6 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Avg QBs can win SBs with a good team and coaching around them. There has been plenty of examples of that happening. If your in the situation to land a top QB go for it. If not and only a project is avail, Ill pass and build the good overall team. 

"Plenty" of examples is a stretch.  It's not unprecedented but it's also not common.  Past 30 years I'd say there are 7 non-elite QBs to win a superbowl (Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, Johnson, Manning, Flacco, and Foles).  I'd argue even most of those guys played at a very high level during those playoff stretches, even if they aren't elite QBs overall.

For a rebuilding team, give me a project over a mediocre QB any day.  

2 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Choosing Tate over just paying a higher price for Anderson actually caused a bunch of other events to be put in motion. The tate trade would've made more sense if they did that move 5 years prior not where Tate was at that particular point in time of his career. Every Lions beat reporter stated he was a slot receiver and when you watched the Lions they had Jones and Golladay on the outside. so he was a slot receiver when you had Agholor in the slot cause he just was incapable of playing the outside consistently for the Eagles. Add on we were running 12 personnel the most or close to the most in the entire league. 

The eagles would’ve been better off just paying the price of a 2nd round pick (rumored value) to get Robbie Anderson who they would’ve had for 1.5 seasons. Additionally it prevents you from making the DeSean move and redoing his contract. On top of that if you extended him then last year’s draft they could’ve just taken Justin Jefferson. They didn’t have to be looking to add a speed receiver and just find the best WR instead of trying to find the speed threat fit. 

Or they could have put Tate in the slot and Agholor outside.

13 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

When was the last time an average QB won? Foles? Before that? Flacco?

You could go back even further than that. Go back to 2000. The only quarterbacks I would say that weren’t franchise caliber quarterbacks to win the Super Bowl were Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Flacco and Nick Foles. That means you have a less than a 20% chance as this super bowl is being won by mahomes or brady. So if your plan is will just be really good I just have solid quarterback play you probably aren’t winning a Super Bowl. It happens once every five years and you better have a hell of a team to do it

1 hour ago, Wentz_Era said:

What team would give up a third?  Wentz has past performance to garner return.  Hurts has nothing, he was worse than Wentz was last season.  He had NFL level coaching at Bama and got benched for his inability to play QB.  Then he barely beat out someone after transferring.

If I was a team close to a title I’d give up a 3rd for a high end backup on a cheap contract. 
 

Does everyone have to be so black and white. Everyone who responds to my thoughts on Hurts thinks he’s the worst QB ever or is good enough to lead a team to a Super Bowl. 

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Or they could have put Tate in the slot and Agholor outside.

You are right they could’ve except Nelson Agholor had proven multiple times with the Philadelphia Eagles he was not consistent enough on the outside and struggled on the outside with the Eagles. He went to Vegas and had success on the outside but he didn’t have that type of success on the outside in Philadelphia because he was a mental case every time they tried it in Philadelphia. They had one good year where he played majority slot  and 2 where he failed on the outside. And half a season in 2018 where he wasn’t good enough/failing 

 

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

If a qb has deadly accuracy, they can have an all pro ceiling without great athleticism or off the charts arm strength.  

With the right receivers and coach sure.

Random off topic note...I miss the camera flashes on the opening superbowl kickoff lol

1 hour ago, Green_Guinness said:

 IMO, had we had an actual football guy in charge who could see that Doug wasn't playing to Wentz's strengths and that we needed better personnel that we wouldn't have drafted a QB at #53.  A rational GM with actual knowledge of the game would have talked with Doug and told him what he's doing isn't working and they need to work together to hire an OC that will develop/run an O similar to what Reich did to help get things back on track.

Or maybe they did and Doug balked at a real OC, which would explain why they "emasculated him."

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

Or maybe they did and Doug balked at a real OC, which would explain why they "emasculated him."

What does "real OC” mean?

6 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

When was the last time an average QB won? Foles? Before that? Flacco?

Eli Manning twice, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, and yes Flacco and Foles in the last 20 years. 

The only top 10 QB to win the SB in the last 20 years has been Mahomes, Big Ben and the Manning brothers(*** Eli was a avg QB though and not a great QB)

8 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

"Plenty" of examples is a stretch.  It's not unprecedented but it's also not common.  Past 30 years I'd say there are 7 non-elite QBs to win a superbowl (Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, Johnson, Manning, Flacco, and Foles).  I'd argue even most of those guys played at a very high level during those playoff stretches, even if they aren't elite QBs overall.

For a rebuilding team, give me a project over a mediocre QB any day.  

More examples of avg Qbs winning the SB then top 10 drafted QBs winning in the last 20-30 years. 

2 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Eli Manning twice, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, and yes Flacco and Foles in the last 20 years. 

The only top 10 QB to win the SB in the last 20 years has been Mahomes, Big Ben and the Manning brothers(*** Eli was a avg QB though and not a great QB)

In today’s NFL, good luck winning because of all-time great defenses like Baltimore and Tampa did. 

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Or maybe they did and Doug balked at a real OC, which would explain why they "emasculated him."

 They had already emasculated him the previous season when he announced he was bringing back his O staff then had to fire some of them.  That might have something to do with him balking at future moves they wanted him to do.

 

57 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

And there is the business/marketing side of it for lurie and the eagles 

Maybe you haven't noticed, but the Eagles have a long waiting list for tickets.

I doubt Lowie give a damn about optics and marketing. They want to win, they made the mistake of overcommitting to a repeat of 2017, they learned, they're moving on.

In retrospect, the Eagles Super Bowl might have been the most improbable ever.

They lost their MVP QB in December, it wasn't like they lost him in September where they had an entire season to adjust. A mediocre veteran came in and took his place, not some young up and comer, and not even a savvy backup who's won before. And he came in and played great. He wasn't carried by the defense. Oh, and they beat the previous years NFC SB team, the #1 defense in the NFL, and the dynastic Patriots.

In the modern era of football the Eagles won a SB with a backup QB who stinks and has stunk since he left, but he somehow played amazingly great when we needed him most. You never see that. That just doesn't happen in the NFL.

Not to mention all the other key injuries we had.

And honestly, the sports gods have been making us pay for it since. It was so improbable, to even out our luck, we were given 10 years of awful luck to balance out the universe.

1 minute ago, Green_Guinness said:

 They had already emasculated him the previous season when he announced he was bringing back his O staff then had to fire some of them.  That might have something to do with him balking at future moves they wanted him to do.

 

Not to mention they wanted him to fire Reich after 2016. 

Peyton is a HOFer but played like crap in the playoffs. Broncos defense won the SB. Defenses have been screwed by the new rules though. I don't think you can win a SB without a top QB anymore

11 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

You could go back even further than that. Go back to 2000. The only quarterbacks I would say that weren’t franchise caliber quarterbacks to win the Super Bowl were Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Flacco and Nick Foles. That means you have a less than a 20% chance as this super bowl is being won by mahomes or brady. So if your plan is will just be really good I just have solid quarterback play you probably aren’t winning a Super Bowl. It happens once every five years and you better have a hell of a team to do it

You have a very low standard for "franchise QB."  Eli Manning isn't a franchise QB in my book, I don't even consider him a top ten QB for most of his career. Brady doesn't win 6 rings without a GREAT defense most years. It helps to have an elite QB, it helps to have elite talent.

 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

In today’s NFL, good luck winning because of all-time great defenses like Baltimore and Tampa did. 

Never said a thing about all time great defenses. Said Good all around teams. Its just proven you have a better chance winning it all with a good all around team with a avg/good QB then a Qb drafted in the top 10. Eventhough you could add in that list Seattle and Denver even the Giants twice for recent teams that had great defenses that helped big time to win the SB. 

11 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Maybe you haven't noticed, but the Eagles have a long waiting list for tickets.

I doubt Lowie give a damn about optics and marketing. They want to win, they made the mistake of overcommitting to a repeat of 2017, they learned, they're moving on.

Maybe if you haven’t noticed they know they’re going into a rebuild, casual fans are going to be likely checking out and not show up to those games when they stink. that’s what generally happens when your team is not very good. How I know you’re delusional enough to think they’re going out there next year and being good. When there’s empty seats in those games (if we’re allowed back in) maybe you’ll notice they don’t want those optics. that is a poor reflection on them. so Business was having foles go out there people will still wanna show up because he’s a Super Bowl hero to them

 

 

8 minutes ago, austinfan said:

You have a very low standard for "franchise QB."  Eli Manning isn't a franchise QB in my book, I don't even consider him a top ten QB for most of his career. Brady doesn't win 6 rings without a GREAT defense most years. It helps to have an elite QB, it helps to have elite talent.

 

Says the guy who has stated mahomes is unproven. I suggest not running your mouth about franchise QBs after making comments such as that. Yup Eli Manning might get into the pro football hall of fame that guy is clearly brad Johnson, Flacco, foles and dilfer level.  Yes you also have to have good teams to win. No one argued that. However when you usually face good teams with franchise level QBs you tend to also need a franchise level QB cause most of the time you don’t come out on top. 

14 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

You are right they could’ve except Nelson Agholor had proven multiple times with the Philadelphia Eagles he was not consistent enough on the outside and struggled on the outside with the Eagles. He went to Vegas and had success on the outside but he didn’t have that type of success on the outside in Philadelphia because he was a mental case every time they tried it in Philadelphia. They had one good year where he played majority slot  and 2 where he failed on the outside. And half a season in 2018 where he wasn’t good enough/failing

So you're saying the coaching under Doug sucked? Because what young WR did they develop in his five years?

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

So you're saying the coaching under Doug sucked? Because what young WR did they develop in his five years?

Or Nelson Agholor before even Doug got here was a mental case. Yes it must be Doug‘s fault that Nelson agholor in 2017 looks great. But all the other years he was a mental case and couldn’t line up properly.  And Doug also sucked along with howie. What a novel concept both of them suck. I know with spindaro land howie Roseman doesn’t do anything wrong

6 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

More examples of avg Qbs winning the SB then top 10 drafted QBs winning in the last 20-30 years. 

That's not true.  Mahomes, Manning, Manning, Brees, Roethlisberger, Dilfer, Elway, Aikman, Young were all early first round draft picks.  

7 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Maybe if you haven’t noticed they know they’re going into a rebuild, casual fans are going to be likely checking out and not show up to those games when they stink. that’s what generally happens when your team is not very good. How I know you’re delusional enough to think they’re going out there next year and being good. When there’s empty seats in those games (if we’re allowed back in) maybe you’ll notice they don’t want those optics. that is a poor reflection on them. so Business was having fools go out there people will still wanna show up because he’s a Super Bowl hero to them

Says the guy who has stated mahomes is unproven. I suggest not running your mouth. 

Ah, the infamous internet "punk."  What are you, 17?

Mahomes has started 3 seasons, let him start 3 more then I'll call him elite, durability does matter.

Eli was a mediocre QB who had two virtues, Burress and durability. Otherwise he was carried by the Giant defense his entire career.

Never had a QB rating > 100, QBR > 70 once, > 60 4 times, career 366-244 TD/Int, Y/A 7.0, QB rating 84.0.

Top half, sure, top ten, only his best seasons. 5 of 14 years.

3 hours ago, John_C said:

I went through in the rest of my initial post In some detail what I had said was the possible return for Wentz months ago.  Unfortunately it probably doesn’t matter what they get, since they didn’t make any changes to the decision makers.

If it's a typical Howie draft you're right, it won't matter, I mean we've gotten very little production from his 1st round selections, let's hope he doesn't screw up this draft.