5 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Peyton is a HOFer but played like crap in the playoffs. Broncos defense won the SB. Defenses have been screwed by the new rules though. I don't think you can win a SB without a top QB anymore

Even when he won with Indy they played the Bears with Grossman as the QB.  The Colts D and RBs won that SB for them, not Peyton.  He would tear it up in the regular season then outside of those 2 playoff seasons he would play average or worse.  Had a chance to drive for the tying TD vs NO and instead coughed up a pick-6.

Eli caught lightning in a bottle twice.  Each time he got a big assist from his D, big help from an amazing fingertip catch off a helmet by a WR who never caught another pass in the NFL, help from a dropped game clinching INT (say hi, Asante SamuelS) and while otherwise being a mediocre QB he did get hot for 3-4 games at just the right time in each instance.  Luckiest QB to ever play the game. 

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

Ah, the infamous internet "punk."  What are you, 17?

Mahomes has started 3 seasons, let him start 3 more then I'll call him elite, durability does matter.

Eli was a mediocre QB who had two virtues, Burress and durability. Otherwise he was carried by the Giant defense his entire career.

Never had a QB rating > 100, QBR > 70 once, > 60 4 times, career 366-244 TD/Int, Y/A 7.0, QB rating 84.0.

Top half, sure, top ten, only his best seasons. 4 of 14 years.

Eli Manning had great timing. He was an average to above average starter who went on a couple of heaters. Flacco was the same. 

But stop with the Mahomes isn’t elite or proven. That’s foolish. 

I’ve heard people say the Eagles won’t announce a trade during SB Sunday. And that may or may not be true, but that doesn’t mean the Eagles are just gonna take a day off from discussing trades with teams. And if they agree to a deal verbally today, then you know Schefter is gonna get it.

Unless everyone mutually agrees to sit on anything for an entire day, I would not be surprised if trade news did break today.

The NFL world doesn’t stop just because the super bowl is being played,

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Maybe if you haven’t noticed they know they’re going into a rebuild, casual fans are going to be likely checking out and not show up to those games when they stink. that’s what generally happens when your team is not very good. How I know you’re delusional enough to think they’re going out there next year and being good. When there’s empty seats in those games (if we’re allowed back in) maybe you’ll notice they don’t want those optics. that is a poor reflection on them. so Business was having fools go out there people will still wanna show up because he’s a Super Bowl hero to them

Says the guy who has stated mahomes is unproven. I suggest not running your mouth. 

Listen Punk, are you even from Philly? Because anyone who has watched the Eagles over the decades know that season ticket holders aren't "casual" fans.

And if they don't show up, they'll sell their tickets to fans dying to see games.

Real Eagle fans have seen numerous rebuilds until Andy showed up.

11 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

That's not true.  Mahomes, Manning, Manning, Brees, Roethlisberger, Dilfer, Elway, Aikman, Young were all early first round draft picks.  

Early to me is top 10. Brees was a 2nd round pick, Steve Young was picked in the NFL Supplemental draft and picked to play in the USFL first so they are off your list., Big Ben was the 11th pick. He was close enough so I counted him.

Me personally Id rather keep it by era as I mentioned. Big difference between this era and 30 years ago with the cap. 20 is more realistic. So that really takes Aikman and Elway off. List is a lot smaller then you think of QBs drafted in the top 10 in this era of football and cap. 

22 minutes ago, St0nedsk8er said:

Random off topic note...I miss the camera flashes on the opening superbowl kickoff lol

I do too.

13 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Ah, the infamous internet "punk."  What are you, 17?

Mahomes has started 3 seasons, let him start 3 more then I'll call him elite, durability does matter.

Eli was a mediocre QB who had two virtues, Burress and durability. Otherwise he was carried by the Giant defense his entire career.

Never had a QB rating > 100, QBR > 70 once, > 60 4 times, career 366-244 TD/Int, Y/A 7.0, QB rating 84.0.

Top half, sure, top ten, only his best seasons. 5 of 14 years.

I see i finally struct a nerve with you howie... i mean Dave.  

Ok howie. Whatever you want to say to justify your point. Mahomes won an MVP, won a SB and is 27-1 in his last 28 games. Even if he gets hurt doesn’t mean he’s not proven. He’s proven to play at an elite level in the NFL. Your justification if he gets hurt and it’s not the same player does that mean he hasn’t already proven how great he is. Your reasoning makes no sense as his performance on the field has shown he’s proven to be a elite player for 3 consecutive seasons. You don’t win an MVP and a Super Bowl MVP in back to back years and they get to another Super Bowl and tell me oh yeah he’s not proven to be elite. If Dee Ford doesn’t jump offsides he’s the first player in NFL history in his first three years to start to make it to a Super Bowl. However I guess that means he’s just so unproven

again where did I say Eli Manning was a elite. However lumping him with Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer is laughable.

13 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Not to mention they wanted him to fire Reich after 2016. 

To be that impatient after 1 regular season is stupid, but with Lurie and Howie I guess it makes sense.  Now they love Reich.   

30 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Listen Punk, are you even from Philly? Because anyone who has watched the Eagles over the decades know that season ticket holders aren't "casual" fans.

And if they don't show up, they'll sell their tickets to fans dying to see games.

Real Eagle fans have seen numerous rebuilds until Andy showed up.

Yes I’m from Philly. Dave I hate to break it to you but when they’ve been bad like a 2012 the fans didn’t show up. They stop going to games as they completely fell off. I know because I was at one of them and they had maybe half capacity by the end of the first quarter. The end of the chip Kelly era when they were bad they stopped going go to games. They really showed up in droves after the bucs and lions beat downs. But then again Dave spindaro doing his best work to cover up the fact that happened. We are not in the 90s or the 80s anymore where they just automatically show up. They find better things to do like watching football on TV on Sunday ticket or the red zone channel where they could pay attention to their fantasy team instead of being at a bad game. I know because I went to a game at the end of the chip Kelley era and the end of the reid era. Both times later in the season and their work plenty of empty seats

also some information for you we’re in a pandemic. So if the NFL has not been making as much money as it has in past years and The Eagles didn’t make as much as they could have, what is a good way to make more sales and money? Oh yeah bringing back a Super Bowl MVP and Nick Foles. Riiight that had no barring on this. That couldnt help the eagles business wise especially when they aren’t going to be good  

But hey keep spinning it Dave. That’s what you do best. 

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Eli Manning had great timing. He was an average to above average starter who went on a couple of heaters. Flacco was the same. 

But stop with the Mahomes isn’t elite or proven. That’s foolish. 

His level of play is elite, but we've seen guys burn out early due to injury or other reasons.

What makes Brees, Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, et al special is doing it over a long career.

Mahomes is only a single Dee Ford lining up offsides away from three straight Super Bowl berths. Sounds elite and proven to me. 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

Mahomes is only a single Dee Ford lining up offsides away from three straight Super Bowl berths. Sounds elite and proven to me. 

Legitimately if the Ford stays onside he’s the first quarterback in the history of the NFL to make it to three consecutive Super Bowls in his first three seasons as a starter. Clearly that means he’s unproven because he could get hurt down the road. So his mvp, super bowl mvp and if he wins tonight likely another super mvp means he’s unproven. I really wish the Eagles get an unproven quarterback like that then

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

His level of play is elite, but we've seen guys burn out early due to injury or other reasons.

What makes Brees, Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, et al special is doing it over a long career.

So Mahomes isn’t elite but his level of play is elite?

You’re twisting yourself into a pretzel here. He’s elite. He’s proven. What he does for the rest of his career will determine where he ranks amongst the greatest QBs ever.

 

1 minute ago, DeathByEagle said:

Early to me is top 10. Bees was a 2nd round pick, Steve Young was picked in the Supplemental draft, Big Ben was the 11th pick. He was close enough so I counted him.

Me personally Id rather keep it by era as I mentioned. Big difference between this era and 30 years ago with the cap. 20 is more realistic. So that really takes Aikman and Elway off. 

Young would have been the first overall but he elected to go to the USFL instead.  He absolutely counts.

The "era you mentioned" was 20-30 years. But if you only want to do back 20 then Hostetler and Rypien fall off the list of "meh" QBs who have won it all.

Only want to go back 10 you lose Manning, Johnson and Dilfer as well.

Regardless of what timefrom you want to look at teams with elite QBs win much more frequently than those without.  

 

Hope I'm wrong but I got 24-20 KC

If you have to wait for a dude who go to like 8 playoffs to declare him elite, that says more about your lack of deductive reasoning and talent evaluation than anything else.

If everyone waited until every player achieved a laundry list of achievements to make declarations about them, discussing sports would be boring.

"Justin Herbert is gonna be the next elite QB in the NFL”

”Let’s just wait and see him do it first”

😴😴 boring

Reid gets #2 pretty easily this time. 

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I see i finally struct a nerve with you howie... i mean Dave.  

Ok howie. Whatever you want to say to justify your point. Mahomes won an MVP, won a SB and is 27-1 in his last 28 games. Even if he gets hurt doesn’t mean he’s not proven. He’s proven to play at an elite level in the NFL. Your justification if he gets hurt and it’s not the same player does that mean he hasn’t already proven how great he is. Your reasoning makes no such as his performance on the field has shown he’s proving to be a elite player. You don’t win an MVP in a Super Bowl MVP in back to back years and they get to another Super Bowl and tell me oh yeah he’s not proven to be elite. 

again where did I say Eli Manning was a leak. However lumping him with Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer is laughable.

Trent Dilfer: QBR, 60.1, 64.8, 82.8, 74.0, 75.8, 76.0 injuries were his problem, and playing on bad TB teams, when he went to Balt he was 7-1 and 4-0 in the playoffs, the same level of play that he showed in TB, but a much better team.

Brad Johnson was before QBR, but career 82.5 rating, similar to Eli. 8-5 in Minn in 1997, took Wash to the playoffs in 1999, TB in 2002.

Both were limited QBs who won in the playoffs because they were smart veterans surrounded by good talent.

Problem for most limited QBs is they tend to end up on bad teams, like Fitzpatrick, where their flaws are exposed.

 

 

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

Trent Dilfer: QBR, 60.1, 64.8, 82.8, 74.0, 75.8, 76.0 injuries were his problem, and playing on bad TB teams, when he went to Balt he was 7-1 and 4-0 in the playoffs, the same level of play that he showed in TB, but a much better team.

Brad Johnson was before QBR, but career 82.5 rating, similar to Eli. 8-5 in Minn in 1997, took Wash to the playoffs in 1999, TB in 2002.

Both were limited QBs who won in the playoffs because they were smart veterans surrounded by good talent.

Problem for most limited QBs is they tend to end up on bad teams, like Fitzpatrick, where their flaws are exposed.

 

 

They won because they played on teams with some of the best defense ever

1 minute ago, Sack that QB said:

If you have to wait for a dude who go to like 8 playoffs to declare him elite, that says more about your lack of deductive reasoning and talent evaluation than anything else.

If everyone waited until every player achieved a laundry list of achievements to make declarations about them, discussing sports would be boring.

"Justin Herbert is gonna be the next elite QB in the NFL”

”Let’s just wait and see him do it first”

😴😴 boring

There's a huge luck factor, Mahomes came into a perfect situation, an established team with veteran talent, much like Rodgers in GB.

Wonder what his career trajectory would have been if the Jets drafted him?

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

Trent Dilfer: QBR, 60.1, 64.8, 82.8, 74.0, 75.8, 76.0 injuries were his problem, and playing on bad TB teams, when he went to Balt he was 7-1 and 4-0 in the playoffs, the same level of play that he showed in TB, but a much better team.

Brad Johnson was before QBR, but career 82.5 rating, similar to Eli. 8-5 in Minn in 1997, took Wash to the playoffs in 1999, TB in 2002.

Both were limited QBs who won in the playoffs because they were smart veterans surrounded by good talent.

Problem for most limited QBs is they tend to end up on bad teams, like Fitzpatrick, where their flaws are exposed.

 

 

Dilfer? He got propped up by an all-time great defense. He had 12 TDs and 11 interceptions. He was a bum. 

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Nah.  You cut off the end of the sentence that indicated it was a hypothetical.  

An "If" would have worked also.

Anyhow, I read the end of the sentence but and chose to focus on the beginning of the sentence, the Eagles aren't getting 3 #1s for Wentz.

As long as the Eagles don' t send any draft picks to the trading partner everybody wins.

1 minute ago, DEagle7 said:

Young would have been the first overall but he elected to go to the USFL instead.  He absolutely counts.

The "era you mentioned" was 20-30 years. But if you only want to do back 20 then Hostetler and Rypien fall off the list of "meh" QBs who have won it all.

Only want to go back 10 you lose Manning, Johnson and Dilfer as well.

Regardless of what timefrom you want to look at teams with elite QBs win much more frequently than those without.  

 

Context.  Back 20-30 years ago and even just 10 years ago the way the game was played is different than it is now.  Further back you go the easier it was to win with a strong/dominant D as the rules allowed the D to take control of a game.  Today, the rules favour the O, especially the skill positions, so it's going to be much harder to win a SB with a great D and a meh QB than it was years ago.

 

Just now, austinfan said:

There's a huge luck factor, Mahomes came into a perfect situation, an established team with veteran talent, much like Rodgers in GB.

Wonder what his career trajectory would have been if the Jets drafted him?

You can say that about any QB though. You can only judge them on what they've accomplished and how they perform. When you watch him play do you not see some of the most impressive talents and skills you've ever seen?

He has a rocket for an arm. He's accurate. He's mobile. His improvisational skills are among the best I've ever seen. He plays well in the clutch. What doesn't he do well? I can't name a single thing he doesn't at least do well above average if not great.

Just now, Sack that QB said:

You can say that about any QB though. You can only judge them on what they've accomplished and how they perform. When you watch him play do you not see some of the most impressive talents and skills you've ever seen?

He has a rocket for an arm. He's accurate. He's mobile. His improvisational skills are among the best I've ever seen. He plays well in the clutch. What doesn't he do well? I can't name a single thing he doesn't at least do well above average if not great.

He sucks at QB sneaks.