17 minutes ago, goeagles5039 said:

I see a lot of people saying they want to draft Chase or Smith at 6, but I feel like this team has way more important needs than WR.

Scoring 30 points consistently is pretty much a prerequisite to be a contending team in the NFL now.  The Eagles scored that many points zero times this season, meaning they are incapable offensively.  They’re not inconsistent, they’re incapable.

In 2021 they will have Reagor, Fulgham, Goedert, Hightower, Watkins to catch passes from whoever the QB will be.  No Jeffery, no DJax, and no JJAW means three open roster positions at WR.  There is clearly a need there.   Teams ideally draft BPA, but nobody should argue that NFL teams don’t view BPA through the lens of what the roster needs — they just do.

When you’re drafting #6 there shouldn’t be any player on your draft board that isn’t a consensus top 10 draft prospect.  I would argue the Eagles already have one too many "starting QBs”, but there are more than a few posters in here who feel the Eagles should be in the QB market at the 6th overall pick.  If the Eagles are dumb enough to trade Wentz, then it does become a pressing need.

For me the choices come down to a few players only:

Penei Sewell OT — likely off the board by #6, wouldn’t be my first choice, but certainly wouldn’t complain.  He’s a stud, and you shift other pieces on the OL to fit around him

Micah Parsons LB — could be gone also.  Would make the defense better, but is he valuable enough to be a #6 overall pick, given the role of the position in today’s NFL?

Ja’Marr Chase WR — might go #5, but he would be expected to be the Eagles WR1 out of the wrapping if he were the pick.

Patrick Surtain CB — I’ve argued before that the Eagles haven’t drafted a blue-chip CB since .... almost forever.  It’s a need for sure, but a CB at #6?  Surtain is no Jalen Ramsey; there might not be a CB worthy of a top 10 pick in this draft

Devonta Smith, Jaylen Waddle WR — Smith is likely the most pro ready of the WR class along with Chase, not as dynamic.  Waddle is the most explosive WR talent in the draft, but shouldn’t be a #6 overall pick.

I don’t see any DL players even worth discussing without a sizeable trade-back, OG Wyatt Davis would be in play at around #14-16; again that’s a trade-back 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bacarty2 said:

Everything points to Mclane's story being true. 

If it was planned, why was Hurts surprised?

If it was planned, why was the starting center surprised. 

Miles sanders told you everyone was confused and upset. 

Like I said, I posted on here about seeing tweets well before the Mclane story was out. If they talked to Mclane and knew it was coming out was a possibility but like I said, I believe Mclanes story 

 

Kelce said he was surprised he did it at that point in the game, but they knew it was the plan.  Hurts didn't say he was surprised, he was seen unhappy on the sidelines after being benched (anyone would be).  Miles Sanders has been hyping up Hurts since he became the starter, he was very excited about him being the QB instead of Wentz based on PC comments.

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

The OL situation is interesting. I agree that there is an issue longer term, but I was impressed with Herbig at G this year, and obviously Mailata. On the assumption Kelce returns, we'd be looking at:

Dillard/Seumalo/Kelce/Brooks/Lane to start the year, with Mailata a swing T, and Herbig/Driscoll the guards. That's not so awful. The issue of course is injuries, and it is almost a guarantee that Brooks/Lane go down at some point. I think the expectation of having a back up, stud O line is not realistic. I think Mailata and Herbig/Driscoll could fill in for those inevitable injuries. If Dillard/Seumalo/Kelce go down as well, we're in big trouble, but I think almost any team that sustained that would be in big trouble. Combine all of this with the cap issue we face, and for better or worse, that's the nucleus of our O-line for next year. If they end up injured and ineffective, we're likely picking high next year and can grab a top rated o lineman then. 

I'd also like to see what exactly we have in Dillard. If he can be an above average pass blocker and average run blocker, then you can fully transition Mailata to RT to replace Lane. It makes drafting a tackle a bit less pressing. If Dillard just sucks and has no thirst for football, then at least we know, can plug Mailata in as a full time starter and find Lane's replacement next year. 

I think for this year, it makes far more sense to try and find guys later in the draft, specifically for centre, and focus more on upgrading other positions.  

I generally agree with all this but if Sewell is there at 6 I’m taking him. Frankly i doubt he is. And after him I don’t think there’s an offensive olineman that is worthy of taking at six. if you wanted to go oline then you are better off trading back and getting more pics and then selecting one. However I’m not so sure how many teams are going to want to trade into six and three-quarter bass go on the top five. It would mean there would have to be a team wanting to move up for Trey Lance or believe someone like surtain or smith are can’t miss prospects which i am thinking more teams aren’t willing to trade up for them at the price it would cost.  

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I only made the point about fit as if you go back and look at the press conference after they drafted reagor that was the point they were making about taking him over Jefferson and other wide receivers at 21.

i’ve said this multiple times the outlier season for the Philadelphia Eagles is 2017. The four other years of this offense has looked largely the same besides 12 personnel increase that change after 2016 and 2017. But the offense for large portions of the season has been bottom half of the league in 4 of the 5 years doug has been the HC. That’s not a coincidence. At some point in time you have to realize that maybe 2017 they caught lightning in a bottle and that’s not the norm. Now people can say some of it is on wentz which it likely also is someone wentz. However this offense is constructed by doug it hasn’t been successful in adjustments even when Jalen hurts went out there because you saw it in the second half of games they either couldn’t move the ball or they had hallow yards that ended with little or no points. 

In 2016 they had a distinct lack of talent at the skill positions.  I mean they had less talent at WR than in any of the other years and a rookie QB.  I think in 2017 they did a lot of little things that built on other plays where they had success.  They also had a great offensive line early in the season that hid some flaws.  I do think that was the most talented team that the Eagles fielded from a skill position stand point.  2018 and 2019, they lacked speed and that stunted the offense and Carson.  This year they just never look organized and there wasn't single part of the passing game that ever seemed to work consistently.  I mean they couldn't run a screen play.  They missed on deep shots.  TE seem routes were not effective.  TE curls were not effecting.  Nothing worked and nothing was done to try to fix the problems.  

48 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

So you've given up?

I think you are misinterpreting my statement.   Hurts and Wentz aren't the answer to the question: 'What is going to fix this team?' 

There were people saying silly things that 'its all Wentz'... and they were clamoring for Hurts.  But, Hurts wasn't the answer.  It was basically the same offense with Hurts, with a bit more of a rushing attack that opened up (for portions of some games) a little bit in the passing game.  For next year, running it back with Hurts won't fix it.   For next year, running it back with Wentz, even if Wentz is 'fixed' won't fix it.  The team is fundamentally broken.  So, what will fix it?  That's what the rest of that paragraph was about... fundamental change to the organization, not just window dressing.  Doug and Howie were talking about window dressing.   You can put new curtains on a broken window... but it won't fix the window.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

The drafting has sucked.  End of story.

The coaching/development has also sucked.  It's not one or the other.

On TOP of that, the bridge connecting the personnel decisions with the development just might be the biggest problem of all.  Investments in players that do not fit the scheme, players the coaches never even bother to dress or use, etc. etc.  

Amen.  I've been preaching that same sermon for awhile now.   The evidence of this is everywhere.  Wentz playing relatively well hid a lot of the fundamental flaws, but they've been there for 3 years now.

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I feel like there was a report before the game in the morning saying that Sudfeld was very likely to get playing time and prepare like he was going to play. I don’t know how much more evidence you need that the Eagles were planning on playing sudfeld at some point. They didn’t make the generalized statement he’s playing but it was obvious they were going to do so leaking the report they did 

Didnt Collinsworth mention this too during the game before Hurts was pulled?

7 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

In 2016 they had a distinct lack of talent at the skill positions.  I mean they had less talent at WR than in any of the other years and a rookie QB.  I think in 2017 they did a lot of little things that built on other plays where they had success.  They also had a great offensive line early in the season that hid some flaws.  I do think that was the most talented team that the Eagles fielded from a skill position stand point.  2018 and 2019, they lacked speed and that stunted the offense and Carson.  This year they just never look organized and there wasn't single part of the passing game that ever seemed to work consistently.  I mean they couldn't run a screen play.  They missed on deep shots.  TE seem routes were not effective.  TE curls were not effecting.  Nothing worked and nothing was done to try to fix the problems.  

I think 2016 was more understandable as a made the transition from chip to doug. They didn’t have as many draft picks because they moved up to get Carson Wentz. And I’d have to go back and look at their cap situation but I don’t think it was great that off-season. They had some but it wasn’t what it had been in prior years.

I thought 2018 they went the wrong route in getting a speed threat. I said that off-season go get John Brown he’s cheap and he’s young and had been productive with the Cardinals could grow with wentz. Mike Wallace was at the end of his career not in his prime. No one could’ve expected him to get hurt as he never got hurt but there was always a reasonable expectation that at 32 years old he might not be the same player he was just with the previous season.

In 2019 they made the same mistake they made in 2018 which was relying on an older veteran speed threat instead of solving the issue with a younger player. They again could’ve went and got John Brown who was coming off a productive season with the ravens when Flacco was at QB. They again went with an aging veteran and this time they knew he couldn’t stay healthy.

And then in 2020 they did the complete opposite where they just went completely young and relied on the draft. The problem with that is you thought you were a contender. If you didn’t think you were a contender and you were rebuilding then go ahead and do it. Fine with that. However you made yourself believe you were a Super Bowl contender so if you believe that then you should know relying on rookies during a pandemic nonetheless was an idiotic plan to have sustainable success on offense especially when the veterans you did have were unreliable to play week to week. Add on you had chances to add one of the best wide receivers in the league in Hopkins and Stefon Diggs who turned out to be a top-five wide receiver in this league in 2020. 

1 minute ago, 315Eagles said:

Didnt Collinsworth mention this too during the game before Hurts was pulled?

I believe so. 

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

The OL situation is interesting. I agree that there is an issue longer term, but I was impressed with Herbig at G this year, and obviously Mailata. On the assumption Kelce returns, we'd be looking at:

Dillard/Seumalo/Kelce/Brooks/Lane to start the year, with Mailata a swing T, and Herbig/Driscoll the guards. That's not so awful. The issue of course is injuries, and it is almost a guarantee that Brooks/Lane go down at some point. I think the expectation of having a back up, stud O line is not realistic. I think Mailata and Herbig/Driscoll could fill in for those inevitable injuries. If Dillard/Seumalo/Kelce go down as well, we're in big trouble, but I think almost any team that sustained that would be in big trouble. Combine all of this with the cap issue we face, and for better or worse, that's the nucleus of our O-line for next year. If they end up injured and ineffective, we're likely picking high next year and can grab a top rated o lineman then. 

I'd also like to see what exactly we have in Dillard. If he can be an above average pass blocker and average run blocker, then you can fully transition Mailata to RT to replace Lane. It makes drafting a tackle a bit less pressing. If Dillard just sucks and has no thirst for football, then at least we know, can plug Mailata in as a full time starter and find Lane's replacement next year. 

I think for this year, it makes far more sense to try and find guys later in the draft, specifically for centre, and focus more on upgrading other positions.  

The OL is the tipping point for this team.  It's a top 3 reason (on the field) why the team sucked this year...yet it's also the unit with the most promise and opportunity moving forward.

Despite his inexperience, Mailata has the best combination of talent, youth, and actual on-field flash of any player, at any position, on the team.  And I say that as someone who makes fun of people who let the hype run away on this guy.  So this process begins with Mailata...where does he best fit?  LT or RT?  Sure, his playing experience comes at LT, when he impressed.  But he was practicing at RT for a reason...maybe just to groom him as a swing tackle, maybe he might fit even better there.  He is an enormous human being, and, despite his rare athleticism/size, sometimes he did look a little sluggish against speed rushers.  

The RT fit is also a convenient one for the overall OL, as it gives Dillard one last chance to justify his draft status.  Dillard is your prototypical blindside pass protector.  He has his flaws and his concerns, but his ability to kick out and slide back against a speed rush is not easy to find.

That would be great if LT/RT can be accounted for.  With all due respect to Lane, he's already gone in my mind.  There is just no way that Lane's window of availability overlaps with this team's next rebuilt window of opportunity.  No way.

If we get lucky and LT/RT is "set," then we still need 2 interior OL.  No value top 10 there, but they need to give it a long look (maybe more than once) in rounds 2-4.

1 minute ago, 315Eagles said:

Didnt Collinsworth mention this too during the game before Hurts was pulled?

Al Michaels said Doug told them he planned to get Sudfeld into the game.  Michaels said he asked him "even if the game is close?”, and Doug didn’t answer either way.

In the end, it really doesn’t matter what the players thought or were made privy to.  The coaches call the shots and the players play.  Hurts also said it was the coach’s decision to make.

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

Actually, I thought Howie was unusually honest.

He was ready to rebuild when COVID came along, now it's a mess, but an opportunity as well, with the rest of the division in shambles, the Eagles could limp into a 9-7, 10-6 season and take advantage of teams struggling with new HCs, etc. It's hard to start a rebuild when you have a legitimate shot at the playoffs and a home bye. Remember also that no one (other than the POTUS) knew how serious COVID was going to be until April.

1 - He was NOT ready to rebuild when COVID came along.  You don't 'rebuild' by giving away draft picks for a 29 year old CB AND give that CB a big money contract.  

2 - Its hard to start a rebuild when you delude yourself into thinking that your older players can still play at a high level (Desean and Alshon, primarily).

3 - They had no shot at a home 'bye'... maybe at a home game, but that's not a bye.  

4 - ALL major sports leagues had completely shut down operations IN MARCH.  To think that the NFL wouldn't feel a pinch is beyond naive.

 

You've really done a great job of rewriting history just in that one paragraph though.   Ironically, I'd say that Howie was being more honest than you.  I truly believe Howie believes what he is saying... but, I'd say he's deluded himself.   I believe you are just spinning to make Howie look like he has a clue. 

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

1 - He was NOT ready to rebuild when COVID came along.  You don't 'rebuild' by giving away draft picks for a 29 year old CB AND give that CB a big money contract.  

2 - Its hard to start a rebuild when you delude yourself into thinking that your older players can still play at a high level (Desean and Alshon, primarily).

3 - They had no shot at a home 'bye'... maybe at a home game, but that's not a bye.  

4 - ALL major sports leagues had completely shut down operations IN MARCH.  To think that the NFL wouldn't feel a pinch is beyond naive.

 

You've really done a great job or rewriting history just in that one paragraph though.   Ironically, I'd say that Howie was being more honest than you.  I truly believe Howie believes what he is saying... but, I'd say he's deluded himself.   I believe you are just spinning to make Howie look like he has a clue. 

34 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Personally, I know I'm a radical with unpopular opinions...but I think the NFL has a pretty clear and not-subtle edict out there that the way to win is with an elite "inevitable" scoring offense and an average, opportunistic defense.

We have the worst offense in the NFL.  Some rankings don't specifically say that, but I truly believe we do.  Certainly the worst passing efficiency.

A defense can go from bad to average (and I'm not even sure we aren't already there) in one year.

I just see no point in a top 10 pick going to the defensive side of the ball at any position.  We need a QB, we need multiple WRs, we need multiple OL.  We are losing our TE1 and our TE2 is very injury prone.  We have zero RB depth and our RB1 is injury prone.

Our offense is a total raging dumpster fire.  

The defense wasnt bad at all even with lack of talent at LB and secondary.

If you can add a good starter at LB to pair with Singleton and Edward's then pick up or draft a solid CB and Safety then the defense should be more than fine.  They need to stop getting guys that can play all different positions in the secondary.  Get someone that excels at CB.  Get someone that excels at slot.  At Safety, etc, and leave them there.  Dont move guys around all the time.  

But yes I agree in an offensive minded league, the Eagles offense is still stuck in the stone ages.  Loading up on offense wouldn't be a bad idea because we need it.

The more I look into the draft, the more I come out thinking this is just not a good top 10 draft class. 

QB: Probably the strongest position, but not amazing. Lawrence, Fields and Wilson should be locks. Lance maybe. 

RB/TE: None, unless someone reaches for Pitts at the back end.

WR: Chase, Smith, maybe Wadle.

OL: Sewell. Maybe Slater, but feel like it would be a reach for a team with a need.

DL: IMO, none. Paye and Rousseau would both be reaches but are probably the top 2.

LB: Parsons

CB: Farley and Surtain. Personally I don't think either are top 10 prospects and will only go because its a weak top end class. 

S: None.

What this all tells me is there should be a run on QB's early and often. You pretty much have to hope Lance or Wilson slip to 6 if you want any shot of trading back. If you stay put, there's not many options. It's easy to say OL/DL should be the pick, but in this class it would be a reach. CB is a big need, but again, probably would be a reach, imo. Parsons I'm not even going to consider based on the Eagles history. Maybe this is the year they over correct at LB and take him, but I'm betting they don't. 

1 hour ago, Desertbirds said:

... 

Impressive list... but you missed a few names.

Slay (acquired just as he ages out of his position, costing draft capital and cap space)
Genard Avery (wasted 4th round pick trade... had one nice game)
Golden Tate (whoops... I wonder what that 3rd round pick we traded him away for would look like... probably Davion Taylor or Rasul Douglas, so maybe not much lost here after all).

 

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t think singleton is a jag. He might not be great but he’s at least an average starter. He proved that. Imo a jag is a ST/backup that’s likely out of the league in a year 

also not sure how wallace is a bust. He was a fourth round pick. If you get a backup in rounds 4-7 that lasts more than 3 years thats actually beating the odds by nfl standards. 

i get what you are saying though. Just disagreed on those two. 

Singleton is a 28 year old LB who is just now playing any noise, playing on a defense that is desperate for any competent LB.  He's a case of the tallest midget in the circus.  He's better than Gerry.  He might be an average starting LB.  He's more likely a quality backup... he's far more Ike Reese than anything else... and I'd say he's got a ways to go to reach Ike levels.

Howie is just gas lighting this fan base. Nothing he says should be taken at face value.

 

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

Howie is just gas lighting this fan base. Nothing he says should be taken at face value.

That's okay I have crop dusted his face on my screen, so we're even

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

The more I look into the draft, the more I come out thinking this is just not a good top 10 draft class. 

QB: Probably the strongest position, but not amazing. Lawrence, Fields and Wilson should be locks. Lance maybe. 

RB/TE: None, unless someone reaches for Pitts at the back end.

WR: Chase, Smith, maybe Wadle.

OL: Sewell. Maybe Slater, but feel like it would be a reach for a team with a need.

DL: IMO, none. Paye and Rousseau would both be reaches but are probably the top 2.

LB: Parsons

CB: Farley and Surtain. Personally I don't think either are top 10 prospects and will only go because its a weak top end class. 

S: None.

What this all tells me is there should be a run on QB's early and often. You pretty much have to hope Lance or Wilson slip to 6 if you want any shot of trading back. If you stay put, there's not many options. It's easy to say OL/DL should be the pick, but in this class it would be a reach. CB is a big need, but again, probably would be a reach, imo. Parsons I'm not even going to consider based on the Eagles history. Maybe this is the year they over correct at LB and take him, but I'm betting they don't. 

Agree with pretty much all of this.  What do you think the Eagles will do (and should do) if the top 5 before the Eagles pick goes — Lawrence, Fields, Sewell, Parsons, Chase?

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Singleton is a 28 year old LB who is just now playing any noise, playing on a defense that is desperate for any competent LB.  He's a case of the tallest midget in the circus.  He's better than Gerry.  He might be an average starting LB.  He's more likely a quality backup... he's far more Ike Reese than anything else... and I'd say he's got a ways to go to reach Ike levels.

Singleton is going to be the Greg Ward of the defense this offseason. I already know it.

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

Singleton is going to be the Greg Ward of the defense this offseason. I already know it.

But Singleton is actually good.

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

The more I look into the draft, the more I come out thinking this is just not a good top 10 draft class. 

QB: Probably the strongest position, but not amazing. Lawrence, Fields and Wilson should be locks. Lance maybe. 

RB/TE: None, unless someone reaches for Pitts at the back end.

WR: Chase, Smith, maybe Wadle.

OL: Sewell. Maybe Slater, but feel like it would be a reach for a team with a need.

DL: IMO, none. Paye and Rousseau would both be reaches but are probably the top 2.

LB: Parsons

CB: Farley and Surtain. Personally I don't think either are top 10 prospects and will only go because its a weak top end class. 

S: None.

What this all tells me is there should be a run on QB's early and often. You pretty much have to hope Lance or Wilson slip to 6 if you want any shot of trading back. If you stay put, there's not many options. It's easy to say OL/DL should be the pick, but in this class it would be a reach. CB is a big need, but again, probably would be a reach, imo. Parsons I'm not even going to consider based on the Eagles history. Maybe this is the year they over correct at LB and take him, but I'm betting they don't. 

This is exactly how I feel. I feel like the value of the six pack is only if there’s a quarterback there that some team wants to trade up for.
 I don’t think it’s a great year to be picking in the top 6 unless you need a quarterback. I like surtain and Farley but I’m with you I don’t think either one of them is a six overall pick. To me Sewell is the only olineman that should be taken in the top 10 and he’s unlikely to be there at 6

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

You get one top pick if you're a bad team, how do you think teams amass talent?

By coaching up "JAGs" into real players.

Cleveland had numerous high picks and it took them a decade to develop a winning team, but I'm sure you'd have rated all those picks as "can't miss" because they were names.

Fraley was a JAG, Mayberry was a Bust, Walker was a JAG, Al Harris was a JAG, and so on.

Eagles will get 6 top 100 picks the next two drafts, even a top drafter will miss on one or two. So to turn this team around, they have to turn some "JAGs" into "players."

A lot of these players have been with these same coaches for a while now.  Where will we start to see them be 'coached up'?   Right now they seem to be getting 'coached down'.  

 

Last 6 top 100 picks by this team: 
Reagor (21), Hurts (53), (Taylor was 103 - so technically doesn't count)
Dillard (22), Sanders (53), JJAW (57)
Goedert (49)
 

If the Eagles get 6 more players like that... that's not a good thing to turn around a franchise.   (Just as a reminder... these are ALL the top 100 picks this team has gotten in the 3 years since the Super Bowl.   1 bust (JJAW), 1 near bust (Dillard, he's got to do something this year), 1 starter, who needs to be spelled often due to nagging injuries and 'fatigue' (Sanders), 1 backup who might have starter potential (Goedert), and 2 giant 'Incompletes'... ignoring Taylor who is an even bigger incomplete.

 

I have no hopes for this group of talent evaluators making much of a turn around.

They really sucked at using him