10 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

This portion is just not correct; Hurts was steadily getting worse over his 4-game audition.  The more film the opponent got on him, the worse he got.  He didn’t even look passable as a starting QB vs DAL or WFT.  
 

To answer the simple question:  get the OL healthy, dump Alshon and D-Jax, go forward with a game plan where Wentz throws 30-34 times instead of 38-46 times and yes, Wentz will be demonstrably better 

To evaluate a rookie QB with a sample size of 4 games in the NFL (when the rookie QB did not have a pre-season) and to determine that "he didn't look passable as starting QB" is nonsensical.  Especially when that rookie QB showed potential to just about everyone other than those in the "die-hard" Wentz camp.

 

Do you realize that Wentz has "requested to be traded" even after Pederson was let go and Sirianni brought in?   So you bring him back, as an owner and GM, when you know he requested to be traded?  If you're an owner and/or GM that just let their head coach go because of "differences of opinion" what makes you think they would be fine with betting their 2+ billion dollar franchise on a QB that doesn't want to be here? In what universe does that makes sense? 

12 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The Bucs were exceptionally lucky to win the SB.  That's not to take too much away from them; they deserved it.  It always takes luck to win the SB.  As 31 other teams study the Bucs path to the title, it's important to separate a future model from luck.  And any time an 11 win wild card team wins it all, there's a lot of luck involved.

1. Wild card team in a year where there was no true HFA, so playoff parity was increased.

2. The NFC opponents: Opened up by playing the worst playoff team in NFL history.  Then outdueled a Saints team that just had nothing left in the tank.  The Packers were a nice win.  

3.  The LT's.  Their last 2 wins came against teams missing their LT's...

4.  The SB.  I do not think it is possible to overstate the impact of what happened with AR's son in the days leading up to the SB.  AR is the brain behind that machine.  His son may go to jail for a very, very long time.  The Bucs have a good defense.  They do not have a great one.  They were 18th in the NFL against the pass.  For the best offense in NFL history to not score a single TD in the game...there was more in play here than "defense wins championships" and "we need to find our own JPP stud pass rusher."

I'm not in the mood to argue with Beast, so I'm not trying to argue the Bucs didn't deserve this.  I'm only arguing that this Bucs team is not a blueprint for how to win a SB.  

I’m not gonna disagree with you it’s not the blueprint that normal teams are going to take to get to a Super Bowl title. It’s not very often that the greatest quarterback in the history of the NFL becomes available as a free agent and is willing to bring guys like Antonio Brown, Leonard Fournette and Gronkowski with him to Tampa Bay. that doesn’t happen very often. It’s similar to the Broncos who had talent on the Broncos and added Manning.

However I think their defense made leaps and bounds improvement from 2019. They were starting to get it together at the end of 2019. I didn’t think they were as good as people were making them at the end of 2019. I thought a lot of their statistics were skewed because Jameis Winston was giving their defense short fields because of the turnover so yardage didn’t accumulate due to the shorter fields but they were definitely headed in the right direction. And then they drafted and they’ve developed some of the young players on defense. I gave the bucs a ton of credit because I thought that the main reason they beat the Packers what is the defense.  because when Brady threw three consecutive interceptions the defense stood up and without that they probably lose. And in the Super Bowl if you’re holding the Chiefs to nine points even without their tackles that is quite the accomplishment. I think the MVP for the Buccaneers this entire run was their defense they created turnovers especially in the Green Bay game they got 14 points off their turnovers and one was at the 8 yard line. The two turnovers in the Green Bay game what’s the difference. The Aaron Jones Fumble and recovery at the 8 yard line is the difference in that game. The interception to set up the Scotty Miller touchdown was huge

9 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The Bucs were exceptionally lucky to win the SB.  That's not to take too much away from them; they deserved it.  It always takes luck to win the SB.  As 31 other teams study the Bucs path to the title, it's important to separate a future model from luck.  And any time an 11 win wild card team wins it all, there's a lot of luck involved.

1. Wild card team in a year where there was no true HFA, so playoff parity was increased.

2. The NFC opponents: Opened up by playing the worst playoff team in NFL history.  Then outdueled a Saints team that just had nothing left in the tank.  The Packers were a nice win.  

3.  The LT's.  Their last 2 wins came against teams missing their LT's...

4.  The SB.  I do not think it is possible to overstate the impact of what happened with AR's son in the days leading up to the SB.  AR is the brain behind that machine.  His son may go to jail for a very, very long time.  The Bucs have a good defense.  They do not have a great one.  They were 18th in the NFL against the pass.  For the best offense in NFL history to not score a single TD in the game...there was more in play here than "defense wins championships" and "we need to find our own JPP stud pass rusher."

I'm not in the mood to argue with Beast, so I'm not trying to argue the Bucs didn't deserve this.  I'm only arguing that this Bucs team is not a blueprint for how to win a SB.  

You don't whoop a team start to finish   31- 9 because of luck...all teams have injuries, bucs were missing their starting RG.

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

We want to be left holding the bag

We do?

4 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

If the trade talks are Wentz-driven and not Eagles-driven, the most logical answer is job/contract security.  Wentz wants to be someplace where he is the unquestioned starting QB and the Eagles are not making him that promise.

It’s not an issue of an open competition in training camp — Wentz would likely win that.  It’s a combination of players going to Doug and telling him to get Hurts in there, the media undermining his abilities, him being the fall guy for all the organization’s failures, and most importantly — the risk that the Eagles walk away from his contract at the end of this season.

This is mostly business, and I think his agent is steering him somewhat. 

So you think the conflict is between him and his teammates not Howie ? Not Hurts ? Any reason ?  That would be sad if true

 

36 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Divided locker rooms are always a great thing to have

Ehhh. The younger guys don’t care as much about a rebuild as the older guys? Who could have guessed?

16 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

 

That was complete click bait honestly.

3 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

To evaluate a rookie QB with a sample size of 4 games in the NFL (when the rookie QB did not have a pre-season) and to determine that "he didn't look passable as starting QB" is nonsensical.  Especially when that rookie QB showed potential to just about everyone other than those in the "die-hard" Wentz camp.

 

Do you realize that Wentz has "requested to be traded" even after Pederson was let go and Sirianni brought in?   So you bring him back, as an owner and GM, when you know he requested to be traded?  If you're an owner and/or GM that just let their head coach go because of "differences of opinion" what makes you think they would be fine with betting their 2+ billion dollar franchise on a QB that doesn't want to be here? In what universe does that makes sense? 

Count me as someone who is not in the die hard Wentz camp who sees zero potential in Hurts.  

Aside from the "Sure, any QB who runs too much might one day turn into Russell Wilson or at least Jeff Garcia" schtick, there's no reason to be excited here.  

There are multiple problems here.  I do understand that the coaching staff has changed, but that already presents problems for a 2nd year QB.  For a QB to have spent his entire 1st year in the NFL being coached as a hybrid H-back/QB, for him to have been used as a run-first QB in his 4 games of limited action...this is what he is.  Every critical play he's looking to tuck and run. 

Can these things be fixed?  Maybe.  Sure.  But why?  Why on earth are we committing to a guy that, as is, is just a bad passer with limited arm talent?

The running ability is nice, but that's icing on the cake.  It's not what you build around.  

2 hours ago, eagle45 said:

As you know, I criticize Wentz on the field a ton.  Moving past that, I could not blame him for being disgruntled and I could not imagine how he could possibly NOT be disgruntled.

He was surrounded by garbage.  Rather than invest in improving that situation, they drafted someone to take his job.  In a disastrous 2020 in which everyone was overpaid and sucked, Wentz was the ONLY one held accountable and benched.  Then the offseason comes and he's under fire for not proclaiming his love for team and city.  Days after that, his name is bounced around like a hot potato in trade rumors...trade rumors the Eagles likely started to create a market.  The even bigger overriding problem, amidst all this drama, is that Wentz basically has 1-2 years to reclaim his manhood and prove that 2017 and parts of 2019 were no fluke....and our owner just so happened to announce to the world that the Eagles really aren't all that interested in competing during that 1-2 year interval as they rebuild.  

If Wentz has any interest in sticking around, then he has more Philadelphia in his blood than Pat's, Geno's, and the Tasty Cake factory combined.

 

They used a 1st on Dillard and Reagor, as 2nd on JJAW and Sanders and Goedert, a 4th on Driscoll, 5th and 6th on other WRs, signed Wallace and DeSean, brought Jeffrey back - you can claim a lot of things, but they put far more resources in the offense than the defense. Somethings things don't work out. If they don't draft Hurts, they probably take Chinn, so as far as Wentz, that's a wash.

43 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Divided locker rooms are always a great thing to have

Haha what "younger” guys. There is not one guy in that locker room under 30 worth an opinion. 

On the plus side, Tampa winning secures something nice for the Eagles...

Not many teams in recent history have won 13+ regular season games, been the #1 seed with the best record in the NFL, and won the SB.

2017 Eagles can claim all 3.

4 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Anyone with a brain should. 

Franchise QB's are few and far between. for 3 of the 4 years he;s shown you, hes that guy. Dont let one **** year, after 4 **** drafts think hes not. 

Wentz doesn't want to be here

1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

Hurts got on the field and played, though.  He clearly showed he’s a solid #2 but very pedestrian #1.  A clear case can be made that he played as poorly or worse than Wentz did

He was a freakin' rookie playing in a shell of an offense - if I'm Siri I just burn the video and start from scratch.

Nor is there any reason you can't have both QBs - there's a controversy, big deal - Siri just tells 'em you have to win the job like everyone else on the roster, because I'm new and I owe no one a job. Given they're rebuilding, no one's job is safe, but there's no reason to have a fire sale either.

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

They used a 1st on Dillard and Reagor, as 2nd on JJAW and Sanders and Goedert, a 4th on Driscoll, 5th and 6th on other WRs, signed Wallace and DeSean, brought Jeffrey back - you can claim a lot of things, but they put far more resources in the offense than the defense. Somethings things don't work out. If they don't draft Hurts, they probably take Chinn, so as far as Wentz, that's a wash.

"I think a lot of fans fail to understand the meaning of sunk cost."

In round 2, they could have drafted more talent to help Wentz, instead they drafted talent to challenge him.

Just now, greendestiny27 said:

Wentz doesn't want to be here

Did you talk to him? 

23 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

"I get a sense.."

More of people just doing what we're doing in here. Guessing. 

Any of you getting paid for your posts in here?

I feed my family on likes

11 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

To evaluate a rookie QB with a sample size of 4 games in the NFL (when the rookie QB did not have a pre-season) and to determine that "he didn't look passable as starting QB" is nonsensical.  Especially when that rookie QB showed potential to just about everyone other than those in the "die-hard" Wentz camp.

 

Do you realize that Wentz has "requested to be traded" even after Pederson was let go and Sirianni brought in?   So you bring him back, as an owner and GM, when you know he requested to be traded?  If you're an owner and/or GM that just let their head coach go because of "differences of opinion" what makes you think they would be fine with betting their 2+ billion dollar franchise on a QB that doesn't want to be here? In what universe does that makes sense? 

I said before Hurts ever went into the starting lineup that I liked the idea of him getting a 4-game audition so the organization can evaluate his ceiling.  Hurts got more of a look than many backup QBs ever get.  What did he show his ceiling to be, a QB that can run for 106 yards one week against a good defense that didn’t game plan for him?  If his performances were inverted — where he started out bad against WFT and DAL, then caught on and improved against better defenses like ARI and NO — maybe he’s got something.  It was the opposite; he started out hot as many #2 QB do with energy off the bench, then NFL DCs (yes, even Mike Nolan) watched his film, set up their defenses accordingly — and Hurts looked bad

Your second paragraph is a lot of supposition without any facts (BS).  Wentz has never requested to be traded, and Doug wasn’t fired for a difference of opinion.

 

Just now, greend said:

Did you talk to him? 

It's pretty obvious. It's over for Wentz in midnight green. 

1 minute ago, greendestiny27 said:

It's pretty obvious. It's over for Wentz in midnight green. 

They’re switching back to kelly green?

Just now, Alphagrand said:

They’re switching back to kelly green?

Would be a dream come true for me. 

5 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’ll say this again anyone who thinks Hurts was a doug pick is crazy. So the eagles (howie and Lurie) didn’t let Doug pick his own staff, forced him to fire coaches he didn’t want to fire and didn’t give him the ability to make the gameday  roster actives and inactives. Buuuuut they were like hey Doug we are picking at 53 please tells us who you want cause that’s who we are going to draft because all of the sudden we now trust you even though for years we haven’t with all of those other things. If you believe that i have some beans to sell you. 

HOWIE                                                           DOUG

 

Just now, greendestiny27 said:

It's pretty obvious. It's over for Wentz in midnight green. 

So that's a no then. Maybe he wants out, maybe he doesn't. Maybe the Eagles want him gone at all costs, maybe they don't.  We'll all find out sometime before the season starts.

What's still funny to me is that officially neither side has said ish about it.

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Count me as someone who is not in the die hard Wentz camp who sees zero potential in Hurts.  

Aside from the "Sure, any QB who runs too much might one day turn into Russell Wilson or at least Jeff Garcia" schtick, there's no reason to be excited here.  

There are multiple problems here.  I do understand that the coaching staff has changed, but that already presents problems for a 2nd year QB.  For a QB to have spent his entire 1st year in the NFL being coached as a hybrid H-back/QB, for him to have been used as a run-first QB in his 4 games of limited action...this is what he is.  Every critical play he's looking to tuck and run. 

Can these things be fixed?  Maybe.  Sure.  But why?  Why on earth are we committing to a guy that, as is, is just a bad passer with limited arm talent?

The running ability is nice, but that's icing on the cake.  It's not what you build around.  

Who says they are "committing to Hurts"?   They have a guy they see potential in with in Hurts but there's no way a franchise can evaluate a QB after 4 games without a pre-season.  If the rumor is true that Wentz does not want to be here, what other options do they have at this point?  Obviously they will move forward with Hurts if Wentz is dealt and go from there. 

Younger players saw the Carson Wentz that was the worst QB in the NFL.
Older players saw Wentz have an MVP season.

It's not hard to understand why there's a split.

There is no urgency for Howie to do anything, he's made it clear they're rebuilding, so he wants the maximum return.

The cap money doesn't matter.

Winning doesn't matter.

What matters is rebuilding the next two years and building a critical mass of talent, if in doing so, you pull a Miami (10-6 after they traded everyone), great.

So it's all about value and figuring out who will be here in 2023.

Wentz has every reason to work his ass off, if no one even considers him worth a late 1st rd pick, his career is in jeopardy.

Siri didn't give him that contract, he doesn't have to play him, so Wentz better impress the new HC if he's still here. Otherwise he'll be #2 for two years before they cut him.