4 minutes ago, Gannan said:

I wouldn't say DeSantis has no chance. It's still early. I would put it at 80% Trump, 20% DeSantis. 

i'm definitely voting for desantis. just have to hope that more & more on the right wake up some as the campaigns move along. 

Just now, Alpha_TATEr said:

i'm definitely voting for desantis. just have to hope that more & more on the right wake up some as the campaigns move along. 

I mean, if it gets to PA and it's still competitive and just between those two.. yeah I guess DeSantis at least has a shot at being less bad. but the guy is a total d-bag. 

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I mean, if it gets to PA and it's still competitive and just between those two.. yeah I guess DeSantis at least has a shot at being less bad. but the guy is a total d-bag. 

Like I said, I don't like him, but the thought of Trump getting back into power is terrifying. I don't think the country as we know it survives. I'm not being hyperbolic. If Trump gets back in, we won;t have another presidential election again. He will stay in power until he dies, and then most likely his son takes over. Or think about this, if he picks MTG and she ultimately takes over when he dies in office. It's too horrifying to think about.

If DeSantis gets in he will be hard on the gays and women who want abortions, but the country will survive. 

10 minutes ago, Gannan said:

I wouldn't say DeSantis has no chance. It's still early. I would put it at 80% Trump, 20% DeSantis. 

I just don't see a lane for him.  Is there broad appeal for a non-conservative/populist Republican not named Trump?  I could see an actual conservative catching hold (assuming any Republican voters still care about things like that) but DeSantis certainly isn't that. 

DeSantis's only path is literally out insulting Trump, taking him to the mat and wrestling his voters from his grip, and based on what I've seen from DeSantis on the stump, there's roughly a 0% chance of that happening.

https://www.politico.com/minutes/congress/05-18-2023/gops-first-biden-impeachment-move/

Quote

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene said Thursday that she will introduce articles of impeachment against President Joe Biden.

She'll have to figure out some sort of grounds for the impeachment but I'm sure she'll think of something.

38 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I mean, if it gets to PA and it's still competitive and just between those two.. yeah I guess DeSantis at least has a shot at being less bad. but the guy is a total d-bag. 

desantis has the best chance to beat trump. its not much mind you, but IMO any vote for any other candidate is a waste if you want to avoid that clown show again. 

35 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

DeSantis's only path is literally out insulting Trump, taking him to the mat and wrestling his voters from his grip, and based on what I've seen from DeSantis on the stump, there's roughly a 0% chance of that happening.

i'm willing to write insults for him. 

 

just sayin'

2 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

desantis has the best chance to beat trump. its not much mind you, but IMO any vote for any other candidate is a waste if you want to avoid that clown show again. 

100%.

20 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

https://www.politico.com/minutes/congress/05-18-2023/gops-first-biden-impeachment-move/

She'll have to figure out some sort of grounds for the impeachment but I'm sure she'll think of something.

The Georgia Republican said the articles would deal with Biden’s handling of border security, accusing him of an "absolute failure … to protect the states.”

17 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

The Georgia Republican said the articles would deal with Biden’s handling of border security, accusing him of an "absolute failure … to protect the states.”

Right.  Like I said, she'll have to find a reason.

55 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

I just don't see a lane for him.  Is there broad appeal for a non-conservative/populist Republican not named Trump?  I could see an actual conservative catching hold (assuming any Republican voters still care about things like that) but DeSantis certainly isn't that. 

DeSantis's only path is literally out insulting Trump, taking him to the mat and wrestling his voters from his grip, and based on what I've seen from DeSantis on the stump, there's roughly a 0% chance of that happening.

I think he's taking the right track (sort of). He's basically saying Trump is a loser, and because he's leading the party, its become a party of losers. He's not wrong, but he needs to hammer that message.

Just now, Gannan said:

I think he's taking the right track (sort of). He's basically saying Trump is a loser, and because he's leading the party, its become a party of losers. He's not wrong, but he needs to hammer that message.

That's a hard sell when most of the party still can't acknowledge that Trump lost.

Just now, VanHammersly said:

That's a hard sell when most of the party still can't acknowledge that Trump lost.

desantis got no rizz. 

21 minutes ago, Gannan said:

I think he's taking the right track (sort of). He's basically saying Trump is a loser, and because he's leading the party, its become a party of losers. He's not wrong, but he needs to hammer that message.

To beat Trump, you have to take him on directly. Trump voters are morons and want to vote for someone who entertains them. That's it. To beat Trump, you need someone entertaining with a magnetic personality.

That's not Ron.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

To beat Trump, you have to take him on directly. Trump voters are morons and want to vote for someone who entertains them. That's it. To beat Trump, you need someone entertaining with a magnetic personality.

That's not Ron.

I don't know that you want to take him on directly. I think you can be "Trump-like" from a charismatic point of view, and you have to stand mano-a-mano in any debates and not back down, but outside of the debate environment I think you can stay on message and compete if you can do the bread-and-circuses act. 

20 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I don't know that you want to take him on directly. I think you can be "Trump-like" from a charismatic point of view, and you have to stand mano-a-mano in any debates and not back down, but outside of the debate environment I think you can stay on message and compete if you can do the bread-and-circuses act. 

But you have to be an entertainer to win the crowd. DeSantis has zero personality. He won't be able to break through. 

You basically need the political equivalent of Vince McMahon to win this crowd over. If he were eligible, Arnold would be the right guy.

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

But you have to be an entertainer to win the crowd. DeSantis has zero personality. He won't be able to break through. 

You basically need the political equivalent of Vince McMahon to win this crowd over. If he were eligible, Arnold would be the right guy.

Oh I totally agree that DeSantis is DOA because of his lack of personality - I've been saying that here for months. 

What's crazy is that I could legitimately see Vince McMahon win the Republican nomination for President of the United States over Trump. I'm putting him on the short list of possibilities. 

3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Oh I totally agree that DeSantis is DOA because of his lack of personality - I've been saying that here for months. 

What's crazy is that I could legitimately see Vince McMahon win the Republican nomination for President of the United States over Trump. I'm putting him on the short list of possibilities. 

Vince and Don are friends, so that can't happen. At least Vince has an actually successful company.

If I were running, I'd go full attack mode. Just start calling Trump a loser and an imbecile. Point out that he's not a successful businessman, has failed at almost everything he has tried, and is basically an illiterate clown. Just full on attack and be willing to just keep going further. Even if Trump hits back harder, you're in the debate. You can't beat Trump by not engaging, and if you do engage, you have to go the full monty. That was the problem in 2016 -- none of them had any personality and when they did try to attack, they backed off when Trump punched back. 

Frankly, if the GOP were smart (spoiler alert, they're not), they'd encourage someone to run and attack Trump 24/7. That person wouldn't win, but they could draw Trump into ridiculous battles while DeSantis tries to skate by. Hell, I bet Liz Cheney would do it.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Vince and Don are friends, so that can't happen. At least Vince has an actually successful company.

If I were running, I'd go full attack mode. Just start calling Trump a loser and an imbecile. Point out that he's not a successful businessman, has failed at almost everything he has tried, and is basically an illiterate clown. Just full on attack and be willing to just keep going further. Even if Trump hits back harder, you're in the debate. You can't beat Trump by not engaging, and if you do engage, you have to go the full monty. That was the problem in 2016 -- none of them had any personality and when they did try to attack, they backed off when Trump punched back. 

Frankly, if the GOP were smart (spoiler alert, they're not), they'd encourage someone to run and attack Trump 24/7. That person wouldn't win, but they could draw Trump into ridiculous battles while DeSantis tries to skate by. Hell, I bet Liz Cheney would do it.

The reason I'm not sure running right at him would work is that his sycophantic base - the morons in the Republican base who currently control the nomination process - would just dig in harder and vote for the guy despite the attacks. At this point Trump and his allies have thrown out so much FUD nonsense - flooding the zone with **** - around even the things Trump is obviously guilty of that they believe he's innocent of anything he's accused of reflexively.

So I think anybody that runs at the guy has to be a sacrificial lamb. 

Liz would do it but she's already been sacrificed. Which is crazy considering the family history and her voting record, but whatever. 

As far as DeSantis goes, I think most republican voters outside of Florida like the idea of DeSantis; the problem is that when they see him in a presser or just a regular speaking gig he comes off like an unlikable d-bag.

Trump is a d-bag, but in a "fun, trolling the libs" kind of way. 

DeSantis just comes off like a nerd who is trying on Trump's act.

2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I think if he thought he could get away with it, he would absolutely try. Edit: If only to stay on brand. 

I don't think he would.  He isn't Trump.

5 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The reason I'm not sure running right at him would work is that his sycophantic base - the morons in the Republican base who currently control the nomination process - would just dig in harder and vote for the guy despite the attacks. At this point Trump and his allies have thrown out so much FUD nonsense - flooding the zone with **** - around even the things Trump is obviously guilty of that they believe he's innocent of anything he's accused of reflexively.

So I think anybody that runs at the guy has to be a sacrificial lamb. 

Liz would do it but she's already been sacrificed. Which is crazy considering the family history and her voting record, but whatever. 

As far as DeSantis goes, I think most republican voters outside of Florida like the idea of DeSantis; the problem is that when they see him in a presser or just a regular speaking gig he comes off like an unlikable d-bag.

Trump is a d-bag, but in a "fun, trolling the libs" kind of way. 

DeSantis just comes off like a nerd who is trying on Trump's act.

The sad reality is that the GOP is likely lost to the MAGA stupidity for good. And the Democratic party continues further left as well, especially among the younger members. So there is no place for reasonable people in government. Biden somehow remains the least terrible option.

11 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

If I were running, I'd go full attack mode. Just start calling Trump a loser and an imbecile. Point out that he's not a successful businessman, has failed at almost everything he has tried, and is basically an illiterate clown. Just full on attack and be willing to just keep going further. Even if Trump hits back harder, you're in the debate. You can't beat Trump by not engaging, and if you do engage, you have to go the full monty. That was the problem in 2016 -- none of them had any personality and when they did try to attack, they backed off when Trump punched back. 

I agree with this approach.  Treat Trump as a stupid has been pro wrestling champ/chump and you are the new king.  Take Trump down with the same stupid crap that he tries to pull on others but you're smarter than he is and he has nothing new up his sleeve.  Take shots at all the idiots around him like Rudy, Sydney Powell, and that bat crazy religious adviser he once had.  Trot out all the people who were on the inside and who now talk about how bad Trump was in the meetings where the country was being run.  Run ads like the Lincoln Project and show how all of his businesses go bankrupt and leave others with the bill.  Unmask his ignorance and call him a poosie who cows down to the likes of Putin.

11 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The reason I'm not sure running right at him would work is that his sycophantic base - the morons in the Republican base who currently control the nomination process - would just dig in harder and vote for the guy despite the attacks. At this point Trump and his allies have thrown out so much FUD nonsense - flooding the zone with **** - around even the things Trump is obviously guilty of that they believe he's innocent of anything he's accused of reflexively.

So I think anybody that runs at the guy has to be a sacrificial lamb. 

Liz would do it but she's already been sacrificed. Which is crazy considering the family history and her voting record, but whatever. 

As far as DeSantis goes, I think most republican voters outside of Florida like the idea of DeSantis; the problem is that when they see him in a presser or just a regular speaking gig he comes off like an unlikable d-bag.

Trump is a d-bag, but in a "fun, trolling the libs" kind of way. 

DeSantis just comes off like a nerd who is trying on Trump's act.

Yeah, he tries way too hard.  It's why I call him the Republican Kamala Harris.

3 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

I agree with this approach.  Treat Trump as a stupid has been pro wrestling champ/chump and you are the new king.  Take Trump down with the same stupid crap that he tries to pull on others but you're smarter than he is and he has nothing new up his sleeve.  Take shots at all the idiots around him like Rudy, Sydney Powell, and that bat crazy religious adviser he once had.  Trot out all the people who were on the inside and who now talk about how bad Trump was in the meetings where the country was being run.  Run ads like the Lincoln Project and show how all of his businesses go bankrupt and leave others with the bill.  Unmask his ignorance and call him a poosie who cows down to the likes of Putin.

Again, this assumes that rational appeals to his sycophantic base will work.

It's been proven time and again that they do not. 

You can't win with a reason-based argument, as much as to us it seems bafflingly obvious. 

It's frustrating to me. I look forward to retiring to some remote cabin away from idiots.