for at least trying something. 

Happy they are trying, no problem there. And there is never a perfect system or way. I get that. 

I just dont follow the logic of the how/why in totality. Maybe the better way would be to reward both the team that is losing the coach, as they spent time developing them, and the team who is hiring them, as they are taking the chance and actually hiring them into a coveted position? 

But I do get again, that nothing is a perfect system. 

 

22 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

Jimmy was followed up by who?  So you can kinda go there as well.  Same team and reaping from the Walker trade.  I think the narrative can change, but it's gonna be someone like Chris Peterson who needs a chance.

Barry wasn't a good NFL coach, he just didn't get in the way of what Jimmy had built.  Then it crumbled faster than a house of cards after that.   He was the first knucklehead to go for it on 4th and 1 inside his own 30, in a tie football game, IIRC.

10 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I posted his playoff history with the Saints a few pages back, lemme go find it...

 

Sean Payton and the Saints are completely overrated. Regular season heroes, but playoff chumps. To wit:

2006, after the Katrina nightmare, they have an emotional season, beat Philly for their first playoff win, but come up flat in the NFC Champ game against the Bears, losing 39-14. Playoff record: 1-1 

They don't go back to the playoffs till 2009, where they end up winning it all. Playoff record 4-1.

2010, they get Beast Quaked outta the offs by 7-9 Seattle. Playoff record 4-2.

2011, back again, beating the Lions (like every single team that's ever played them in the playoffs has done), then losing a close one to San Fran. Playoff record 5-3.

2013 they return, beating us again, then losing to Seattle in the divisional round. Playoff record 6-4.

2017 is the next apperance! Losing in spectacular fashion, the Minnesota Miracle or whatever the hell it was. They did beat Carolina in the first round though. Playoff record 7-5.

2018, ah more crying when they lose to the Rams in OT, and of course, they beat us before getting to that game. Playoff record 8-6.

2019 - Lol, one and done with Minnesota again in OT. Playoff record at 8-7.

So, over 14 years, they've gone to the offs 8 times, winning it all once, and making 3 conference championships, of which they lost 2. 

 

They have completely owned us in the playoffs unfortunately. But the Saints are one of the most overrated teams in football. 

If this is our fate as Eagle fans for the next 14 years, where do I sign?  

19 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Also not related to anyone in the Brady bunch. 

Also not related he doesn't kiss his son on the lips.

15 minutes ago, austinfan said:

He wasn't bad, he fell off but he wasn't terrible. He shared time with Abry Jones, 6'4 318 DT, who obviously wasn't a one gap type. 4 sacks total from 2017-2019. They had brought in Dareus in 2017 and he was the starter at the other DT spot in 2018 at 331 lbs, but at that point in his career he was just a big two gap type.

They went from giving up 4.3 ypc to 4.1 ypc from 2017 to 2018, so the run defense improved, but went from 55 sacks to 37 sacks.

Omg he was a 55 grade against the run. Even your article Marcus hayes Pointed that out. Do you realize how bad that is? That is one of the worst grades in the entire NFL for his position against the run in 2018. He was ranked 105th defensive tackle in the league that year in 2018! He got benched because his run defense was so atrocious. Quit making excuses it was bad

you keep making excuses for his bad play.  Please just stop with your spin. He was bad. When you’re ranked 105th at your position and expected to be a starter you played bad.

unfortunately you do not want to believe the signs that he was declining. If you can’t accept that that is on you for having your head in the sand. It was talked about by a lot of us on this blog and on the old board. Only you believe he didn’t play bad even though he had one of the worst grades against the run for starting DTs and was ranked 105th out of like 120-130 defensive tackles. He definitely did not deserve the contract he got coming off the season he had in 2018. And that’s been the truth even at the time he signed that contract. 

Just now, Ipiggles said:

Happy they are trying, no problem there. And there is never a perfect system or way. I get that. 

I just dont follow the logic of the how/why in totality. Maybe the better way would be to reward both the team that is losing the coach, as they spent time developing them, and the team who is hiring them, as they are taking the chance and actually hiring them into a coveted position? 

But I do get again, that nothing is a perfect system. 

 

Well the NFL is at it's heart a meritocracy. So, the hiring team is going to hire the best candidate for the job, and that should be their reward. 

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Just for the sake of discussion, Jeffery was injured during the season, he just played through it.  So there was some red flags there.  

If you didn't see the Brooks and Peters injuries coming, that's on you.  Brooks already had popped an Achilles... so that was more likely to happen again - happened with Demeco Ryans while he was here.  happened with Jordan Hicks while he was here.  It should have been 'on the radar'... and who would have seen injury coming to a 39 year old OL that had been dealing with chronic injuries for the last 4 years getting injured... I mean that's just bizarro world to expect that.  Lane had the ankle going into the off season, so maybe a little concern that he doesn't come back or can't stay back.   Seumalo, Driscoll and Opeta, sure.  Those are unpredictable, the others were very predictable and were a matter of when, not if.

So when he's 173? 

Brooks didn't re-injure his same achilles.

Adam Schein is a very loud, bombastic hot-take type of commentator, but I had to laugh this morning when a Falcons fan called his show and said he was disappointed with an Arthur Smith hire.  Schein asked the caller who his choice was, and when the caller said Doug Pederson, Schein was not on board:

”Doug Pederson!!?  Do you like sports?  Do you watch the games?”

Pretty good put down of a caller, but I doubt he’ll call in to the show again

26 minutes ago, hputenis said:

My friend, an extremely knowledgeable Giants fan, shared a hilarious theory with me the other day, and I tend to agree with him on this.  

I don't want my HC to look like he can play in the league (ie Robert Saleh).   I want my head coach to look like he's had some wear and tear.  The fat slob look has proven it can work (Andy Reid, Mike Holmgren to an extent).   I'd rather my head coach stay in his office until early in the morning, designing his offensive/defensive game plan for Sunday, with cartons of Chinese food all over his desk and maybe his OC or DC passed out on the floor.  I don't want my head coach using the team facilities to lift weights and workout to re-live his glory days.  Kyle Shanahan looks like a pencil-neck runt, and he wears a straight-brimmed hat, so he doesn't count.  And Sean McVay is 5'2, so he doesn't count either.    

Perfect HC then? 😂 

 

 

3 minutes ago, greend said:

Not even close. So that answers my original question

I think Hurts has shown enough to replace Wentz this year if you think there is a QB in the draft next year worth going 0-16 for.

Just now, hputenis said:

If this is our fate as Eagle fans for the next 14 years, where do I sign?  

Well let's dive in, shall we?

2006 - Beat the Giants, lose to NO 1-1

2008 - Beat Minny, Giants, Lose to Zona 3-2

2009 - Lose to Dallas 🤢 3-3

2010 - Lose to GB 3-4

2013 - Lose to NO 3-5

2017 - We all know, 6-5, SUPERBOWL BABY

2018 - Beat Bears, lose to NO 7-6

2019 - Lose to Seattle 7-7

So, same 14 year span, same 8 trips to the playoffs, same 1 Super Bowl, the Saints have 1 more conference championship appearance, but that's it. 

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Barry wasn't a good NFL coach, he just didn't get in the way of what Jimmy had built.  Then it crumbled faster than a house of cards after that.   He was the first knucklehead to go for it on 4th and 1 inside his own 30, in a tie football game, IIRC.

Maybe he was just a pioneer for analytics though!!!  He was the only other one I could think of...off the top of my head...coming off of a night shift!

5 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Again — the incentive is for developing minority coaches.  Not sure why this is an abstract idea or initiative 

Well it seems kind of backward to me. You can hire and develop the assistant coaches all you want, it still takes someone else to actually hire them into the top positions to achieve the goal. You get rewarded when you yourself have NOT hired that coach into a top position?  

Now I do get the goal is to increase the ratio of minority coaches in the NFL in total. Just not sure this is how I would do that. And again I admit there is never a perfect system.  

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

Well let's dive in, shall we?

2006 - Beat the Giants, lose to NO 1-1

2008 - Beat Minny, Giants, Lose to Zona 3-2

2009 - Lose to Dallas 🤢 3-3

2010 - Lose to GB 3-4

2013 - Lose to NO 3-5

2017 - We all know, 6-5, SUPERBOWL BABY

2018 - Beat Bears, lose to NO 7-6

2019 - Lose to Seattle 7-7

So, same 14 year span, same 8 trips to the playoffs, same 1 Super Bowl, the Saints have 1 more conference championship appearance, but that's it. 

I realize we were basically just as successful as they were the last 14 years....much more so the last 20.  I was strictly speaking over the next 14 years, of which I have little confidence in at the moment.