1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I kind of also buy into Mike misseneli’s theory on Carson and doug. I do think Carson Wentz had issues with doug where he might not have thought Doug was smart enough so he didn’t buy into what he was selling. I think wentz might have viewed 2017 as more of Frank reich was the guy he admired and his offseason training was the reason he reached the heights he did. With Doug he just always viewed as someone who he had a work relationship with, didn’t hate him but just didn’t think that he was the right person to get him where he wanted to go 

There’s definitely a lack of respect and trust all the way around. We’ll never know the full story, but what’s been reported makes all the parties look bad. 

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

There’s definitely a lack of respect and trust all the way around. We’ll never know the full story, but what’s been reported makes all the parties look bad. 

Yeah. I tend to think it’s both ways. But the leaks that are coming out right now are awful for the Eagles. It makes it look so much worse because somebody is talking. I would say it’s not from inside the organization but We’ve seen in the past that’s not true. Like 2011 we had this crap going on. Ans then after the reid firing in 2012. The eagles even before doug got fired had this stuff leaking. Like it’s been an issue for years now. At some point you need to figure out who keeps running their mouth and doing so cause it makes the situations by far worse 

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I kind of also buy into Mike misseneli’s theory on Carson and doug. I do think Carson Wentz had issues with doug where he might not have thought Doug was smart enough so he didn’t buy into what he was selling. I think wentz might have viewed 2017 as more of Frank reich was the guy he admired and his offseason training was the reason he reached the heights he did. With Doug he just always viewed as someone who he had a work relationship with, didn’t hate him but just didn’t think that he was the right person to get him where he wanted to go 

Carson has a fresh start now with some bright guys.  Night and day.  Could not ask for much more.

24 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Not sure when it happened, but Ive noticed TDN now has Farley ranked above Surtain. 

I'm going to continue my comparison of Surtain and Malcolm Jenkins.  I think Surtain is an elite college corner who doesn't project to much more than just an average NFL corner.  His best days will be moved to safety in a few years. 

Man, picking sixth seems so underwhelming. 

I believe McLane's story that the Eagles never really wanted Doug all that much. Not just because he reported it, other reporters stuff, plus their actions back it up. To recap: McLane reported Doug's list of his desired coaching staff in their 2016 interview was so underwhelming they had second thoughts about him and he wasn't even their first choice to begin with. Also reported he didn't fit what they truly desired as a head coach in certain criteria.

-Eagles wanted Gase, McAdoo, and maybe even Coughlin(remember that?) first

-Reports said the Eagles considered firing him after 2016. Backed up by multiple Eagles reporters.

-Never let him pick his staff and forced staffers down his throat

-Fired him a few years after their first SB in franchise history, but at the same time skirt Howie Roseman of all blame

I think in 2016 Lurie didn't expect to be looking for a new head coach until things spiraled with Chip, it happened to be a really bad year to have a coaching vacancy as the candidates that year were so weak, and they ended up hiring a guy they really weren't all that impressed with, hoping to strike gold with the Andy Reid tree.

That's how I see it. I think the Wentz stuff is part of it, but I don't believe Lurie or Howie truly ever thought Doug was anything special.

9 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I’m not at all defending his reported proposed staff, just like no one should defend Howie for reportedly asking Doug to fire Reich or Lowie for meeting with Schwartz for a quasi-interview after the 2016 season. 

Yea, I agree with you, both sides were probably wrong here. From the reports it feels like Lowie settled and never trusted Doug, but he somehow won a SB so they gave him a longer leash which he used on Groh/Walch which made them lose trust in him again. 

Just now, ManuManu said:

Man, picking sixth seems so underwhelming. 

I kind of agree. Without looking at Surtain closely myself, Im slightly underwhelmed by Chase, a little afraid of Smith's size... and Pitts may be the most cant miss player but TE is extremely underwhelming at 6th overall. OT- not even a need. We are in good shape with Mailata and Driscoll. Dont care for any guard at 6 either... no DL.... 

I may decide Surtain or Farley are the guy, or maybe watching Chase more closely he wins me back over. But right now Im all about a trade down. 

Of course this would be the year we actually get this kind of pick. 

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Man, picking sixth seems so underwhelming. 

On the plus side, this feels like a prime board for a trade down 

DeVonta Smith at 6 would be great for us. While he isn't a complete speedster, he accelerates out of his breaks. He'll get open, and he has a weird stride when he's running laterally that allows him to surprise defenses with how fast he turns the corner after the catch. Very good hands. Sure, there are some concerns, but there almost always are with any player.

4 hours ago, downundermike said:

 

Howie is dumb.. D U M dumb.   He traded for him AND gave him a new deal.  He'll cost the team $5M after he's cut for 2021.

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

I kind of agree. Without looking at Surtain closely myself, Im slightly underwhelmed by Chase, a little afraid of Smith's size... and Pitts may be the most cant miss player but TE is extremely underwhelming at 6th overall. OT- not even a need. We are in good shape with Mailata and Driscoll. Dont care for any guard at 6 either... no DL.... 

I may decide Surtain or Farley are the guy, or maybe watching Chase more closely he wins me back over. But right now Im all about a trade down. 

Of course this would be the year we actually get this kind of pick. 

Agree.  If this is how the board falls and this is what our options are I have to say not one of them is worth the #6 overall to me.  I know we have to pick someone, but all of them are a reach at that spot.  I really hope some team wants to trade up and grab their QB so we can slide down and acquire more picks, especially a 2nd rounder as there will be value through the first 3 rounds.  Just a poor year for the top end of the draft with more value later on. 

8 minutes ago, Miami said:

Carson has a fresh start now with some bright guys.  Night and day.  Could not ask for much more.

Agreed. If he’s not able to get on board at this point then it’s on him. He should be receptive to coaching and the guys put in place. However I’m not so sure this team next year is going to be very good. I said this before last year I didn’t think they were very good team and that was before all the injuries hit. I thought they were a ceiling 9 win team and likely a 7-8 win team if they stayed relatively healthy. I look at the roster this way you’re still going to have very young wide receivers out there next year. Your offense of line you don’t know who’s got a hold up and who isn’t. Is kelce back? I’m doubting it. I do think the defense if you could bring some cheap free agents in and add some talent in the draft could actually be a top half of the league defense. I think the scheme adjustment you might see more turnovers from the Eagles. However they need to add youth on that side of the ball because all of the really good players are older players. I still see if wentz returns to form as a 7-8 win team. After getting below the cap, draft and some FA signings i may change my mind. 

4 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Helluva sixth-round pick. 

I think the knee is the concern.  Thats why he fell.  And with no chance to really do health checks, I cant fault them for that one.  A 6th round pick is worth that risk.  A 2nd with Jones was not.

4 hours ago, DeathByEagle said:

A very large majority of the fans were thrilled and excited that Howie made the trade to bring DJax back. Yes it didnt work out, but lets not pretend us fans were not on board with this move now that it failed. 

The issue for me was never the trade.  It was the new contract that made it dumb.  Just trading is a risk, but with limited cost.  But, the new contract forced their hand and cost much more than the lost pick did to the team.

10 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Man, picking sixth seems so underwhelming. 

The only guarantee when the Eagles pick is that the broadcast will go to commercial as soon as their pick is in!

19 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I believe McLane's story that the Eagles never really wanted Doug all that much. Not just because he reported it, other reporters stuff, plus their actions back it up. To recap: McLane reported Doug's list of his desired coaching staff in their 2016 interview was so underwhelming they had second thoughts about him and he wasn't even their first choice to begin with. Also reported he didn't fit what they truly desired as a head coach in certain criteria.

-Eagles wanted Gase, McAdoo, and maybe even Coughlin(remember that?) first

-Reports said the Eagles considered firing him after 2016. Backed up by multiple Eagles reporters.

-Never let him pick his staff and forced staffers down his throat

-Fired him a few years after their first SB in franchise history, but at the same time skirt Howie Roseman of all blame

I think in 2016 Lurie didn't expect to be looking for a new head coach until things spiraled with Chip, it happened to be a really bad year to have a coaching vacancy as the candidates that year were so weak, and they ended up hiring a guy they really weren't all that impressed with, hoping to strike gold with the Andy Reid tree.

That's how I see it. I think the Wentz stuff is part of it, but I don't believe Lurie or Howie truly ever thought Doug was anything special.

That part I can agree with you on. I think the Eagles looked at the five years doug was here and saw a mediocre to bad offense in about 4 of the 5 years. Additionally i think they saw the decline of the offense for 3 consecutive years with really no to minimal adjustments were made for weeks at a time or using personnel to their strengths nearly enough and thought there’s coaches around the league who’d get more out fo some of the guys they had.

I also think they look at some of the young guys on this team and say they are better than what they’re showing and they believe it’s because the coaches that were on that staff the last three years haven’t developed them as well as they should have. I think it’s both poor draft and poor development personally. But i think the eagles FO believes it’s the development. 

tbh i think in terms of doug, if the eagles were just mediocre in 2017 or fringe playoff team might have been fired then. I tend to think the eagles believed going into the 2017 that if the eagles were close to being a playoff team with wentz they could get a coach that helps them make the leap to the next level. Doug and the eagles won the SB at that point there was no way the eagles were going to love on and i think thought maybe they were wrong. But as the next 3 years unfolded i think they believe more now that doug is a good leader but play designer and player development he wasn’t good enough. 

i’ll even put this out there I wouldn’t be shocked if someone inside the Eagles organization told Lombardi how they truly felt about Doug Peterson after the 2016 season. And Lombardi ran with it and expanded on it as he also felt his friend Schwartz was more deserving of the job especially if the eagles felt that way. 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I think the knee is the concern.  Thats why he fell.  And with no chance to really do health checks, I cant fault them for that one.  A 6th round pick is worth that risk.  A 2nd with Jones was not.

I don’t necessarily fault anyone for missing on a sixth-round pick, but I’d hope any sixth round pick would be good enough to last on an expanded practice squad or be signed to a futures deal. 

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The issue for me was never the trade.  It was the new contract that made it dumb.  Just trading is a risk, but with limited cost.  But, the new contract forced their hand and cost much more than the lost pick did to the team.

I hated both aspects of it but the new contract was way worse than the compensation they gave up to get him. Redoing the contract at his age when he already showed he wasn’t going to play 16 games and weekly you would have concerns if he was going to be out there was ridiculous. They made it impossible to get out of it if something like this happened where his body just completely couldnt stay healthy 

2 hours ago, austinfan said:

That's all you ever know, but notice the hot market for Groh and Press Taylor?

The "hottest" coaches were Fipp, Pelle and Stoutland, all "forced" upon Pederson (I don't think they were forced, I suspect he didn't have alternatives lined up).

What are you talking about?  Groh was snatched up immediately and put back where he belongs, WR coach.  Meanwhile, Taylor was literally let go today, we'll see where he lands.  

You really think Stoutland was forced on him?  Oh, and Fipp has sucked for the last 3 years as ST coach.  

 

Your green FO can do no wrong glasses make everything look like Howie did it all right, every time, every way.  Its disgusting.  Howie is the architect of this failure.  Howie was able to push all the blame on to others though, as is his custom.  It would be refreshing to see you once say something critical about him.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

What are you talking about?  Groh was snatched up immediately and put back where he belongs, WR coach.  Meanwhile, Taylor was literally let go today, we'll see where he lands.  

You really think Stoutland was forced on him?  Oh, and Fipp has sucked for the last 3 years as ST coach.  

 

Your green FO can do no wrong glasses make everything look like Howie did it all right, every time, every way.  Its disgusting.  Howie is the architect of this failure.  Howie was able to push all the blame on to others though, as is his custom.  It would be refreshing to see you once say something critical about him.

Yup. Reich made room for Groh by moving Patullo pass game analyst. 

1 hour ago, Freshmilk said:

Doug as a victim is getting tiresome.  He was not a good coach, the guys he promoted did poorly, players didn't develop- and it could be said that players digressed rather than progressed all while he was the Head Coach.  We just watched our QB, our record setting TE, all our WRs, our good RB look worse from last year to this year.  Furthermore, he continually ran Peters and Pryor out there when both were clearly not as good as other offensive linemen.  He let Gerry play all day long until he got hurt and poor Doug is a victim......

Doug was not a victim.  But he was certainly not the only one to blame.  Howie's gross mismanagement is as much, if not more, to blame.  But here we are, another year with Howie in the same position.

In Fipp’s defense, the team was so ravaged by injury that he couldn’t even field regular special teamers for much of the time. And who knows how much say he had about adding better kick and punt returners. 

The fact that Lowie has such an extensive coaching search this time may well reflect that they felt boxed in by 2016, and vowed not to "settle" for a coach again.

AR wasn't pushed out, it was obvious he had to go for his own sanity, the death of his son meant going back to those practice fields must have been gut wrenching. By going to KC he could avoid constant reminders of his tragedy.

Chip was a gamble, and a mistake built around trying to be too smart (just like hiring Urban Meyers), college coaches without NFL experience almost never succeed. Chip too the league by surprise, but a factor in his success that's generally ignored is how healthy the OL was for two years under Stoutland,  all five starters played 16 games in 2013, and Peters and Mathis were all pro. 2014 there were injuries, Mathis only played 9 games, Kelce 12, Herremans 8, Lane 12,  Stoutland managed to plug in Andrew Gardne, Tobin and Molk. Chip managed to score 474 points with Foles and Sanchez at QB. Chip dumps McCoy and Maclin and the roof caves in in 2015 with Barbre at LG and Tobin at RG. 

Pederson wasn't their first or second choice, but he was the right guy at the right time with the right luck. But Howie built that team after Chip dismantled it. His mistake was not recognizing that 2017 was a fluke season when everything went right, and a 10-6 team went 12-4, the next two seasons despite his attempts to patch it, it was a 10-6 team that went 9-7. Last season was a 8-8 team that went 4-11-1. But no real harm, the rebuild was inevitable, it's a year late but the bad luck of last season means a better draft than expected.

I don't know if Sirianni will succeed, but of all the candidates, he's probably the best to preside over a two year rebuild, especially with his choice of DC. Because the next two years aren't about pulling miracles out of a hat, but the steady slough of a rebuild, coaching up players, auditioning lots of players, identifying "keepers." If he can't turn it around in 2023, he'll leave a much younger and hopefully far more talented team behind him.

9 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I don’t necessarily fault anyone for missing on a sixth-round pick, but I’d hope any sixth round pick would be good enough to last on an expanded practice squad or be signed to a futures deal. 

I think that they might have tried to sign him to a futures deal, but Prince chose not to sign that deal, because he'd heard from the Chiefs.  We'll see what happens with him nowm