2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

You pick a QB, you build around him, you win games. It’s not some foreign or hard concept. You want to trade Wentz, fine. Then make Hurts the guy. Try to build a team around him. If he clearly isn’t the guy, you move on to the next guy. 

Ok but the controversy will still be here until the guy if found. 

How about this:

Wentz, Ertz and our 2nd rounder to the Bears 

1st and 2nd rounders this year, a 2nd next year and CB Jaylon Johnson coming back to the Eagles 

With our first I trade back to 9-12 for an additional 2nd. I almost don't care who is there at 6. I would be tempted with Sewell to stay put but I can't see him sliding to 6. If he was there and selected, I'm moving him inside to G. He would be our version of Nelson with more versatility. I want a top 3 O-line again. Isaac and Herbigs detract from  that becoming a reality. 

1 minute ago, RLC said:

Didn't see that, sorry.

There's McNabb (Kolb in 2007, McNabb would have been 30 I think), Rodgers (Brohm in 2008), Alex Smith (Kaepernick).

If we're included RD1 picks, there's Brees (Rivers).

And with the exception of Rodgers, what was the outcome?   All shipped out within 2 years.   

 

In other words, that move signaled that the team was moving on.  So, why should he want to stay?  

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

You're missing the point, ALMOST ALL GMS HAVE THE SAME AUTHORITY AS HOWIE.

Name all the HCs with veto power over personnel decisions. Belichick, Carroll and who else?

And all those GMs have accountability from the ownership group when they screw up... 

 

 

 

all except the Howie.  

10 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Name any real franchise QB that has had to?  Just find me one.

rodgers played great after the packers took love in the 1st round 2020

8 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

Last season? In the NFC East? Of course I did. So did most.

Not exactly a high bar.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And with the exception of Rodgers, what was the outcome?   All shipped out within 2 years.   

Smith took his team to an NFCCG the following year.
McNabb took his team to an NFCCG the year after.
Rodgers took his team to the SB.

Some guys step up, some guys break down.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Not exactly a high bar.

No, but the question was whether I expected the Eagles to make the playoffs last year. Of course, one has to consider the circumstances, in this case a weak division, before answering.

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And with the exception of Rodgers, what was the outcome?   All shipped out within 2 years.   

 

In other words, that move signaled that the team was moving on.  So, why should he want to stay?  

And all those GMs have accountability from the ownership group when they screw up... 

 

 

 

all except the Howie.  

The Roger situation isn’t as simple as people are making it. Aaron Rodgers when they did that had not started a game in three years in the NFL because of Brett Favre. They were going into year 4 where they had no clue what Aaron Rodgers actually was and he fell like a rock in that draft after expecting to go top 3 so they took a chance with him. They didn’t know if they were going to move forward with Aaron Rodgers because he never started a game and had a year left on his rookie contract if you include the 5th year option. So they backed themselves up because they didn’t have any information about rodgers as a nfl starter and it was year 4 and his contract about to come up 

Just now, RLC said:

Smith took his team to an NFCCG the following year.
McNabb took his team to an NFCCG the year after.
Rodgers took his team to the SB.

Some guys step up, some guys break down.

Well... if you remember 2008, McNabb was more going along for the ride... and was benched that season at one point.  

But, there was more talent on all of those teams on the offensive side of the ball than this team at the time these moves were made.  

2 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

No, but the question was whether I expected the Eagles to make the playoffs last year. Of course, one has to consider the circumstances, in this case a weak division, before answering.

I agree.   But they made the playoffs the year before more by default than by achievement.  But, these silly people thought they'd accomplished something by doing it.   

Moving forward, I think the NFC East will be much improved... and there won't be a 9 win team winning the division any time soon.

On 2/6/2021 at 12:03 AM, NCiggles said:

I pretty much agree that Hurts isn't the answer.  I am also concerned that Wentz is questionable.  He has all of the potential to be great again but he played terribly this past season.  He has some persistent issues with accuracy and turnovers that worsened this season. While he's proven that he can lead a team to a Super Bowl, it's not like he's been a top 10 QB on a consistent basis. I would rather they rehabilitate him but if he wants out and the team can get significant compensation for him.  They wouldn't be foolish to move on from him despite the cap hit. 

I also think that if they are picking in the top 10, then they should pick a QB.  I would prefer that they take a prospect like Zach Wilson or Fields if available at 6.  However, there is an argument to be made that Hurts may turn into a franchise QB.  I do think he has the potential to be a Kirk Cousins or Dak Prescott type QB. So, give him a season to figure out before just picking another QB.  Use this season to replenish talent on a weak roster.  Target a QB in 2022 or 2023.  

I just don’t see the SIGNIFICANT COMPENSATION and I see $50 mil cap hit plus we used the 2nd pick in the draft on him. This trade would happen then because CW is forcing it but I don’t see how he can, he has a contract so end of story. You’re the lawyer you tell me ? Lowie should just tell him give it a year with the new staff and next year if you or us decides a change is needed we will try our best to accommodate whoever. Next year the hit is a more palpable $25 mil and I expect him to perform much better

2 hours ago, austinfan said:

Hyperbole much?  One losing season after a SB and two playoff runs is an "organization in tatters?" Guess you don't follow the NFL. Outside of four franchises, Sea, NE, GB and PIT (and maybe KC going forward if AR doesn't implode over his kid), every franchise has had its ups and downs the last two decades, the bad ones have had mostly "downs", the good ones have shorter rebuilding periods and pop back up (Balt for example missed the playoffs 4 of 5 seasons after their SB).

Howie has rebuilt this team after 2012 and 2015, so he's got a better track record than probably 2/3s of the "football player" GMs that have been hired the last decade. See how many franchises are in their 2nd or 3rd rebuild with maybe 1 or 2 PO appearances in the last decade to show for it. When you have a proven track record, you've earned patience.

Get up off of your knees!   This rebuild is because of his mismanagement and poor drafting.  Rebuilding your own mess doesn't get patience.

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Name any real franchise QB that has had to?  Just find me one.

Aaron Rodgers didn't have a problem performing when the Packers picked Jordan Love in the 1st round.

Tom Brady didn't have a problem performing when the Patriots picked Jimmy Garoppalo in the 2nd round.

Brett Favre didn't have a problem performing when the Packers picked Aaron Rodgers in the 1st round.

Drew Brees didn't have a problem performing when the Chargers picked Philip Rivers in the 1st round.

Joe Montana didn't have a problem performing when the Niners traded a 2nd and a 4th rounder for Steve Young.

Alex Smith didn't have a problem performing when the Chiefs picked Patrick Mahomes in the 1st round.

Peyton Manning didn't have a problem performing when the Broncos picked Brock Osweiler in the 2nd round.

Alex Smith didn't have a problem performing when the Niners picked Colin Kaepernick in the 2nd round.

Etc etc etc.

For you and your buddies to pin Carson's atrocious play on the pick of Jalen Hurts to be a backup QB in the 2nd round is pathetic.

2 minutes ago, Arsenal79 said:

Aaron Rodgers didn't have a problem performing when the Packers picked Jordan Love in the 1st round.

Tom Brady didn't have a problem performing when the Patriots picked Jimmy Garoppalo in the 2nd round.

Brett Favre didn't have a problem performing when the Packers picked Aaron Rodgers in the 1st round.

Drew Brees didn't have a problem performing when the Chargers picked Philip Rivers in the 1st round.

Joe Montana didn't have a problem performing when the Niners traded a 2nd and a 4th rounder for Steve Young.

Alex Smith didn't have a problem performing when the Chiefs picked Patrick Mahomes in the 1st round.

Peyton Manning didn't have a problem performing when the Broncos picked Brock Osweiler in the 2nd round.

Alex Smith didn't have a problem performing when the Niners picked Colin Kaepernick in the 2nd round.

Etc etc etc.

For you and your buddies to pin Carson's atrocious play on the pick of Jalen Hurts to be a backup QB in the 2nd round is pathetic.

I pointed this out a month ago. Yeah his first two years after they drafted rodgers were not good. 

2005: 4-12 with 20 tds and 29 ints

2006: 8-8 with 18 tds and 18 ints

wasnt until year three he finally got back to being what he had done for years. 

 

16 minutes ago, jwill2420 said:

Ok but the controversy will still be here until the guy if found. 

Sure, there might be lingering controversy, but bringing Foles back is dumping gasoline on the fire. It’s arguably a worse decision than just keeping Wentz and Hurts. 

Hurts will be nothing more than a backup in the league because once you take his legs away he is screwed. Howie is invested because he blew another 2nd round pick, but I have no idea how Lurie doesn't see that. If they want to rip things down and start over that's fine, but toss Hurts too before his value sinks even more. 

51 minutes ago, Sturm said:

Carson just doesn't have that "it" factor. I will NEVER deny his talent level he has the tools. Just has no swagger nor is he a born team leader. Foles and we see now with Hurts they have it. Carson talent is better than both those players but Carson is awful when it comes to being a leader of men. The dude is soft.

Don't give me this 2017 TD after hurting himself. Plenty PLENTY of players get hurt and keep playing. Carson is Mentally soft. Dude can't handle any competition and is now crying wanting out instead of going into training camp and FIGHTING for his job like he should!

Carson believes he should be handed the damn keys.

Can you elaborate on the "it” factor, beyond completing 52% of passes?

1 minute ago, Diehardfan said:

Hurts will be nothing more than a backup in the league because once you take his legs away he is screwed. Howie is invested because he blew another 2nd round pick, but I have no idea how Lurie doesn't see that. If they want to rip things down and start over that's fine, but toss Hurts too before his value sinks even more. 

Why not just see what he can do this year use the two 1’s for blue chips and then draft a QB next year if he sucks? Odds are we are picking top 10 again next year as well. 

13 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Missed the point by about a mile.   But, that's ok.  

 

Rather than trying to actually put quality players on the field with Carson, they looked to bring in a player that either would take his job... or would put him at WR for a handful of snaps a game.   Either way, its not 'putting your players in the best position to make plays'.   It's just symbolic of the hubris of this organization that they are smarter than everyone else.  

Like bringing in Desean as 'the answer' to the WR problem, and overpaying him to do it, when no other team was even in the bidding.  Tampa would have cut him, and the Eagles could have picked him up cheaper... or they could have traded for him and kept him on the deal he had, which would have allowed flexibility at the end of last season when he proved what everyone knew... that injuries were coming.  

Or, putting huge money at DT, when the real money goes to the DE position.   Or... so many others...

The Hurts pick wasn't the root of this... it was the icing on the cake.  The final straw that broke the camel's back, if you will.   

Unless Greg Ward being the most prolific WR on this team over the last 20 games is somehow 'good enough' by anyone's standard?

They did TRY. In 2016 they put together a very good offense line by keeping peters and trading for Brandon brooks. In 2017 they Signed the best wide receiver available in Alshon Jeffery. Also drafted Guys like Dallas Godert Andre Dillard Mike Sanders Jalen Reagor. Now if you want to say they failed in the draft fine but they did try. 

What are the cap implications of Wentz is traded soon? How much will he go against the cap in 2021 (if at all?). I’m no salary cap guru.

1 hour ago, Desertbirds said:

It has suddenly come to me. Afan is...

 

 

 

...Howie's father.

...LOWIE

FYP

14 minutes ago, Arsenal79 said:

Aaron Rodgers didn't have a problem performing when the Packers picked Jordan Love in the 1st round.

Tom Brady didn't have a problem performing when the Patriots picked Jimmy Garoppalo in the 2nd round.

Brett Favre didn't have a problem performing when the Packers picked Aaron Rodgers in the 1st round.

Drew Brees didn't have a problem performing when the Chargers picked Philip Rivers in the 1st round.

Joe Montana didn't have a problem performing when the Niners traded a 2nd and a 4th rounder for Steve Young.

Alex Smith didn't have a problem performing when the Chiefs picked Patrick Mahomes in the 1st round.

Peyton Manning didn't have a problem performing when the Broncos picked Brock Osweiler in the 2nd round.

Alex Smith didn't have a problem performing when the Niners picked Colin Kaepernick in the 2nd round.

Etc etc etc.

For you and your buddies to pin Carson's atrocious play on the pick of Jalen Hurts to be a backup QB in the 2nd round is pathetic.

Your point is well made - I would agree with you if that is all Carson had to deal with. In fact I'm sure that if Jalen Hurts in the 2nd was the only adversity and he fell apart there wouldn't be a single Eagles fan defending him. However, none of those QB's were working with their 3rd and 4th string offensive line by the time they were benched. None of those QB's had to witness one of their replacement offensive lineman get thrown back onto the bench on one play and then stand around fixing his gloves while the QB is running for his life on another. Same Olineman actually sacked Carson. None of those QBs went for several games needing to call their WRs by number because they hadn't been introduced yet.

Carson Wentz has his own issues - he's not blameless. But all the turmoil just exacerbated the few issues he has. Then throw in the Eagles 2nd round pick - Any QB in this situation would be thinking he could have used some help with that 2nd pick instead of an insurance policy.

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Sure, there might be lingering controversy, but bringing Foles back is dumping gasoline on the fire. It’s arguably a worse decision than just keeping Wentz and Hurts. 

As a back up I don’t think so. Now if he was the starter maybe but no way he get the call over Hurts. 

6 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Hurts will be nothing more than a backup in the league because once you take his legs away he is screwed. Howie is invested because he blew another 2nd round pick, but I have no idea how Lurie doesn't see that. If they want to rip things down and start over that's fine, but toss Hurts too before his value sinks even more. 

100% agree, but sinks even more?  What is his value?   I'd guess a 3rd or later.  He hasn't shown anything to change his draft grade.

5 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Can you elaborate on the "it” factor, beyond completing 52% of passes?

not a leader of men

no swagger

mentally soft

those 3 alone are enough for me. we all saw it everytime foles and hurts came in to replace him. Team just worked better.

can we talk about after the 2017 season he was just 15-21 (i think) as the starter? That is not your elite QB

he is trending in all the wrong directions sense that 2017 season where a backup win him a ring.