7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The drafting has sucked.  End of story.

The coaching/development has also sucked.  It's not one or the other.

On TOP of that, the bridge connecting the personnel decisions with the development just might be the biggest problem of all.  Investments in players that do not fit the scheme, players the coaches never even bother to dress or use, etc. etc.  

The thing that irritates me with the Eagles coaching and front office is they want Guys that fit their system. It shouldn’t be just draft guys that fit their system. You should adapt your system to fit the best most talented player so you can have success with that particular player. You have to be flexible. It’s what the great teams in this league are able to do. They adjust. The eagles took reagor cause he fit their offense the best meanwhile they still didn’t maximize his strengths and adjust to him. So they should’ve taken jefferson and adjusted to his strengths as he was the more talented player leading up to the draft. 

I see a lot of people saying they want to draft Chase or Smith at 6, but I feel like this team has way more important needs than WR.

7 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

We have no idea if he will be in the league for he next four years. In a decimated secondary, that relied heavily on practice squad players, he hardly saw the field.

Again i wouldn’t label him a bust as a fourth rounder even if he played here just two years and then was cut. Typical nfl 4th rounders only plays 2 years in the league on average. Again fourth round pick I look at your trying to build up depth and get back ups/special teamer’s. Was he not that when he played? 

1 minute ago, goeagles5039 said:

I see a lot of people saying they want to draft Chase or Smith at 6, but I feel like this team has way more important needs than WR.

Well, we can't draft a GM or HC.

1 minute ago, Desertbirds said:

Well, we can't draft a GM or HC.

I would say O line and corner are more important. And maybe Safety.

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Again i wouldn’t label him a bust as a fourth rounder even if he played here just two years and then was cut. Typical nfl 4th rounders only plays 2 years in the league on average. Again fourth round pick I look at your trying to build up and get back ups/special teamer’s. Was he not that when he played? 

Again, I did not label him a Bust. I labeled him as Bust potential, meaning that I am worried he might turn out to be a Bust.

4 minutes ago, RLC said:

Give Leonard a blank check.

I would love for them to look at Leonard. But, if these candidates do their homework and see how the Eagles don't address LB very well and the state of the Eagles' secondary (basically Howie's fingerprints on control), I think many will choose not to interview.

22 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Theres actually proof of Jalen being in shocked he was getting pulled. 

It's funny, we dont trust Doug, think he's an idiot, and most of him want him gone, yet we believe him when it comes to this trainwreck of week 17 lol 

He was probably shocked because of the timing.  He came out of the half starting...which wasn't the plan all week.  More than likely Doug wanted to see if he could get his ish together.  He couldn't, so Doug benched him and went along with the plan.  Hurts is a young QB who could use the reps, but he wasn't improving his play and was hurting the team.

2 minutes ago, goeagles5039 said:

I see a lot of people saying they want to draft Chase or Smith at 6, but I feel like this team has way more important needs than WR.

I want them to draft either a WR, CB, OL, or DL with the 6th pick. Just make sure it's a blue chip player. If it's Chase/Smith and they become a bonafide #1 WR for the next 8-10 years, just get it done. If it's Surtain/Horn, as long as they become a top end CB, I'm fine with that. We need stud players, at so many positions. Just get it right. 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The thing that irritates me with the Eagles coaching and front office is they want Crys it fit their system. It shouldn’t be just draft guys that fit your system. You should adapt your system to fit the best most talented player so you can have success with that particular player. You have to be flexible. It’s what the great teams in this league are able to do. They adjust. The eagles took reagor cause he fit their offense the best meanwhile they still didn’t maximize his strengths and adjust to him. So they should’ve taken jefferson and adjusted to his strengths as he was the more talented player leading up to the draft. 

I do think there's a fine line between adjusting to the strengths of your players and tolerating players that aren't good enough.  Midseason, you adjust to what you've got.  Long-term, you do want to seek out fits.

I don't know that I can call Reagor a fit for their system, mostly because I have no idea what their system is.  To me, Eagle and Doug offense means an overuse of 12 personnel with an almost entirely horizontal passing offense that targets WRs and RBs in the flats laterally and TE's along the seam in the middle of the field...with light use of the running game.

That has been their offense for 3 years.  Label it what you want.  If you do something without changing it for 3 years, you are either insane or it's by design, or both. 

I'm not sure who you want as a fit for that.

Just now, Desertbirds said:

Again, I did not label him a Bust. I labeled him as Bust potential, meaning that I am worried he might turn out to be a Bust.

Again that goes back to my question how is your bust if he’s just a back up for a couple of seasons? That is what you’re looking for in round 4 to 7. If you’re going into round 4 expecting to find a starter you’re going to be disappointed because that doesn’t happen as often as you find backup players who make up quality depth. 

thorson and shareef Miller are busts of 4-7 rounders. One didn’t even make it through training camp and the other never made it onto the active roster. Wallace is likely back next year even if it’s a backup role  which in rounds 4-7 is really what you should expect and hope he can develop into a starter. If he doesn’t that doesn’t mean he’s a bust. It means he became what normally happens in those rounds  

 

11 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The drafting has sucked.  End of story.

The coaching/development has also sucked.  It's not one or the other.

On TOP of that, the bridge connecting the personnel decisions with the development just might be the biggest problem of all.  Investments in players that do not fit the scheme, players the coaches never even bother to dress or use, etc. etc.  

How does Lurie not see all of the problems?

3 minutes ago, goeagles5039 said:

I would say O line and corner are more important. And maybe Safety.

What Oline will be available at 6 and worth the pick? Sewell isn't going to be there

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I do think there's a fine line between adjusting to the strengths of your players and tolerating players that aren't good enough.  Midseason, you adjust to what you've got.  Long-term, you do want to seek out fits.

I don't know that I can call Reagor a fit for their system, mostly because I have no idea what their system is.  To me, Eagle and Doug offense means an overuse of 12 personnel with an almost entirely horizontal passing offense that targets WRs and RBs in the flats laterally and TE's along the seam in the middle of the field...with light use of the running game.

That has been their offense for 3 years.  Label it what you want.  If you do something without changing it for 3 years, you are either insane or it's by design, or both. 

I'm not sure who you want as a fit for that.

I only made the point about fit as if you go back and look at the press conference after they drafted reagor that was the point they were making about taking him over Jefferson and other wide receivers at 21.

i’ve said this multiple times the outlier season for the Philadelphia Eagles is 2017. The four other years of this offense has looked largely the same besides 12 personnel increase that change after 2016 and 2017. But the offense for large portions of the season has been bottom half of the league in 4 of the 5 years doug has been the HC. That’s not a coincidence. At some point in time you have to realize that maybe 2017 they caught lightning in a bottle and that’s not the norm. Now people can say some of it is on wentz which it likely also is someone wentz. However this offense is constructed by doug it hasn’t been successful in adjustments even when Jalen hurts went out there because you saw it in the second half of games they either couldn’t move the ball or they had hallow yards that ended with little or no points. 

For the record, I was way wrong on Jefferson, but I also pathologically stick to my guns.  (I think Jefferson never matches his rookie year production again).

I never said that Jefferson would be a bust.  I admitted, pre-draft, that WRs in his mold and with his skill set have gone to the HOF.  Maybe he could too.  But every draft prospect has a downside.  His downside was a lack of explosive or stand-out traits relegating him to the slot.  

That is the consistent red flag that every Eagles wr draft pick for decades seems to have (with the notable exception of our WR draft picks who didn't suck).  And it NEVER works for us.  They always end up as sluggish underneath slot WRs for us.  I would have bashed my head into the wall if they did it again.

Well, that didn't happen to Jefferson.  He's a stud.  I still maintain that it's a lot harder to predict that a Jefferson-like talent will produce in the way that Jefferson has.  

And I think there are a lot of Jefferson parallels to Chase and Smith.  After the year Jefferson had, that's sure to boost their stock.  But I'm a stubborn SOB.  I'm not hopping on the bandwagon now.  For the same reason I didn't want Jefferson, I don't like the value of those guys.

8 minutes ago, goeagles5039 said:

I see a lot of people saying they want to draft Chase or Smith at 6, but I feel like this team has way more important needs than WR.

It’s worrisome to me that they might be going into their third straight draft investing high draft capital into receiver. They busted out with JJAW and Reagor seems to be injury prone and hasn’t passed the eye test so far. I get that it’s still a need, but how many times can you neglect other positions of need? 
 

With Schwartz gone now, I’d like to see what a high prospect CB paired with Slay like Surtain or a linebacker like Parsons can do. Whoever the next DC is will most likely prioritize linebacker more than Schwartz did by default. And I think we’ll see a bump in CB play as well since the CBs seemed to always struggle under Schwartz outside of 2017. 
 

I’m just getting tired of them flopping on these receiver picks. Yes, they’ll most likely have their pick of choice between Chase and Smith at 6 unless someone jumps them, but I don’t think this offense really knows how to utilize receivers. Doug isn’t going anywhere and neither is his offensive philosophy. If they’re still going to run this 12 personnel sluggish offense, I’m not sure what drafting a receiver at 6 does for you with that. 

29 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

Hurts (Backup)

Sanders (oft injured, regressed as a pass catcher)

Reagor (not that encouraging so far)

 Fulgham (JAG)

 Watkins (potential, but a long way to go)

 Hightower (JAG potential)

 JJAW (Bust)

 Herbig (potential, good backup)

 Driscoll (potential, good backup)

 Dillard (Bust potential)

 Hargrave (expensive luxury item)

 WIlliams (JAG)

 Singleton (JAG)

Edwards (JAG)

 Bradley (JAG potential)

Taylor (Bust)

 Wallace (Bust potential)

 Epps (JAG).

I thought Wallace and Taylor have been OK on STs.  I also think Wallace has played OK at times.  Taylor looks like Matt McCoy and I don't see how he can be a starting OLB given his play.  

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

For the record, I was way wrong on Jefferson, but I also pathologically stick to my guns.  (I think Jefferson never matches his rookie year production again).

I never said that Jefferson would be a bust.  I admitted, pre-draft, that WRs in his mold and with his skill set have gone to the HOF.  Maybe he could too.  But every draft prospect has a downside.  His downside was a lack of explosive or stand-out traits relegating him to the slot.  

That is the consistent red flag that every Eagles wr draft pick for decades seems to have (with the notable exception of our WR draft picks who didn't suck).  And it NEVER works for us.  They always end up as sluggish underneath slot WRs for us.  I would have bashed my head into the wall if they did it again.

Well, that didn't happen to Jefferson.  He's a stud.  I still maintain that it's a lot harder to predict that a Jefferson-like talent will produce in the way that Jefferson has.  

And I think there are a lot of Jefferson parallels to Chase and Smith.  After the year Jefferson had, that's sure to boost their stock.  But I'm a stubborn SOB.  I'm not hopping on the bandwagon now.  For the same reason I didn't want Jefferson, I don't like the value of those guys.

I was fine with them going either if they made the necessary scouting to think that Jefferson wasn’t going to be as good on the outside in the nfl as he was in the slot at lsu in his last season there. However I did say on the old board that you better not get it wrong if you choose somebody over Jefferson if Jefferson is available because if Jefferson pans out you’re gonna look like an idiot because you didn’t do proper scouting on a guy who was highly productive. 

I probably should’ve made it more clear on here when I went back and read my older post. I was OK if they wanted to draft Jalen Reagor. I didn’t hate the player and understood they wanted a burner. I know I had a long post about it the days leading up to the draft on the old board that if you’re sitting at 21 and Jefferson is still on the board but you aren’t high on him that you should use his value on how other teams feel about him to gain more draft capital. By that I mean there were other teams who were in love with Jefferson behind them so you could have used that 21st pick with jefferson there to trade back and collect more picks which would’ve been huge to the Eagles because they needed more youth infused into this roster.

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

This is akin to "and that's final".  Dude you're busted by a bunch of people, not just me.  And you don't have the ability to close the thread.  LOL, but keep digging your hole. 

He keeps using that phrase how he's not going to do the leg/lazy work for anyone else like he's a reporter or something and we should all take him at his word.  Fact is he's just a schmuck on a message board and if he read this on twitter like he claimed to then that means it was right there in front of him and all he had to do was right click the URL (or if he's on a mobile then just hold his finger/thumb down on it) and then copy/paste into his post.  But no, HE is too LAZY to do that and then tried to turn it around on the rest of the blog that we're all too lazy for not going on twitter or doing a search.  Like we should all be so appreciative for his little gem of info that we worked so hard to find and share with us.

I think there should be a rule that if you post something relating to info you've read/seen that you have to include the link.  Otherwise it's just hearsay.  Maybe first couple times you do it your post gets removed.  Third time you get a short suspension, etc.  Wonder how long it would take him to get banned for his staunch belief that he's doing us all a favour and we're all too lazy to appreciate it?

 

5 minutes ago, BDawk_ASamuel said:

It’s worrisome to me that they might be going into their third straight draft investing high draft capital into receiver. They busted out with JJAW and Reagor seems to be injury prone and hasn’t passed the eye test so far. I get that it’s still a need, but how many times can you neglect other positions of need? 
 

With Schwartz gone now, I’d like to see what a high prospect CB paired with Slay like Surtain or a linebacker like Parsons can do. Whoever the next DC is will most likely prioritize linebacker more than Schwartz did by default. And I think we’ll see a bump in CB play as well since the CBs seemed to always struggle under Schwartz outside of 2017. 
 

I’m just getting tired of them flopping on these receiver picks. Yes, they’ll most likely have their pick of choice between Chase and Smith at 6 unless someone jumps them, but I don’t think this offense really knows how to utilize receivers. Doug isn’t going anywhere and neither is his offensive philosophy. If they’re still going to run this 12 personnel sluggish offense, I’m not sure what drafting a receiver at 6 does for you with that. 

Personally, I know I'm a radical with unpopular opinions...but I think the NFL has a pretty clear and not-subtle edict out there that the way to win is with an elite "inevitable" scoring offense and an average, opportunistic defense.

We have the worst offense in the NFL.  Some rankings don't specifically say that, but I truly believe we do.  Certainly the worst passing efficiency.

A defense can go from bad to average (and I'm not even sure we aren't already there) in one year.

I just see no point in a top 10 pick going to the defensive side of the ball at any position.  We need a QB, we need multiple WRs, we need multiple OL.  We are losing our TE1 and our TE2 is very injury prone.  We have zero RB depth and our RB1 is injury prone.

Our offense is a total raging dumpster fire.  

Wallace is not a hill I'm willing to die on (to use a common Board metaphor). I do, however, reject Afan's claim (implicit or explicit) that Roseman has stocked the Eagles with all this young talent.

1 minute ago, Desertbirds said:

Wallace is not a hill I'm willing to die on (to use a common Board metaphor). I do, however, reject Afan's claim (implicit or explicit) that Roseman has stocked the Eagles with all this young talent.

100% agreement on that. That’s a Dave spadaro spin at its finest what he’s trying to pull 

9 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Personally, I know I'm a radical with unpopular opinions...but I think the NFL has a pretty clear and not-subtle edict out there that the way to win is with an elite "inevitable" scoring offense and an average, opportunistic defense.

We have the worst offense in the NFL.  Some rankings don't specifically say that, but I truly believe we do.  Certainly the worst passing efficiency.

A defense can go from bad to average (and I'm not even sure we aren't already there) in one year.

I just see no point in a top 10 pick going to the defensive side of the ball at any position.  We need a QB, we need multiple WRs, we need multiple OL.  We are losing our TE1 and our TE2 is very injury prone.  We have zero RB depth and our RB1 is injury prone.

Our offense is a total raging dumpster fire.  

First point I agree with entirely. That should be obvious to everyone that watches the really good teams in this league. They don’t have elite defenses. They have opportunistic defenses and their offenses all can put up 30 points regularly. 

Second point I somewhat agree. If there is a defensive tackle or defensive end  that is worthy of being top 10 then I make that pick.  However I think in a league where you’re going to give up passing yards unless the corner back is a generational corner that gets a bunch of interceptions that it is not the best use of resources to take a defensive player in the top 10. You are better off taking a OL, QB (de/DT thats worthy not the miami kid) and potentially generational WR in the top 10 and if there’s not one there worthy trade back get more picks. 

2 hours ago, Bacarty2 said:

damage control. nothing to see here. What did you expect Kelce to say?

doug's an idiot. everyone was in the dark. Doug's a terrible coach and because of it im probably going to retire. The real reason Carson wants to leave is because we have no offensive Identity. 

 

 

This is the same response many would have if Carson said the rumors aren't true.  Even when direct sources of players and coaches refute things, people don't believe it.  But they believe "unnamed sources" from national media who don't even live in the city.

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

First point I agree with entirely. That should be obvious to everyone that watches the really good teams in this league. They don’t have elite defenses. They have opportunistic defenses and their offenses all can put up 30 points regularly. 

Second point I somewhat agree. If there is a defensive tackle or defensive end  that is worthy of being top 10 then I make that pick.  However I think in a league where you’re going to give up passing yards unless the corner back is a generational corner that gets a bunch of interceptions that it is not the best use of resources to take a defensive player in the top 10. You are better off taking a OL, QB and potentially generational WR in the top 10 and if there’s not one there worthy trade back get more picks. 

The other issue I have with corner...now, more than ever, your secondary is only as strong as its weakest link.  Passing offenses are too advanced and they are getting too much help from officials.  What good does Slay do for you if your #2, #3 CBs and safeties are getting torched all game long?  And no team can afford to draft or pay Slay x2 while stocking the other positions adequately.  

(IMO) Slay/Maddox/NRC/Mills/Mcleod  are a lot worse than 3 solid CBs, Mcleod, and a Mills upgrade.  And if we invest #6 in a CB, by the time the offense is rebuilt, Slay is long gone.  So we'll just be back to one stud CB surrounded by trash with the net product of a helpless secondary.

The OL situation is interesting. I agree that there is an issue longer term, but I was impressed with Herbig at G this year, and obviously Mailata. On the assumption Kelce returns, we'd be looking at:

Dillard/Seumalo/Kelce/Brooks/Lane to start the year, with Mailata a swing T, and Herbig/Driscoll the guards. That's not so awful. The issue of course is injuries, and it is almost a guarantee that Brooks/Lane go down at some point. I think the expectation of having a back up, stud O line is not realistic. I think Mailata and Herbig/Driscoll could fill in for those inevitable injuries. If Dillard/Seumalo/Kelce go down as well, we're in big trouble, but I think almost any team that sustained that would be in big trouble. Combine all of this with the cap issue we face, and for better or worse, that's the nucleus of our O-line for next year. If they end up injured and ineffective, we're likely picking high next year and can grab a top rated o lineman then. 

I'd also like to see what exactly we have in Dillard. If he can be an above average pass blocker and average run blocker, then you can fully transition Mailata to RT to replace Lane. It makes drafting a tackle a bit less pressing. If Dillard just sucks and has no thirst for football, then at least we know, can plug Mailata in as a full time starter and find Lane's replacement next year. 

I think for this year, it makes far more sense to try and find guys later in the draft, specifically for centre, and focus more on upgrading other positions.