2 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Zero? That's pretty extreme. It's definitely not zero. If Wentz doesn't want to be here, he could easily come into camp and look like guys often do when they're unhappy. Disinterested, sloppy, unfocused, etc. And Hurts, a competitor, could have worked his ass off all spring and come into camp looking good. I don't think that possibility can be discounted.

That isn’t the person Wentz is 

4 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Maybe they have become that delusional and have just totally gone off the deep end, but to subject their brand new head coach to that mess in his first year coaching in the NFL seems like setting him up to fail, which would in turn make them look awful for hiring a head coach who they made it hard on to succeed. Nothing would surprise me with these clowns.

All i know is i don’t think they want to deal wentz or hurts. I believe DJ and Brandt they aren’t going to deal him unless he makes it hard on them and forces their hand which would make sense he goes the route of Deshaun watson and put it out there to force their hand as if we believe DJ in his podcast.

i think they’ve always viewed it you want two good QBs on the team with the nfl going 17 games and three importance of having good QBs behind your starter. I also think they didn’t draft hurts to just be the backup. I think it was always an insurance plan if wentz played more like early season wentz in 2019 and not late season. They figured we are stuck with his contract at least through 2021. So by then hurts should be ready if wentz failed. 

3 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

That isn’t the person Wentz is 

I don't think we even know what kinda person Wentz is anymore. Dude is unhappy with the organization who did everything for him for some reason. As more information comes out, I'm starting to doubt more and more about who he is. Not as a human being, but as a gamer.

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t think that is true. I think they are likely a good QB away from being a legitimate SB contender. Ive felt this way the past couple years if they had a better QB than Goff then mcvay wouldn’t be held back. if they had a good QB in 2018 they likely win a super bowl. I feel like they had a good shot at beating GB with a better QB. They beat the bucs this year with Goff. I think they view with a big upgrade they are likely right here  

That said i think they are delusional for thinking Stafford was worth that much in a trade when he’s 33 and had serious injuries in the past. I think they are also delusional to think Stafford is still in his prime years. He’s likely at the end of it. 

Snead will be fired within 2 years.  Whether it’s Goff or Stafford, that offense just isn’t good enough.  McVay ate Schwartz’s lunch by out-flanking him repeatedly, but there isn’t a lot of talent on that side of the ball.  They’ve mortgaged their future to be Super Bowl or bust, and they won’t be a playoff team next season with SEA and SF both better

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

They have backed themselves into an impossible situation of choosing between concessions that "can't happen."

They can't trade Wentz with that contract.

They can't trade Hurts for anything less than a high 2nd after their recent controversial pick.   And they'll never get that.

They also can't go into camp with Wentz and Hurts in a competition...or, maybe worse...in a predetermined pecking order, which might divide the team and create a circus.  It was a problem last year when there was no competition and Hurts was a rookie, now it's magnified x100.

 

So they will go with option #3, because that's the one that involves status quo and can be spun to the best of their ability with minimal egg to face.

You are making the assumption the eagles aren’t dumb enough to believe they can make it work having wentz come back and keep hurts. I don’t put that out of the realm of their thinking. 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Are we talking early season 2019 wentz or late 2019 season wentz? If it’s late season 2019 i don’t think they are going to deal him if he’s playing at that level. Even if he plays like early season 2019 wentz you likely aren’t getting what you think. 

if wentz bottoms out in 2021 again I’m guessing they take the sunk cost of 24 mil dead money and clear 6+ mil cap space (assuming he’s not traded). 

Late 2019 Wentz was against horrific teams.  That was more about the competition than it was about any glimpse of him returning to something special, IMO.  They had an extremely asymmetric schedule in 2019.  We didn't see 2 different Wentz's, we just saw the same average QB against different tiers of competition...who got a bit re-energized against pushovers when the season was on the line.  JMO.

I don't think Wentz will be nearly as bad in 2020.  A new staff, some fresh air, soul searching, and random chance will have him better than that.  Forget 2017, that's officially ancient history.  I'm wondering if he can be a very good efficient passer like 2018, if he's going to be a mediocre and erratic passer like 2019, or if he's going to be a bad passer who is only modestly improved from 2020.  

And the real question is what we want out of Wentz after we accept that 2017 isn't happening.  Do we want to commit to a 28 year old injury prone QB who will never be 2017 again when the rest of the roster is still being rebuilt from the ashes?  Are we trying to rehabilitate him for a trade down the road?  Are we just trying to save face and soften the blow over 2 years so he can be cut whenever the most cap friendly moment comes along?

8 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I don’t think you can really compare this to trading Wentz. They had multiple offers and Rams wanted to unload Goff. That means they had to beat everyone out. 

Lol they got excited thinking this is a certainty that Wentz is traded

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

You are making the assumption the eagles aren’t dumb enough to believe they can make it work having wentz come back and keep hurts. I don’t put that out of the realm of their thinking. 

I guarantee that’s their thinking, but Hurts’ value will never be higher than it is right now, with people pushing the narrative that he was actually impressive in his starts.  The Eagles should hope one team believes it and picks up the phone.  
 

There might be teams that missed out on Stafford, can’t afford Watson, and go fishing for an alternative.  If there was seriously 9 teams offering a 1st for Stafford there should be at least one offering a 2nd for Hurts

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

All i know is i don’t think they want to deal wentz or hurts. I believe DJ and Brandt they aren’t going to deal him unless he makes it hard on them and forces their hand which would make sense he goes the route of Deshaun watson and put it out there to force their hand as if we believe DJ in his podcast.

i think they’ve always viewed it you want two good QBs on the team with the nfl going 17 games and three importance of having good QBs behind your starter. I also think they didn’t draft hurts to just be the backup. I think it was always an insurance plan if wentz played more like early season wentz in 2019 and not late season. They figured we are stuck with his contract at least through 2021. So by then hurts should be ready if wentz failed. 

If they are really this naive and delusional then we are doomed as an organization. So for our sake let's hope they are smarter than this.

Just now, Alphagrand said:

Snead will be fired within 2 years.  Whether it’s Goff or Stafford, that offense just isn’t good enough.  McVay ate Schwartz’s lunch by out-flanking him repeatedly, but there isn’t a lot of talent on that side of the ball.  They’ve mortgaged their future to be Super Bowl or bust, and they won’t be a playoff team next season with SEA and SF both better

I’d be willing to bet seattle isn’t better than them. Seattle lost twice to the Rams this year in 3 games with Goff at QB. That defense owned Wilson. This year the Rams with Goff who i believe is an inferior QB to Stafford and i don’t think Stafford is some great QB really took it to seattle. Stafford is definitely an upgrade over Goff. How much is the question.  That’s not even questionable that Stafford is a better qb. Goff limited that offense severely. No offense Goff is an idiot that mcvay had to jump through hoops to just make him look competent. the USA Today story about mcvay and Goff where Goff was basically clueless on reading the defense. 

SF depending on what happens at QB i can definitely see. I think SF is up there when healthy.  

also I’d disagree they don’t have talent on that side of the ball. Can Akers looked great down the stretch for them. Also Robert woods was like 64 yards away from 3 consecutive year of 1000 yards. And cooper kupp is a nice slot receiver. Also still hve other draft picks where they can add.  

I don’t even disagree with you that Snead is going to be fired in two years especially when this blows up in their face and they don’t win a Super Bowl. However to say they weren’t a QB away is ridiculous. They got to the divisional round of the playoffs beating the Seahawks with a QB having thumb surgery a week prior. 

Wentz is staying and maybe Hurts will be the guy to go, cause the Eagles aren’t giving Wentz up and picks just to move him.  If he really wants to be traded, he can look at this trade and realize it ain’t happening.  Happy, unhappy, whatever, dude needs to put his big boy pants on and get ready to play for the Eagles in 2021. 

Another thing too is the Eagles had every opportunity to commit to Wentz fully in all their press conferences. Howie, Lurie, Sirianni all danced around the questions regarding Wentz. They could have very easily said Wentz is our QB and he's not going anywhere, we are committed to making it work with him. The fact that they were so nonpartisan and noncommittal at least suggests to me they are open to trading him if the right deal comes along.

I really think it depends on the offer. I don't think they'll trade him if they have to give up picks to have a team take him, but if they get a good draft pick I think they'd consider it. Otherwise, they truly did take Hurts to be a backup, which is utterly moronic. Which is entirely possible.

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

 

This is why we can't trade Carson IMO.  The Rams just set the bar for what it takes to salary dump a quarterback.  I think the Eagles would have to do the same to unload Carson.  It just doesn't make sense.

47 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

That is way too much for Stafford IMO

I thought the same but I'm not sure what  Staffords contract looks like.  I'm assuming the Rams gave up those draft picks because Detroit has to take on Goff's contract.  Otherwise, it's an awful deal.

42 minutes ago, The Blackfish said:

Goff’s record is 42-27.  63% completion% 

107 tds and 55 ints for 18,100 yards 

129 sacks   91.2 passer rating

Wentz record is  35-31-1.  62.7 completion%

113 tds and 50 ints  for  16,800 yards  

179 sacks   89.2 passer rating.

Does this mean the Eagles are gonna have to give up picks just to move Wentz?    I can’t see Howie ever doing that. 

 

 

Similar numbers with Wentz missing more games.  Goff is definitely more accurate but I feel Wentz is the more talented QB.

The Sacks number is alarming.  I know he takes alot of sacks but damn that's alot.  

14 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Lol they got excited thinking this is a certainty that Wentz is traded

Haven’t seen that anywhere. My comment was to anyone saying Wentz trade value was killed with this. It’s two completely different situations.

9 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Late 2019 Wentz was against horrific teams.  That was more about the competition than it was about any glimpse of him returning to something special, IMO.  They had an extremely asymmetric schedule in 2019.  We didn't see 2 different Wentz's, we just saw the same average QB against different tiers of competition...who got a bit re-energized against pushovers when the season was on the line.  JMO.

I don't think Wentz will be nearly as bad in 2020.  A new staff, some fresh air, soul searching, and random chance will have him better than that.  Forget 2017, that's officially ancient history.  I'm wondering if he can be a very good efficient passer like 2018, if he's going to be a mediocre and erratic passer like 2019, or if he's going to be a bad passer who is only modestly improved from 2020.  

And the real question is what we want out of Wentz after we accept that 2017 isn't happening.  Do we want to commit to a 28 year old injury prone QB who will never be 2017 again when the rest of the roster is still being rebuilt from the ashes?  Are we trying to rehabilitate him for a trade down the road?  Are we just trying to save face and soften the blow over 2 years so he can be cut whenever the most cap friendly moment comes along?

I don’t disagree that late 2019 Carson Wentz came against some of the worst teams in the league. It’s why believe when they drafted Jalen Hurts it was the Eagles didn’t know if Carson Wentz was actually late 2019 Carson Wentz or if he was more like early season 2019 Carson wins because of who they played and that late 2019 wentz was pyrite/fools gold. I think they drafted Jalen Hurts with the assumption that they had two years with Carson Wentz before they can move on from him with that contact. They believed in Carson in two years was not like he was late season 2019 that they would move on from him and by that time Jalen hurts would be groomed enough to take over and be the starter. if wentz recaptured the late 2019 season form consistently then they play the concoction of they needed a cheap backup QB. I firmly believe that was their plan. They had a Plan B in case things went south with Carson. That sounds a lot like something to Eagles would do.

i’ve also said that the Eagles have to be honest with themselves when they look at both of these QBs. If you do not believe you can get Carson Wentz playing consistently like the end of 2019 or 2017 then you should move on. You’re only winning a Super Bowl and that’s the goal if you can get him back to playing at that level. That’s the type of quarterback play you need along with a good team to win a Super Bowl. So if you cannot get back to that level then you consider moving on from him because then you’re just spinning your wheels in the mud. And the same thing goes for Jalen hurts. If you do not think you could get him to play at the level that Carson did in 2017 then you also have to consider drafting a quarterback at 6. But you can’t talk yourself into it you age. To believe you can otherwise you are just wasting time 

12 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

If they are really this naive and delusional then we are doomed as an organization. So for our sake let's hope they are smarter than this.

I am of the belief they are delusional enough to believe that. 

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

This is why we can't trade Carson IMO.  The Rams just set the bar for what it takes to salary dump a quarterback.  I think the Eagles would have to do the same to unload Carson.  It just doesn't make sense.

Disagree. The driving force behind the Stafford trade was getting Stafford. It was not just dumping Goff. Dumping Goff made the Rams have to pay more than the Broncos or Colts hypothetically just trading two 1’s because so many teams were in play. Unless the Eagles are trying to land Watson, Wentz is the center piece of a trade, not a side item. 

17 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

If they are really this naive and delusional then we are doomed as an organization. So for our sake let's hope they are smarter than this.

Of course they are that delusional. It’s Howie Roseman and Jeffery Lurie. 

5 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Haven’t seen that anywhere. My comment was to anyone saying Wentz trade value was killed with this. It’s two completely different situations.

I've seen it a bunch already. Ok moving along

20 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I guarantee that’s their thinking, but Hurts’ value will never be higher than it is right now, with people pushing the narrative that he was actually impressive in his starts.  The Eagles should hope one team believes it and picks up the phone.  
 

There might be teams that missed out on Stafford, can’t afford Watson, and go fishing for an alternative.  If there was seriously 9 teams offering a 1st for Stafford there should be at least one offering a 2nd for Hurts

I don’t disagree with your assessment that trading Jalen hurts and his value likely is never going to be higher unless he goes out there and balls out. And at that point you’re not gonna trade him.

I also think the Eagles could spin it as well we got one year of a cheap back up and the second round pick back. I almost guarantee if they traded him that’s what they would spin it

id need to know who the 9 teams were. I’m guessing colts, Rams, niners are the three obvious. I’m also assuming teams like the Saints, Patriots, Washington, bears (unlikely to get as same division), raiders (can get ot of Carr’s contract easily) and Broncos are the other six. I think most of those teams are looking for a proven veteran starting quarterback to lead them because they feel as though they are on the cusp of being playoff teams or Super Bowl title contenders. I’m not sure any of those teams would be willing to give you a second round pick for Jalen Hurts as he’s unproven commodity.

15 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Another thing too is the Eagles had every opportunity to commit to Wentz fully in all their press conferences. Howie, Lurie, Sirianni all danced around the questions regarding Wentz. They could have very easily said Wentz is our QB and he's not going anywhere, we are committed to making it work with him. The fact that they were so nonpartisan and noncommittal at least suggests to me they are open to trading him if the right deal comes along.

I really think it depends on the offer. I don't think they'll trade him if they have to give up picks to have a team take him, but if they get a good draft pick I think they'd consider it. Otherwise, they truly did take Hurts to be a backup, which is utterly moronic. Which is entirely possible.

I don't think the Eagles are thinking about trading Wentz at all. They just care a lot about public perception. So while maybe they would have liked to endorse Wentz as the starter in one of these press conferences, they knew it would look bad to not embrace a QB competition (which Wentz doesn't want to hear). So Sirianni had to toe the line for Lowie. 

If they were considering trading Wentz, they still could have committed to Wentz in the press conference. That happens all the time.

59 minutes ago, The Blackfish said:

Goff’s record is 42-27.  63% completion% 

107 tds and 55 ints for 18,100 yards 

129 sacks   91.2 passer rating

Wentz record is  35-31-1.  62.7 completion%

113 tds and 50 ints  for  16,800 yards  

179 sacks   89.2 passer rating.

Does this mean the Eagles are gonna have to give up picks just to move Wentz?    I can’t see Howie ever doing that. 

 

 

Wentz had 10 fumbles last year in 13 games

Goff had 7 in 18 games 

4 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

 Wentz had 10 fumbles last year in 13 games

Goff had 7 in 18 games 

Goff also had a much better offensive line. Like some of those fumbles are clearly on wentz like the Dallas fumble. Some of them weren’t. Goff’s line was much better. I’m betting with the lions Goff sees a uptick of fumbles 

6 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

I don't think the Eagles are thinking about trading Wentz at all. They just care a lot about public perception. So while maybe they would have liked to endorse Wentz as starter in one of these press conferences, they knew it would look bad to not embrace a QB competition (which Wentz doesn't want to hear). So Sirianni had to toe the line for Lowie. 

If they were considering trading Wentz, they still could have committed to Wentz in the press conference. That happens all the time.

I think it also goes to you can’t have Nick sirianni going out there talking about everyone earns their job in competition in a presser then say wentz is the guy

to your second point they say a lot of things in press conferences and it means nothing. Doug Pederson went up there last year said his coordinators were going to be back and literally two days later they were gone. They had Doug at the podium with howie Roseman on Monday and the next week they fired him 

What a trade. Wow