44 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

Other side of the coin:  taking back guys who can play may be better than allowing Howie to make more picks 

Yeah, except Cohen, Foles would be terrible. Cohen isn't that good, is expensive and coming of an ACL. That's just absurd. Doyle? Yeah, that's not moving any needles.

I would be fine with the CB and LB from the Colts. But the bears have a very good young  CB in Jaylon Johnson only on year two of his rookie deal. Why can't Howie get promising and good young players like that? Not Cohen and third TE types that are completely maxed out with what they can do on the field and not even cheap. 

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You missed is point by cutting off the rest of that sentence.  He didn't say they could, he said it wouldn't matter if they did because Howie sucks at drafting.

The misunderstanding come with "you can" vs "you could", he used "you can".

"You can" tends to mean that someone is able to do something that they probably thought they wouldn't be able to. 

"You could" means that although it is technically possible to do something, you aren't likely to.

11 hours ago, RLC said:

Saw this offer and not sure I like it more than that of Chicago. 

This guy is the equivelant of Gaylord Focker. If you followed NBA free agency youd have seen what an incredible amount of crap he threw against the wall. And none of it stuck. Recently, after the 6ers/Lakers game, Fosh tweeted that a couple 6ers met LeBron and a couple lakers in the parking lot after the game, and Furkan Korkmaz socked LeBron in the jaw. 

You can completely disregard all of his tweets.

42 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

i have some advice for you as well, probably should lay off the meth. Also another bit of advice, you can use a period and start a new sentence. 

Takes to long for periods, yours still come once a month?

Just now, greendestiny27 said:

Yeah, except Cohen, Foles would be terrible. Cohen isn't that good, is expensive and coming of an ACL. That's just absurd. Doyle? Yeah, that's not moving any needles.

I would be fine with the CB and LB from the Colts. But the bears have a very good young  CB in Jaylon Johnson only on year two of his rookie deal. Why can't Howie get promising and good young players like that? Not Cohen and third TE types that are completely maxed out with what they can do on the field and not even cheap. 

I agree in principle.   Eagles are trying to unload what is now perceived as a reclamation project that is going g to cost almost 50 million.  Teams will try to unload their dead weight.  We will see where this shakes out.

going to be a shuffle of contracts between teams plus picks. No one is going to come out of this a true winner.

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

The fact that Pederson had his mind made up almost immediately after getting fired that he didn’t want to coach in 2021 makes me wonder how much he really wanted to coach in 2020. There were times during the season it seemed either his heart wasn’t totally in it or he seemed a little burned out. I still think the one thing he truly loves about the job is calling plays. I wonder if he’ll ever be a head coach again.

I think the reason Lowie overrode Pederson was simple, Pederson simply didn't want to put the work in to rebuild his staff and just go with the guys he had, when this approach became dysfunctional, they stepped in. They should have just fired him a year ago but the combination of the SB and their long history with Pederson held them back. Pederson would probably be happier as an OC where he just focuses on running the offense and doesn't have to deal with all the other aspects of the HC job. His ideal situation is probably OC for a defensive HC where he'd be given autonomy over the offense.

I have a different take on it.  When Lowie embarrassed and emasculated Pederson, demanding he fire his OC after he publicly said he was coming back, making him the only coach in the league (and prob only SB winning coach in history) to not be given authority over his own staff, his desire to succeed within his current framework probably took a hit.  He probably thought very seriously about quitting.  

Similar deal when Lowie made the worst 2nd round pick in history from a logic standpoint in selecting Hurts.  Wentz navigated various challenges, finished the year strong with a horrible supporting cast... and then was completely and publicly undermined.  I said at the time this signals the end of Wentz in PHL and the beginning of the Hurts era.  Indefensible decision making all around.  Now we will see and enjoy the costs of their "leadership” and decisions.

29 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Remember all the complaints about keeping Howie over the "real" football men he supposedly forced out of the organization.

Of all those names, Banner, Riddick, Grigson, etc., the only one who has been successful elsewhere was Veach, and he was a top scout who went with Andy to KC, there's was never a hint that he was "forced out," rather, typical lateral move to work with someone who offers a better opportunity. Grigson was the only one who got a GM job, and he was fired after four years, one good draft, three subpar drafts, one good trade, one awful trade - and he has yet to be hired by another team. The rest ended up in media jobs.

The organization is so dysfunctional that Douglas had to settle for a GM job after 3 years with the Eagles. Ruined his reputation. Yet Andy Weidl stayed with the Eagles rather than follow his mentor.

So a lot of rumors about Howie may just be sour grapes by guys who were dismissed for the simple reason they weren't that good.

Rather than judge who was here and did what elsewhere, I think a better measure is how the Eagles personnel group has done V’s the rest of the league.

Since 2017, that answer is "worst in the league” with the only argument being the Jets.  This is the worst drafting team in the NFL with multiple blown and indefensible draft decisions.  

You have to ask yourself, did Lowie ever do anything wrong?  Or is all of this nearly universal criticism, based on results and outcomes, misplaced?

1 hour ago, DeathByEagle said:

I think people are over thinking this. "If" they trade Wentz, i think it will be Hurts job. If they plan to bring in any other QB that could be a possible starter then your going to have to trade Hurts as well to avoid all the same issues/drama we have now with 2 QBs on the team that could start. I just don;t see it happening. I think they will role with Hurts. As Lurie said this is a process that they feel will be a few years down the line. 

Lets be honest if Hurts is not that good we will be right back in the top 10 next year with the possibility in landing a QB in a better prospect draft. 

I say this as a Hurts detractor myself, but if you trade Wentz, you have to roll with Hurts through next season so you can get a sense of what you have and what you need at the QB position. 
 

drafting him was stupid but we’d be compounding g the stupidity not to see what we have before muddying the waters  again right after clearing them out. 
 

I expect we’d be in a good position to draft a QB next year too anyway...

1 hour ago, RLC said:

There isn't a single GM in the league who would give 3 1sts for Wentz given his injury history and 2020 performance.

 

1 hour ago, EagleVA said:

I know there are a lot of stupid GMs out there but I cant believe they're that stupid, oh wait, Howie is a GM right?

 

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You missed is point by cutting off the rest of that sentence.  He didn't say they could, he said it wouldn't matter if they did because Howie sucks at drafting.

Correct and thank you... I thought the hypothetical was obvious.

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Seems you missed his point as well, see above.

I went through in the rest of my initial post In some detail what I had said was the possible return for Wentz months ago.  Unfortunately it probably doesn’t matter what they get, since they didn’t make any changes to the decision makers.

45 minutes ago, olsilverhair said:

Takes to long for periods, yours still come once a month?

So you defy the rules of English grammar and revert to sexist insults. Congrats on both of your accomplishments in life. 

7 minutes ago, purplefiggy said:

I say this as a Hurts detractor myself, but if you trade Wentz, you have to roll with Hurts through next season so you can get a sense of what you have and what you need at the QB position. 
 

drafting him was stupid but we’d be compounding g the stupidity not to see what we have before muddying the waters  again right after clearing them out. 
 

I expect we’d be in a good position to draft a QB next year too anyway...

If you see a guy at 6 that you confidently project to be a franchise guy, you pull the trigger. You don’t allow Hurts to stop that. 

1 hour ago, RLC said:

I disagree with the premise. Howie maximizing the return improves the likelihood of success. Some will argue this point, but what's more valuable: getting more picks but having an ok draft-selector or less picks with a good draft-selector. Probability says the former is important. Given the dislike of Howie, people will prefer the latter.

Those are the only two possibilities?   I don't think so.   But, if we were to play out this little scenario, I'd say that fewer picks with a better draft selector would likely result in at minimum the same overall outcome, and at maximum still far better outcome.

Imagine a better draft selector last year... would it have been better to come away with: Jalen Reagor, Jalen Hurts and Davion Taylor or...
Justin Jefferson only?  

Back in 2019... Would it have been better to come away with Andre Dillard, Miles Sanders, JJAW and Clayton Thorson
or just Sanders and either Metcalf/McLaurin and Darius Slayton?

Incidentally, Eagles traded away an extra 4th and 6th round pick to get Dillard... so they ended up with less impact AND fewer picks.

 

 

But... more picks with Howie selecting or fewer picks with someone else picking are not the only options. 

What about more picks and someone else picking?   Howie isn't the only GM able to make trades.  And frankly, outside of 2017, his trades haven't been that good.  A few others have hit decently, but most of them have been downright terrible.

 

Howie made this mess... letting Howie clean it up is like giving a shopaholic a new CC to max out and expecting them to use it to properly get out of debt.

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

Look at the staff Pederson didn't put together, and what he proposed to Lowie as his staff. What does that tell you?

Compare that with the staff that Sirianni put together in a week, with only a couple holdovers. That's a pretty blatant contrast.

Schwartz couldn't figure out how to use Douglas (started 11 games in Car) or Jones (started 6 games in JAX) but started Jacquet. Sendejo started 14 games for Cleveland. Darby was a top CB in Washington. Fort was let go last season and started 8 games for Baltimore last year and this year. Gerry started at LB until an injury forced him to use Singleton. Meanwhile he's got Maddox playing outside instead of the slot.

There's a lot of spin here... but I'll just call out the one glaring one.. Fort.  Fort was a 3-4 LB when he was signed... was asked to play in a 4-3, and didn't acclimate well to it.  He went back to a 3-4 team and had success.  This would be another case of Howie getting a square peg to fit the round roster hole.

 

We need an OUTSIDE WR... so Howie trades away a 3rd round pick for yet another slot WR.  

We need a deep speed guy who can stay on the field after striking out with Mike Wallace?   Desean Jackson is the answer?   And pay him too much... bonus.

 

 

Then there's the classic... just flat out misses.  Need an Alshon clone?  JJAW... 

10 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

If you see a guy at 6 that you confidently project to be a franchise guy, you pull the trigger. You don’t allow Hurts to stop that. 

The biggest potential worry is the eagles convincing themselves one is when they don’t actually believe it and just want the fancy new toy at QB. 

I am of the opinion that the eagles love Hurts and believe he can be a franchise QB in time. I think their plan was always hurts needed a year or two of grooming to become that. 

11 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

If you see a guy at 6 that you confidently project to be a franchise guy, you pull the trigger. You don’t allow Hurts to stop that. 

Agree, at which point you dump him for what you can get.

11 hours ago, austinfan said:

But they don't want his opinion about which QBs they should trade/obtain? Sure. Howie's a crazed egomaniac isolated in his office, yelling about who took the strawberries.

I see that you are finally coming around.

If I'm the Eagles I take Zac Wilson all day long if he is there at 6, said it before say it again ,he ends up best qb from this draft. 

I like Mac Jones too, but not at 6

16 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

If you see a guy at 6 that you confidently project to be a franchise guy, you pull the trigger. You don’t allow Hurts to stop that. 

I see both sides of this for sure.  I’d agree the Eagles should draft a QB at #6 if they evaluate one to be a franchise QB, but I don’t think Howie has the stones to stand at a podium and say "yes, we drafted a backup at #53 — next question, please”

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

There's a lot of spin here... but I'll just call out the one glaring one.. Fort.  Fort was a 3-4 LB when he was signed... was asked to play in a 4-3, and didn't acclimate well to it.  He went back to a 3-4 team and had success.  This would be another case of Howie getting a square peg to fit the round roster hole.

 

We need an OUTSIDE WR... so Howie trades away a 3rd round pick for yet another slot WR.  

We need a deep speed guy who can stay on the field after striking out with Mike Wallace?   Desean Jackson is the answer?   And pay him too much... bonus.

 

 

Then there's the classic... just flat out misses.  Need an Alshon clone?  JJAW... 

Choosing Tate over just paying a higher price for Anderson actually caused a bunch of other events to be put in motion. The tate trade would've made more sense if they did that move 5 years prior not where Tate was at that particular point in time of his career. Every Lions beat reporter stated he was a slot receiver and when you watched the Lions they had Jones and Golladay on the outside. so he was a slot receiver when you had Agholor in the slot cause he just was incapable of playing the outside consistently for the Eagles. Add on we were running 12 personnel the most or close to the most in the entire league. 

The eagles would’ve been better off just paying the price of a 2nd round pick (rumored value) to get Robbie Anderson who they would’ve had for 1.5 seasons. Additionally it prevents you from making the DeSean move and redoing his contract. On top of that if you extended him then last year’s draft they could’ve just taken Justin Jefferson. They didn’t have to be looking to add a speed receiver and just find the best WR instead of trying to find the speed threat fit. 

17 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Those are the only two possibilities?   I don't think so.   But, if we were to play out this little scenario, I'd say that fewer picks with a better draft selector would likely result in at minimum the same overall outcome, and at maximum still far better outcome.

What about more picks and someone else picking?   Howie isn't the only GM able to make trades.  And frankly, outside of 2017, his trades haven't been that good.  A few others have hit decently, but most of them have been downright terrible.

How many GMs are available who are good at the cap, drafting, free agency, managing a team, etc. are there?

I'm out on Howie and willing to gamble, but there's a lot of people who refuse to see that it could get much worse too.

Most GMs have cap gurus to handle the cap

 

43 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

The misunderstanding come with "you can" vs "you could", he used "you can".

"You can" tends to mean that someone is able to do something that they probably thought they wouldn't be able to. 

"You could" means that although it is technically possible to do something, you aren't likely to.

Nah.  You cut off the end of the sentence that indicated it was a hypothetical.  

Just now, RLC said:

How many GMs are available who are good at the cap, drafting, free agency, managing a team, etc. are there?

I'm out on Howie and willing to gamble, but there's a lot of people who refuse to see that it could get much worse too.

I mean where we stand now how much worse can it get being 60ish million over the cap and less than half of our first and second round picks over the last 3 years living up to where they were drafted? By the time the season starts, there’s a chance 14 of the last 36 players drafted since 2016 (there’s chance pryor, Gerry, mills, Barnett and JJAW are all gone— currently sits at 19) are on the eagles roster. I’d argue they only have 4 of them as top half of the league at their position starters. 

2 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Just to be clear, while you’ve defended Howie at every turn, you’re working theory now is that Doug didn’t want to put in work and Schwartz mailed it in last year?

It must be exhausting to continually defend your offspring when said offspring continually F-ups.

9 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Choosing Tate over just paying a higher price for Anderson actually caused a bunch of other events to be put in motion. 

Yup.  Afan wants to defend the moves as individual pieces, but each mistake has compounded the last and that's how compound interest works.