7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Under this definition, the worst thing you can have is a non elite franchise qb.  That’s purgatory right there.

Don’t bother it’s not worth your time. It took him 2 hours to move the goal posts with that.  after we’ve had a back and forth for over 2 hours and he never remotely brought that up until his last post. 

9 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Omg now we are changing the goal post again to elite level franchise QB and true franchise level qb. Lol. You justify it anyway you want. Have a good night 

Come on buddy, we're not even disagreeing on whether or not Wentz was a franchise QB.  Everyone knows he was.  The only thing we're not completely agreeing on is how many total years the Eagles have not had "franchise QB play" over the past 10 years and I said 2 and you said 4.  And I went on to say even 6 out of 10 years of "franchise QB play" for most NFL teams is more than acceptable.  The lucky few teams (The Eagles during the 2000's with McNabb) that have more than 6 out of 10 years are in the minority. 

And no reason to get upset over it, it's not that "huge" of a subject imo.  We can agree to disagree on the rest.  

1 hour ago, Br3 said:

So 4 nfl games is enough to judge a rookie qb now? 

Hate to say it but that's the NFL right now.  There is no patience anymore.  

Not that I agree but it's such a priority to win now that teams cant wait for QBs to develop.

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

His second career start in 2010

 

I was only looking at 2011 I don’t even remember him playing in 2010 but so be it. He passed for 300 in his second start and needed OT to crack 300 in that playoff game. Good for Tebow.
And if you guys think Hurts is Tebow after watching him pass for 330+ twice in 4 games with no weapons is a fair comparison, well then good for you guys as well

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

His second career start in 2010

 

Lol damn I completely forgot about Schaub

4 minutes ago, Br3 said:

Explain how hurts doing more with less is a bad argument. Explain to me how hurts is a slightly better Tim Tebow. 

Ok - Hurts wasn't good at all.  He would probably perform admirably in normal rookie QB situations (the Eagles last year were toxic), but he is not an NFL starting QB. 

He was super fast when he played the Saints though (when they game planned for Carson) and he definitely wasn't Carson!  So yeah!  

 

 

 

Just now, Br3 said:

I was only looking at 2011 I don’t even remember him playing in 2010 but so be it. He passed for 300 in his second start and needed OT to crack 300 in that playoff game. Good for Tebow.
And if you guys think Hurts is Tebow after watching him pass for 330+ twice in 4 games with no weapons is a fair comparison well then good for you guys as well

Garbage time yards in the Cowboys game.  The fact that he only scored points on two of 22 second half drives tells you that defensive coordinators can adjust to him and stop him easily.

25 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

I've always wondered what FYP means, now I know.   🙏

You aren't the only one.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Garbage time yards in the Cowboys game.  The fact that he only scored points on two of 22 second half drives tells you that defensive coordinators can adjust to him and stop him easily.

Coaching? O line? Lack of weapons? All the excuses that get made for Carson don’t apply for a rookie? 

6 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Come on buddy, we're not even disagreeing on whether or not Wentz was a franchise QB.  Everyone knows he was.  The only thing we're not completely agreeing on is how many total years the Eagles have had "franchise QB play" over the past 10 years and I said 2 and you said 4.  And I went on to say even 6 out of 10 years of "franchise QB play" for most NFL teams is more than acceptable.  The lucky few teams (The Eagles during the 2000's with McNabb) that have more than 6 out of 10 years are in the minority. 

And no reason to get upset over it, it's not that "huge" of a subject imo.  We can agree to disagree on the rest.  

Im not upset about it. I just know you’re full of crap and move the goalpost to try and justify your reasoning. Even though things you’ve stated in the past counter what you’ve said today. And then to come with that last post that you just did after three hours of going back-and-forth that’s absolutely moving the goal posts to a definition. Have a good night. 

10 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Under this definition, the worst thing you can have is a non elite franchise qb.  That’s purgatory right there.

Not really.  This is a "rough estimate".  But you would have your 4-5 elite franchise QB's then another 12-14 "true franchise QB's"  The rest would either be a average or in name only.

3 minutes ago, Br3 said:

Coaching? O line? Lack of weapons? All the excuses that get made for Carson don’t apply for a rookie? 

The constant reply to that is good quarterbacks overcome those things, so thanks for confirming that hurts is not a good quarterback

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Im not upset about it. I just know you’re full of crap and move the goalpost to try and justify your reasoning. Even though things you’ve stated in the past counter what you’ve said today. Have a good night. 

I never moved the goal posts.  I even explained what I consider a "franchise QB" and the difference between that and "franchise QB play" level...which we really should be using "Solid starter" level of play.  But whatever.  Get some rest and stop being so grumpy.  

Just now, Ace Nova said:

I never moved the goal posts.  I even explained what I consider a "franchise QB" and the difference between that and "franchise QB play" level...which we really should be using "Solid starter" level of play.  But whatever.  Get some rest and stop being so grumpy.  

Whatever way you want to justify. 

13 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Hate to say it but that's the NFL right now.  There is no patience anymore.  

Not that I agree but it's such a priority to win now that teams cant wait for QBs to develop.

This is what drives me nuts (I agree with you by the way).  Even less than 10 years ago, you let your guys work through his crap.  Rothlispukeburger, Eli Manning, Rivers...............you don't replace them with something better (except for Eli).  1 bad season with every single bad thing that can possibly happen.   That happened to the Eagles this season.  But sure - let's throw in a guy that can't even throw a 25 yard out route.  I'm sure that 5 years after he was with Alabama that he all of a sudden figured out how to process defenses like Peyton Manning to make up for his lack of arm strength.  

 

 

 

For the franchise QB debate, rather than rank the QBs, here are the tiers of teams (IMO):

Elite Franchise QBs: KC/GB/SEA/HOU

On the doorstep: BUF

Teams that think they are developing an elite franchise QB: CIN, LAC, AZ, JAX (Lawrence is practically already there)...MIA?

Teams that have decent to very good QBs, know their limitations, and are just trying to win now with what they have: TB/TEN/MIN/DAL/LAR/OAK

Competitive teams heavily invested in QB's who won't take them anywhere: CLE, BAL

Teams with assets at QB who are getting ready to cut bait: PHL, NYJ, NYG, SF, PIT...MIA?

Teams in full-blown search mode: DET, WTF, NE, IND, ATL, CAR, NO

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

The constant reply to that is good quarterbacks overcome those things, so thanks for confirming that hurts is not a good quarterback

Carson has had 5 years in the league and still could not overcome those things 

Just now, Br3 said:

Carson has had 5 years in the league and still could not overcome those things 

Last year, not the previous years.

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Thanks.  I’m proud of it.  

If you make shirts of hurts tebowing you could have a great business for a couple years. Just call it hurtsing . 

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

For the franchise QB debate, rather than rank the QBs, here are the tiers of teams (IMO):

Elite Franchise QBs: KC/GB/SEA/HOU

On the doorstep: BUF

Teams that think they are developing an elite franchise QB: CIN, LAC, AZ, JAX (Lawrence is practically already there)...MIA?

Teams that have decent to very good QBs, know their limitations, and are just trying to win now with what they have: TB/TEN/MIN/DAL/LAR/OAK

Competitive teams heavily invested in QB's who won't take them anywhere: CLE, BAL

Teams with assets at QB who are getting ready to cut bait: PHL, NYJ, NYG, SF, PIT...MIA?

Teams in full-blown search mode: DET, WTF, NE, IND, ATL, CAR, NO

So 4-5 Elite franchise QB's.  11-13 "true franchise QB's" and then the rest.  From doing my original "guesstimate" from the top of my head, I came pretty close.  

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

For the franchise QB debate, rather than rank the QBs, here are the tiers of teams (IMO):

Elite Franchise QBs: KC/GB/SEA/HOU

On the doorstep: BUF

Teams that think they are developing an elite franchise QB: CIN, LAC, AZ, JAX (Lawrence is practically already there)...MIA?

Teams that have decent to very good QBs, know their limitations, and are just trying to win now with what they have: TB/TEN/MIN/DAL/LAR/OAK

Competitive teams heavily invested in QB's who won't take them anywhere: CLE, BAL

Teams with assets at QB who are getting ready to cut bait: PHL, NYJ, NYG, SF, PIT...MIA?

Teams in full-blown search mode: DET, WTF, NE, IND, ATL, CAR, NO

Idk atlanta committed to Matt Ryan. Say whatever you want Matt Ryan in the 5 year window has played like a top 10 QB outside of his 2017 season. His averaged over a five year window 67% completion, 4605 yards, 30 tds and 10 picks. That’s top 10 in like every major category 

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

For the franchise QB debate, rather than rank the QBs, here are the tiers of teams (IMO):

Elite Franchise QBs: KC/GB/SEA/HOU

On the doorstep: BUF

Teams that think they are developing an elite franchise QB: CIN, LAC, AZ, JAX (Lawrence is practically already there)...MIA?

Teams that have decent to very good QBs, know their limitations, and are just trying to win now with what they have: TB/TEN/MIN/DAL/LAR/OAK

Competitive teams heavily invested in QB's who won't take them anywhere: CLE, BAL

Teams with assets at QB who are getting ready to cut bait: PHL, NYJ, NYG, SF, PIT...MIA?

Teams in full-blown search mode: DET, WTF, NE, IND, ATL, CAR, NO

You're missing the most obvious team here my friend.  Would it surprise you at all if this brass thought that Hurts could be a franchise QB?  

 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Idk atlanta committed to Matt Ryan. Say whatever you want Matt Ryan in the 5 year window has played like a top 10 QB outside of his 2017 season. He’s averaged over a five year window 67% completion, 4605 yards, 30 tds and 10 picks. 

I definitely respect what Matt Ryan has done.  At 35 and on that team, however, that's a non-viable relationship at this point.  I assume ATL is aware of that, but I don't follow the falcons so I really don't know...maybe they go up a rung to teams with assets preparing to cut bait.

We’re not really comparing Hurts to Tebow are we? Lol

Just now, hputenis said:

You're missing the most obvious team here my friend.  Would it surprise you at all if this brass thought that Hurts could be a franchise QB?  

 

It's wishful thinking on my part that the Eagles are not in that group.