3 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

I get not liking the Hurts pick, but IMO it's dumb to trade/dump him already.  You don't draft him as a finished product.  You draft him as a hyper athletic and relatively (to the rest of the QB draft class last year) young QB who showed steady improvement as a passer in college.  Will it work out?  Probably not.  But at this point you might as well see what you have instead of pulling the plug for a 4th round pick or whatever you could get for him.  I think it's silly to make too many judgements on a QB this early in their career.  

But he’s not hyper athletic.  Lamar Jackson is hyper athletic.  You could argue Kyler Murray is hyper athletic.  Hurts isn’t close to those guys 

4 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Wilson is a pass first QB who can run.  Hurts is not that.  I am willing to give him this year, because this will clearly be a rebuild and the record may be ugly.  However, I'll bet this discussion isn't happening next year.  

Wilson would have been a 1st round pick if he was 2 inches taller.  Hurts is 2 inches taller but I just don't think he has nearly the arm that Wilson has.  

1 minute ago, Nivraga said:

Ideal Woman

SOB you did it! 

7 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Wilson is a pass first QB who can run.  Hurts is not that.  I am willing to give him this year, because this will clearly be a rebuild and the record may be ugly.  However, I'll bet this discussion isn't happening next year.  

Oh i didn’t say i agreed with the analysts but it’s trendy thing to compare to Wilson now that’s why Warner basically said it. I don’t think they are remotely close. If we are being honest i actually think the better comp for hurts is a better version of Seneca Wallace 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Oh i didn’t say i agreed with the analysts but that’s why Warner basically said it. I don’t think they are remotely close. If we are being honest i actually think the better comp for hurts is a better version of Seneca Wallace 

I think the Eagles hoped Hurts could be a poor man’s Desean Watson.  Watson also had detractors coming out of college that his arm wasn’t strong enough and he defaulted to taking off and running too quickly.  Watson had a great college career; better than Lawrence in the same program at Clemson.  He’d have gone #1 if not for doubts about his pocket passing.

4 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Wilson would have been a 1st round pick if he was 2 inches taller.  Hurts is 2 inches taller but I just don't think he has nearly the arm that Wilson has.  

He doesn't have the accuracy and never has.  His game is one read and take off.  He is Taysom Hill.  His arm has never developed (maybe it can now).  Remember, his whole college career was with premium talent and coaching around him and that covered up a ton for his issues.  That's not the case here.

Again,  maybe this staff can take him up.  I sure hope the best for him, because the team wins that way.  I just don't see it.

Just now, Alphagrand said:

But he’s not hyper athletic.  Lamar Jackson is hyper athletic.  You could argue Kyler Murray is hyper athletic.  Hurts isn’t close to those guys 

He is less athletic than probably the most athletic QB  in the NFL since Michael Vick yes.  

As far as Murray he's not as fast no, but he also has 3 inches and 20 pounds on him so it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

And no I'm not trying to argue he's on those guys level as a QB.

If Howie plays his cards right, he can get a coup of quality picks this year and next, between trading Wentz, current player(s) and trading back with the first(s) round picks. 

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Oh i didn’t say i agreed with the analysts but it’s trendy thing to compare to Wilson now that’s why Warner basically said it. I don’t think they are remotely close. If we are being honest i actually think the better comp for hurts is a better version of Seneca Wallace 

or Tyrod Taylor.  or RG3.   

 

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

But he’s not hyper athletic.  Lamar Jackson is hyper athletic.  You could argue Kyler Murray is hyper athletic.  Hurts isn’t close to those guys 

I mean how close was McNabb to Vick? I think that's the comparison.  McNabb was never going to run like Vick but he certainly had enough to make plays running.  

Just now, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

or Tyrod Taylor.  or RG3.   

 

Tyrod Taylor might be a good comparison; at least Hurts is more stout and likely more durable than RG3.

1 minute ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

He doesn't have the accuracy and never has.  His game is one read and take off.  He is Taysom Hill.  His arm has never developed (maybe it can now).  Remember, his whole college career was with premium talent and coaching around him and that covered up a ton for his issues.  That's not the case here.

Again,  maybe this staff can take him up.  I sure hope the best for him, because the team wins that way.  I just don't see it.

Well, Hurts has the right coaching staff, I think when he was at Alabama they were in flux in terms of the offense they wanted to run, then at Oklahoma, that's a pure college offense.

Like most college QBs these days, he needs a couple years to learn how to play out of the pocket (learn the basics, then add wrinkles like the RPO, not the other way around).

Just like the wildcat and the spread, as the RPO proliferates DCs will get better at countering it. I think one reason for Foles' success was he was unique, few DCs had seen a QB who could pass consistently out of the RPO so they didn't know how to game plan for it.

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

I mean how close was McNabb to Vick? I think that's the comparison.  McNabb was never going to run like Vick but he certainly had enough to make plays running.  

I think McNabb’s best talent was combining strength and elusiveness; he had a lot of highlight reel scrambles in his first few seasons 

8 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I think the Eagles hoped Hurts could be a poor man’s Desean Watson.  Watson also had detractors coming out of college that his arm wasn’t strong enough and he defaulted to taking off and running too quickly.  Watson had a great college career; better than Lawrence in the same program at Clemson.  He’d have gone #1 if not for doubts about his pocket passing.

I don’t know what the comp was that the Eagles had I just know based off how they talked about him and how they got to making that pick that they believe he can be a starting quarterback in this league. And I firmly believe that they had a plan in their mind where they had a backup plan to wentz. I don’t have any proof of it but based on how they were talking about him and where they selected him I don’t think it was strictly we need a good cheap back up quarterback. I think they use that as a spin like they usually do because they knew a lot of people would buy it based off Carson Wentz his injury past, coming off that concussion and not having a lot of cap space spend on a back up quarterback.

I loved watson coming out. I think people kept nitpicking at everything he did that last year at Clemson. If he was able to leave after his sophomore year he would’ve been a top three pick. But since he had to go back to Clemson and really probably was trying to avoid getting injured and it look like that entire team was just going through the motions at times during that season (like they knew they were good and bored with the competition they faced) it wound up hurting his stock.  To me I thought it was ridiculous trubisky went ahead of him and Mahomes. I did predict that Mahomes will be the second quarterback taken in that draft but I thought for sure somebody would take watson before Mahomes and Trubisky would fall

23 minutes ago, Arsenal79 said:

If they keep him he's on the cap in 2021 for $34M.  If they trade him away before his roster bonus in early March, he counts $33M of dead cap in 2021.  So we save $1M in cap this year by trading him away.  Plus we save an additional $95M over the next 3 years (2022-2024) by getting rid of him now.

So no chance they restructure to reduce the dead cap or the team getting him takes on some of it?

7 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

I get not liking the Hurts pick, but IMO it's dumb to trade/dump him already.  You don't draft him as a finished product.  You draft him as a hyper athletic and relatively (to the rest of the QB draft class last year) young QB who showed steady improvement as a passer in college.  Will it work out?  Probably not.  But at this point you might as well see what you have instead of pulling the plug for a 4th round pick or whatever you could get for him.  I think it's silly to make too many judgements on a QB this early in their career.  

I agree, he was the first true freshman starter for Alabama in forever, then he gets benched at halftime in the National Championship for Tua and sees him get drafted 5th overall.  Hurts has a lot to prove, if Wentz is gone, and the Eagles don’t draft a QB this year, give the kid a shot, at least you know you’re gonna get everything’s he has talent wise.  If they stink next year the Eagles get another high pick in the draft. 

9 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

or Tyrod Taylor.  or RG3.   

 

Feel like Rg3 was built differently. I think Seneca Wallace’s body type is actually more similar to hurts than RG3. And i don’t think they are super close. But more close than RG3 Plus i think wallace had a lot of the same pros, wallace and hurts have nearly the same 40 and cons with his accuracy and arm. I’d say tyrod but  hurts ran a 4.59 and Taylor is at 4.77. In terms of actual body type i think a young mcnabb like 2000-2002 is pretty similar however mcnabb had a way better arm and just more talent 

6 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

If Howie plays his cards right, he can get a coup of quality picks this year and next, between trading Wentz, current player(s) and trading back with the first(s) round picks. 

The only thing Howie can play is Lurie. 

4 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I mean how close was McNabb to Vick? I think that's the comparison.  McNabb was never going to run like Vick but he certainly had enough to make plays running.  

Hurts is a very good runner, doesn't have the speed of a Jackson or Vick, but he's built like a power back and runs like a top power back, elusive with power and good body control.

He's not going to break off a lot of 40 yard runs but he'll run for a lot of 1st downs. And that build fares well for durability if you don't try to run him 170 times a year.

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

Well, Hurts has the right coaching staff, I think when he was at Alabama they were in flux in terms of the offense they wanted to run, then at Oklahoma, that's a pure college offense.

Like most college QBs these days, he needs a couple years to learn how to play out of the pocket (learn the basics, then add wrinkles like the RPO, not the other way around).

Just like the wildcat and the spread, as the RPO proliferates DCs will get better at countering it. I think one reason for Foles' success was he was unique, few DCs had seen a QB who could pass consistently out of the RPO so they didn't know how to game plan for it.

Listen, he has premier coaching at those stops - the best coaching in the country.  OU keeps punching out 1st round QBs.   Still, Jalen's arm never caught up to his legs.  His brain says "run" quickly and off he goes and has for years  That never really changed in 4 years and it was the game he played in his 4 game tryout (that was cutoff in the 2nd half every time).  His best hope is that there is some major paradigm shift away from a pocket passer in this league.  Then we have to hope that he doesn't get killed running the ball, which he will.

I hope this staff can make something out of him.  They likely have this year to do it.  

 

3 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

He doesn't have the accuracy and never has.  His game is one read and take off.  He is Taysom Hill.  His arm has never developed (maybe it can now).  Remember, his whole college career was with premium talent and coaching around him and that covered up a ton for his issues.  That's not the case here.

Again,  maybe this staff can take him up.  I sure hope the best for him, because the team wins that way.  I just don't see it.

I don't think Taysom Hill passed for near as many yards as Hurts did in college.  Hurts was also making more downfield throws at Alabama and Oklahoma.  He was a much better passer in Oklahoma.  He had over a 70% completion percentage.  He was moving the ball through the air primarily in college although he ran a bunch as a senior at Oklahoma.  Lincoln Riley has also coached 2 other 1st rounders at the position in the last 5 seasons.  Both of whom have come into the NFL, started and done well.  I think it's not correct to say college left Hurts unprepared and underdeveloped.  I do think it leaves open the question of how much can he improve.  Could he be accurate if the offense is tailored to his strengths and his reads are limited? I think that's what will need to happen.  

 

 

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Hurts is a very good runner, doesn't have the speed of a Jackson or Vick, but he's built like a power back and runs like a top power back, elusive with power and good body control.

He's not going to break off a lot of 40 yard runs but he'll run for a lot of 1st downs. And that build fares well for durability if you don't try to run him 170 times a year.

I think he's actually faster than McNabb.  I agree he seems to have better body control.  

13 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I mean how close was McNabb to Vick? I think that's the comparison.  McNabb was never going to run like Vick but he certainly had enough to make plays running.  

I think Vick could have been a hall of fame player if he had actually learned the game when he started out. He didn't study the game until he came to us and it was pretty much too late

3 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I think he's actually faster than McNabb.  I agree he seems to have better body control.  

The comp i like is mcnabb body when he came out of Syracuse with skill set similar to Seneca Wallace’s in the nfl