June 9, 20232 yr Just now, Alpha_TATEr said: romney's problem was he ran against obama. That too. Obama would've wiped the floor with Trump.
June 9, 20232 yr 18 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: That too. Obama would've wiped the floor with Trump. how long into the 1st debate would it take donny boy to drop a "you people" ....
June 9, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Alpha_TATEr said: romney's problem was he ran against obama. Yep, Romney deciding to run one election too early and Biden deciding to run one election too late is how we ended up with Trump in the first place.
June 9, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Alpha_TATEr said: romney's problem was he ran against obama. Fair. Wasting McCain and Romney as sacrificial lambs against a generational political talent was malpractice. Similar to Dole vs. Clinton in 1996 -- no one was beating Clinton in that economic climate. I wish they would have let Obama crush Rudy in 2008 and Santorum in 2012 -- nothing lost. Then run Romney in 2016.
June 9, 20232 yr 12 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Yep, Romney deciding to run one election too early and Biden deciding to run one election too late is how we ended up with Trump in the first place. Biden was a special circumstance with the death of Beau but Romney in '16 was pretty much par for the course. They all get in the minute there's an opening whether it's too soon or not, see DeSantis this year when he should of waited until '28.
June 9, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, vikas83 said: I still don't get why this man couldn't be President. The main attack against him was he made too much money. We are not a serious country. He wasn't tolerated by the GOP. After being head of a liberal state (the liberal state) he wasn't conservative enough for people who actually care nothing about conservatism.
June 9, 20232 yr 26 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: Biden was a special circumstance with the death of Beau but Romney in '16 was pretty much par for the course. They all get in the minute there's an opening whether it's too soon or not, see DeSantis this year when he should of waited until '28. Yep, just dumb and can't see the writing on the wall.
June 9, 20232 yr 26 minutes ago, Toastrel said: He wasn't tolerated by the GOP. After being head of a liberal state (the liberal state) he wasn't conservative enough for people who actually care nothing about conservatism. ??
June 9, 20232 yr 37 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Fair. Wasting McCain and Romney as sacrificial lambs against a generational political talent was malpractice. Similar to Dole vs. Clinton in 1996 -- no one was beating Clinton in that economic climate. I wish they would have let Obama crush Rudy in 2008 and Santorum in 2012 -- nothing lost. Then run Romney in 2016. Though with the benefit of hindsight, seeing how crowded the field was for 2016, it's possible Trump still comes away with the nomination even if Romney had held off in 2012 to run in 2016. The cult found their leader, and even Romney might not have been able to build enough support early on to stop him.
June 9, 20232 yr Author 39 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Fair. Wasting McCain and Romney as sacrificial lambs against a generational political talent was malpractice. Similar to Dole vs. Clinton in 1996 -- no one was beating Clinton in that economic climate. I wish they would have let Obama crush Rudy in 2008 and Santorum in 2012 -- nothing lost. Then run Romney in 2016. In 2008 I don't know that we knew enough about Obama to label him a generational talent, though anyone who saw him in 2004 would know how powerful his command was. But there's guys who are great orators who turn out to be mediocre campaigners. Obama turned out to be a great campaigner, but it took 2008 to really drive that home. In 2012 they were hoping they would be going against the weakened Obama from 2010, but campaigning Obama is the best Obama.
June 9, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Though with the benefit of hindsight, seeing how crowded the field was for 2016, it's possible Trump still comes away with the nomination even if Romney had held off in 2012 to run in 2016. The cult found their leader, and even Romney might not have been able to build enough support early on to stop him. This is where the weakness of the RNC leadership (Priebus, now McDaniel) comes into play. The DNC saw Sanders might get the nomination in 2020 and blow the election, and they put a stop to it and got people to consolidate around Biden. In 2016 Priebus needed to find someone to be the primary Trump antagonist. The problem was Priebus is a wimp and all of the candidates (Bush, Rubio, Cruz, Kasich) thought they should be the guy.
June 9, 20232 yr Author 5 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Though with the benefit of hindsight, seeing how crowded the field was for 2016, it's possible Trump still comes away with the nomination even if Romney had held off in 2012 to run in 2016. The cult found their leader, and even Romney might not have been able to build enough support early on to stop him. That's my growing concern in 2024. The Republican field needs to thin out early enough so that it's Trump and someone else who at least has a chance to topple him. I have no idea who that someone else might possibly be.
June 9, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said: In 2008 I don't know that we knew enough about Obama to label him a generational talent, though anyone who saw him in 2004 would know how powerful his command was. But there's guys who are great orators who turn out to be mediocre campaigners. Obama turned out to be a great campaigner, but it took 2008 to really drive that home. In 2012 they were hoping they would be going against the weakened Obama from 2010, but campaigning Obama is the best Obama. In 2008 the economy was in freefall under Bush. Reagan wasn't winning on a GOP ticket in 2008.
June 9, 20232 yr 8 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: ?? Romney was governor of Massachusetts, had his own RomneyCare - had to be liberal for that job. Made him hard to swallow for the rank and file. Plus, the Mormon thing, which many Christians find weird.
June 9, 20232 yr Author 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: In 2008 the economy was in freefall under Bush. Reagan wasn't winning on a GOP ticket in 2008. Yeah but the economic crisis wasn't in full focus until McCain was already the de facto nominee. I agree it's unfortunate that McCain didn't get a better shot, but in truth 2008 was the last shot the guy might possibly have had. He was in no shape to challenge in 2016, and passed by 2018.
June 9, 20232 yr Just now, JohnSnowsHair said: Yeah but the economic crisis wasn't in full focus until McCain was already the de facto nominee. I agree it's unfortunate that McCain didn't get a better shot, but in truth 2008 was the last shot the guy might possibly have had. He was in no shape to challenge in 2016, and passed by 2018. The shame is that McCain wasn't the nominee in 2000. Also, McCain clinched the nomination in early March 2008. By that time, Bear Stearns and Countrywide were collapsing, and the S&P was already down 14% off the highs. Clearly it got much worse, but credit markets were screwed in summer 2007 when the first tranche of Bear sub-prime CMBS was downgraded. We were working on a bankruptcy financing exit, and we went from 3 committed term sheets to none in the blink of an eye that summer. Luckily, we were able to basically shame Barclays into doing the loan.
June 9, 20232 yr Author 8 minutes ago, vikas83 said: The shame is that McCain wasn't the nominee in 2000. Also, McCain clinched the nomination in early March 2008. By that time, Bear Stearns and Countrywide were collapsing, and the S&P was already down 14% off the highs. Clearly it got much worse, but credit markets were screwed in summer 2007 when the first tranche of Bear sub-prime CMBS was downgraded. We were working on a bankruptcy financing exit, and we went from 3 committed term sheets to none in the blink of an eye that summer. Luckily, we were able to basically shame Barclays into doing the loan. I agree with that, I just think McCain was already all-in and by March 2008 the guy can't pull out. In 2007 things started to roll downhill, but the S&P didn't truly crash until what, August 2008? 14% was nothing compared to where it ended up by the time November rolled around. 2000 was his best shot of winning a general, 2008 was unfortunately his last shot at all. I still give McCain a ton of credit for standing up against the worst elements of the right when they started trying to really slime Obama. Trump just fans that crap, bringing the whole country down to his level.
June 9, 20232 yr 12m Americans believe violence is justified to restore Trump to power https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/09/january-6-trump-political-violence-survey 12 million traitorous pieces of filth, unworthy of their citizenship.
June 9, 20232 yr 18 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Massachusetts 14 minutes ago, Toastrel said: Romney was governor of Massachusetts, had his own RomneyCare - had to be liberal for that job. Made him hard to swallow for the rank and file. Plus, the Mormon thing, which many Christians find weird. Don't think I knew he even was gov of Mass. Thought it was in reference to California when I saw "The liberal state".
June 9, 20232 yr 24 minutes ago, Toastrel said: Plus, the Mormon thing, which many Christians find weird. Magic pajamas! The binders of women thing didn't help either I suppose. Still think he would've been a good president. Sucks that we have a country of morons who shun decent candidates even when they are willing to take the job.
June 9, 20232 yr 4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Magic pajamas! The binders of women thing didn't help either I suppose. Still think he would've been a good president. Sucks that we have a country of morons who shun decent candidates even when they are willing to take the job. It is really strange, but in my experience, Catholics and Mormons, get the stink eye from the bible belt.
June 9, 20232 yr 26 minutes ago, vikas83 said: The shame is that McCain wasn't the nominee in 2000. Also, McCain clinched the nomination in early March 2008. By that time, Bear Stearns and Countrywide were collapsing, and the S&P was already down 14% off the highs. Clearly it got much worse, but credit markets were screwed in summer 2007 when the first tranche of Bear sub-prime CMBS was downgraded. We were working on a bankruptcy financing exit, and we went from 3 committed term sheets to none in the blink of an eye that summer. Luckily, we were able to basically shame Barclays into doing the loan. I believe McCain would have been President in 2000. And we wouldn't even have known what a hanging chad is! In the end, I don't see much of a difference in foreign policy (War on Terror) and the financial mess(2007-2009 Recession)... But I imagine the 2000s would have been ran much smoother. Could you imagine McCain in office on 9/11? But maybe it is better off for his Maverick legacy he didn't have to be President for all of that. Anyway, the 2008 candidates and 2012 candidates on both sides are better than what we got to choose from in 2016 and 2020.
June 9, 20232 yr 7 minutes ago, Toastrel said: It is really strange, but in my experience, Catholics and Mormons, get the stink eye from the bible belt. I know a lot of Catholics who'd frown at the thought of being lumped in with Mormons but I know what you mean. We Christians, as a whole, can be a judgy bunch, especially with other denominations.
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