4 hours ago, Bacarty2 said:

Wentz doesnt want to deal with Howie it seems. 

 

I imagine Wentz is not alone there.

2 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

That's a very well thought out post.  

That said, if you're Wentz (or his agent) and you just had the season you had, are you still assuming the Eagles will restructure your deal and give you all the added security you were expecting?  A good portion of the contract is guaranteed so Wentz will get paid one way or another so I don't understand where all this "added security" that he would expect is coming from?

Added security comes from restructuring. Anytime you restructure in the way I described, it makes it harder for the team to financially move on from the player. It’s basically the exact thing they did with other vets on the team like Lane Johnson. It’s just an add on benefit, the more important thing of a restructure is getting an upfront check for several millions of dollars. 
 

Now should he or his agent assume he would still get this after his season? From the outside looking in, they should not. But I don’t know what promises were made or assurances were given. Maybe Howie doubled down after drafting Hurts and told Carson not to worry because they will still redo his deal at the end of the season? I can just see a scenario that something was promised to him in good faith that is now be reneged which would and should piss him off and have him mad at Howie for.
 

 

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Added security comes from restructuring. Anytime you restructure in the way I described, it makes it harder for the team to financially move on from the player. It’s basically the exact thing they did with other vets on the team like Lane Johnson. It’s just an add on benefit, the more important thing of a restructure is getting an upfront check for several millions of dollars. 
 

Now should he or his agent assume he would still get this after his season? From the outside looking in, they should not. But I don’t know what promises were made or assurances were given. Maybe Howie doubled down after drafting Hurts and told Carson not to worry because they will still redo his deal at the end of the season? I can just see a scenario that something was promised to him in good faith that is now be reneged which would and should piss him off and have him mad at Howie for.
 

 

So you think the reason he "reportedly" wants to be traded is because the Eagles won't guarantee a restructure (which is basically guaranteeing he's the starter)?

 

37 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Howie's got to do what's best for the team.

Well he hasn’t done that in regards to cap management, trades, talent evaluation and drafting since the Super Bowl.  Why would he start now.

6 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

When are we retiring the #9? 

Probably when Foles retires

5 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Added security comes from restructuring. Anytime you restructure in the way I described, it makes it harder for the team to financially move on from the player. It’s basically the exact thing they did with other vets on the team like Lane Johnson. It’s just an add on benefit, the more important thing of a restructure is getting an upfront check for several millions of dollars. 
 

Now should he or his agent assume he would still get this after his season? From the outside looking in, they should not. But I don’t know what promises were made or assurances were given. Maybe Howie doubled down after drafting Hurts and told Carson not to worry because they will still redo his deal at the end of the season? I can just see a scenario that something was promised to him in good faith that is now be reneged which would and should piss him off and have him mad at Howie for.
 

 

The main issue I have with this theory is that it would be unlikely that they would have discussed the contract during the season, which is when Wentz made it clear that he wanted out.

Of course, nobody here would put such acts past Howie (and honestly wouldn’t blame him for reneging here - Carson got what was market for him in 2019 without any additional promises and then he proceeded to tank his career).

Didn't realize Curtis Samuel was a free agent. I'd really try to get him in here. Versatile offensive weapon. 

Just now, greendestiny27 said:

Didn't realize Curtis Samuel was a free agent. I'd really try to get him in here. Versatile offensive weapon. 

Don't think the Eagles will have the $$$ for that caliber of FA

Just now, Freshmilk said:

Don't think the Eagles will have the $$$ for that caliber of FA

Another good job by Howie 

1 minute ago, Freshmilk said:

Don't think the Eagles will have the $$$ for that caliber of FA

Eh, probably not... I was day dreaming of singing Curtis Samuel then drafting Pitts and Javonte Williams in rounds 1 & 2. Offense immensely upgraded. 

2 hours ago, NCiggles said:

I don't think it drives up the price.  I think media may think it and maybe agents want to make it seem like there's a ton of interest but I just don't think it really is a strategy that teams think impacts the market.  Again, would you spend millions of dollars based upon some NFL report? I wouldn't and I can't imagine a GM being so careless that they would.  

It’s not about looking at a report and blindly upping your own price, but the goal is to obtain the player/asset for the cheapest price possible. If the team/agent can create the illusion of a more robust market, it can artificially inflate the price in some shape or form.

It’s not like teams post their interest or offers on a league message board for all teams to see. If you are offering a 2 and believe another team is doing the same, whether it’s media reports or Roseman saying so, it can squeeze an extra asset into a deal.

4 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

Don't think the Eagles will have the $$$ for that caliber of FA

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/curtis-samuel-21781/market-value/

$12.4M

9 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I'm not sure he does. What if Mariota could be had for a 4th?

I'd much rather have him for a 4th than Wentz for two 1sts.

Mariota?  The Colts would be taking a pretty big step backwards going from Rivers to Mariota, imo.  You're basically going from a near-elite level QB to a guy who was replaced by Tannehill in Tennessee (with success, btw). And backed up David Carr this past season.  (Similar type QB as Rivers)

How do you expect to win "more games" with a QB who would have likely backed up your most recent QB (if they were on the same team)? 

At least with Wentz, if you're Frank Reich, you know the potential is there and you know what he did for you in 2017.  Wentz' ceiling is above pretty much every other QB on the market (other than maybe Watson).  The only question should be whether or not the team acquiring him can get him back to that form...and if I'm Frank Reich and the Colts, I would think that there's a good chance I could...especially if Wentz himself wants to be there.  You'll have a super-motivated Wentz playing for the guy he likely most respects as a coach.  That alone could go a long way in turning around his career, imo. 

43 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

This just makes no sense to me.

To a rebuilding team that does not aspire to compete, a QB has binary value.  Either you want to rebuild around Wentz, or you don’t.  

If you do, you shouldn’t be floating the guy on the trade market.  

And if you don’t, then a first round pick for a qb you weren’t building around anyway is a no brainer.  Take the best offer and run.  

Holding out for more is just an invitation to get burnt and end up holding the bag on a pissed off Wentz and his contract.  Pigs get slaughtered and that’s what’s going to happen if Howie gets greedy while unloading a qb who wasn’t even in the plans.

This is how I feel also. Stop holding out for a Stafford type return, not every circumstance is the same. That moron Howie is trying to get a historic trade done for Wentz just to make headlines and show Eagles nation "See! I’m still a great GM!”  Smh  

2 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Mariota?  The Colts would be taking a pretty big step backwards going from Rivers to Mariota, imo.  You're basically going from a near-elite level QB to a guy who was replaced by Tannehill in Tennessee (with success, btw). And backed up David Carr this past season.  (Similar type QB as Rivers)

How do you expect to win "more games" with a QB who would have likely backed up your most recent QB (if they were on the same team)? 

At least with Wentz, if you're Frank Reich, you know the potential is there and you know what he did for you in 2017.  Wentz' ceiling is above pretty much every other QB on the market (other than maybe Watson).  The only question should be whether or not the team acquiring him can get him back to that form...and if I'm Frank Reich and the Colts, I would think that there's a good chance I could...especially if Wentz himself wants to be there.  You'll have a super-motivated Wentz playing for the guy he likely most respects as a coach.  That alone could go a long way in turning around his career, imo. 

Mariota was just a random example, it's all about cost. People are acting like the Eagles have the most attractive QB on the trade market, and I disagree with that. I don't think they're in position to play hard to get when there are other QBs out there who can likely be had for a lot less. Wentz is coming off an awful season. And I don't see why teams would up their offers. What will change now to March to make them more desperate? And why would they increase their offer when they can just pursue other QBs. I'd rather have Carr right now than Wentz. Maybe teams will just say F it, I'll just draft a QB if that's the price.

19 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

So you think the reason he "reportedly" wants to be traded is because the Eagles won't guarantee a restructure (which is basically guaranteeing he's the starter)?

 

Just my guess as to what could be causing irreconcilable differences between Howie and Wentz. Problems like this almost 90% always have to do with money somehow. 

15 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

Eh, probably not... I was day dreaming of singing Curtis Samuel then drafting Pitts and Javonte Williams in rounds 1 & 2. Offense immensely upgraded. 

It may be a day dreamin' kind of season.

18 minutes ago, Thrive said:

The main issue I have with this theory is that it would be unlikely that they would have discussed the contract during the season, which is when Wentz made it clear that he wanted out.

Of course, nobody here would put such acts past Howie (and honestly wouldn’t blame him for reneging here - Carson got what was market for him in 2019 without any additional promises and then he proceeded to tank his career).

My initial theory was it was discussed when they first signed the extension. With the way his contract was structured and the way it aligns with Eagles cap as a whole, I’m 99% confident at some point in time the plan was to restructure him this offseason. Now as to how much was assured or promised to him, who knows. I’m just taking different things and trying to connect the dots.

21 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

Don't think the Eagles will have the $$$ for that caliber of FA

It’s a great year for WRs in FA too 

The animosity toward Howie amuses me, people complain they fired Doug 3 years after winning a SB, but Howie rebuilt the Eagles after AR's 4-12 debacle, then again after Chip imploded.

Eagles not only won the SB, but went to the playoffs two more times, and if not for injuries, might have gotten to at least the Championship game.

Has he made mistakes? Sure, but that applies to every GM, in the end, you're judged by winning, and Howie twice helped the Eagles become a winning franchise in 8 years.

JJAW was his worst pick, but it's unlikely they would have taken Metcalf, 31 teams passed on him, probably due to medical concerns.

Fulgham's five games 10/4 to 11/1:  Wentz  99/173 57.2%  1151 yards, 6.6 Y/A  9-6, 21 sacks, Fulgham during that stretch produced at a similar level to Jefferson. 29 catches, 44 targets, 436 yards. So even if they draft Jefferson instead of Reagor (and thus never pick up Fulgham), it wouldn't have made much of a difference in Wentz's season. B/c the OL was imploding. So it was a mistake, but not the reason the offense cratered.

Hurts, if he becomes an average starting NFL QB, say Murray/Stafford/Ryan last season, that's a steal at #53. He's not the reason the season went south.

The big contracts, basically Jeffrey and DeSean, both mistakes.

The injury luck, that wasn't in his control other than DeSean. Brooks, Lane, top OL play to 35 or older, Wallace/Jerrigan/Malik/Darby, durable players who come here and fall apart. Hicks goes to Dallas and plays 16 games, same with Darby in Wash. Dillard? At some point it's ridiculous - but we'll see if it was due to Doug's preseason and practices or just bad luck the next couple years. Better injury luck and we might be talking back to back 10-6 seasons and a championship game appearance in 2018/2019, and better health on the OL last season and we're talking 8-8.

I don't know if it's the "football guy" fantasy (most fail, including all the ones Howie supposedly "pushed out"), or Howie looks like a dweeb or antisemitism (Jews can't play sports, they shouldn't run franchises). But if Howie hasn't earned the chance to rebuild this team, who has?

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The animosity toward Howie amuses me, people complain they fired Doug 3 years after winning a SB, but Howie rebuilt the Eagles after AR's 4-12 debacle, then again after Chip imploded.

Eagles not only won the SB, but went to the playoffs two more times, and if not for injuries, might have gotten to at least the Championship game.

Has he made mistakes? Sure, but that applies to every GM, in the end, you're judged by winning, and Howie twice helped the Eagles become a winning franchise in 8 years.

JJAW was his worst pick, but it's unlikely they would have taken Metcalf, 31 teams passed on him, probably due to medical concerns.

Fulgham's five games 10/4 to 11/1:  Wentz  99/173 57.2%  1151 yards, 6.6 Y/A  9-6, 21 sacks, Fulgham during that stretch produced at a similar level to Jefferson. 29 catches, 44 targets, 436 yards. So even if they draft Jefferson instead of Reagor (and thus never pick up Fulgham), it wouldn't have made much of a difference in Wentz's season. B/c the OL was imploding. So it was a mistake, but not the reason the offense cratered.

Hurts, if he becomes an average starting NFL QB, say Murray/Stafford/Ryan last season, that's a steal at #53. He's not the reason the season went south.

The big contracts, basically Jeffrey and DeSean, both mistakes.

The injury luck, that wasn't in his control other than DeSean. Brooks, Lane, top OL play to 35 or older, Wallace/Jerrigan/Malik/Darby, durable players who come here and fall apart. Hicks goes to Dallas and plays 16 games, same with Darby in Wash. Dillard? At some point it's ridiculous - but we'll see if it was due to Doug's preseason and practices or just bad luck the next couple years. Better injury luck and we might be talking back to back 10-6 seasons and a championship game appearance in 2018/2019, and better health on the OL last season and we're talking 8-8.

I don't know if it's the "football guy" fantasy (most fail, including all the ones Howie supposedly "pushed out"), or Howie looks like a dweeb or antisemitism (Jews can't play sports, they shouldn't run franchises). But if Howie hasn't earned the chance to rebuild this team, who has?

Any GM not named Howie

You can't judge any GM on reports. You judge them on the deal.

If we get a good return for Wentz, he did a good job.
If we get a bad return for Wentz, he didn't.

Avoid the noise.

20 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Mariota was just a random example, it's all about cost. People are acting like the Eagles have the most attractive QB on the trade market, and I disagree with that. I don't think they're in position to play hard to get when there are other QBs out there who can likely be had for a lot less. Wentz is coming off an awful season. And I don't see why teams would up their offers. What will change now to March to make them more desperate? And why would they increase their offer when they can just pursue other QBs. I'd rather have Carr right now than Wentz. Maybe teams will just say F it, I'll just draft a QB if that's the price.

 

So I think for other teams Wentz might be the most attractive QB on the market because of his potential ceiling and the cost it will take to get it.   Wentz isn't the best QB on the market or the safest but it maybe the cheapest QB you can trade for with the highest upside.  This would allow you to keep assest and have highend potential at the QB position.  It is all risk/reward correct.  

 

Imagine if Howie actually is overplaying his hand as some are reporting and he ends up choosing between giving Wentz away or trying to bring him back after all of this. What a disaster.

14 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Mariota was just a random example, it's all about cost. People are acting like the Eagles have the most attractive QB on the trade market, and I disagree with that. I don't think they're in position to play hard to get when there are other QBs out there who can likely be had for a lot less. Wentz is coming off an awful season. And I don't see why teams would up their offers. What will change now to March to make them more desperate? And why would they increase their offer when they can just pursue other QBs. I'd rather have Carr right now than Wentz. Maybe teams will just say F it, I'll just draft a QB if that's the price.

Indy doesn't want a less costly QB, they want to pay the least for the best available QB.

And is Watson really that much better than Wentz? Watson puts up great individual statistics, they didn't seem to translate to team scoring (402, 378, 384) last three seasons. Meanwhile, Indy going from Luck to Brisset to Rivers scores 433, 361, 454 - the only pro bowl skill players? Ebron in 2018, Doyle in 2019, both TEs. Houston? Miller pro bowl, Hopkins all pro in 2018, Hopkins all pro in 2019. Eagles those three years, 367, 385, 344, Ertz pro bowl 2018, 2019. I expect an elite QB to have a bigger impact on team scoring.