4 hours ago, Tweek said:

Lols

 

 

Common sense should tell you that seeing the end of the flat earth can make you go blind.

4 hours ago, Tweek said:

Lols

 

 

But I thought 1/6 was just a bunch of tourists and those in jail are being persecuted...flat out admits what the goal of 1/6:

Yes, let's just have a violent revolt every time we don't win an election. Just like the founding fathers intended, and Jesus would want. 

Woman sentenced to prison for stealing and selling Biden’s daughter’s diary

Aimee Harris of Florida sold Ashley Biden’s diary to conservative group Project Veritas in actions judge called ‘despicable’

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/09/biden-diary-project-veritas-sentenced

Instead of the deplorables, the despicables is appropriate for today's GOP

 

 

59 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

 

 

The comparison to PPP loans is utterly disingenuous and ridiculous. When PPP loans were approved by Congress and initiated, they were designed to be forgiven if certain conditions were met (keeping employees mainly). So when people took PPP loans, the loan agreement incorporated the forgiveness of the loan. It was part of the deal at the time you borrowed the money. There is no such mechanism in student loans. 

Every time the left tries to make this "point," they just look stupid. But since most of the country is stupid, it's probably good politics. 

4 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

The comparison to PPP loans is utterly disingenuous and ridiculous. When PPP loans were approved by Congress and initiated, they were designed to be forgiven if certain conditions were met (keeping employees mainly). So when people took PPP loans, the loan agreement incorporated the forgiveness of the loan. It was part of the deal at the time you borrowed the money. There is no such mechanism in student loans. 

Every time the left tries to make this "point," they just look stupid. But since most of the country is stupid, it's probably good politics. 

Her words. If you take out a loan, you pay it back.

That's pretty clear.

13 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

Her words. If you take out a loan, you pay it back.

That's pretty clear.

Yeah, poor choice of words.  She should have said "you abide by the terms of the loan".

29 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

The comparison to PPP loans is utterly disingenuous and ridiculous. When PPP loans were approved by Congress and initiated, they were designed to be forgiven if certain conditions were met (keeping employees mainly). So when people took PPP loans, the loan agreement incorporated the forgiveness of the loan. It was part of the deal at the time you borrowed the money. There is no such mechanism in student loans. 

Every time the left tries to make this "point," they just look stupid. But since most of the country is stupid, it's probably good politics. 

Most of the people that have had their student loans forgiven have already already paid back the amount they took out and then some (in a lot of cases, exponentially more than the amount they were loaned), they just had the interest they were drowning in forgiven.  I'd be curious how much of the PPP this woman's husband paid back before it was forgiven.

40 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

The comparison to PPP loans is utterly disingenuous and ridiculous. When PPP loans were approved by Congress and initiated, they were designed to be forgiven if certain conditions were met (keeping employees mainly). So when people took PPP loans, the loan agreement incorporated the forgiveness of the loan. It was part of the deal at the time you borrowed the money. There is no such mechanism in student loans. 

Every time the left tries to make this "point," they just look stupid. But since most of the country is stupid, it's probably good politics. 

Weren't some of these student loans given under similar conditions of forgiveness if you worked X many years in the public sector (e.g. as a teacher)? Not sure if it was literally spelled out in the contract terms like it was for PPP, but my neighbor works in the neuropsych dept at a university and he said he took out his grad school loan knowing it would be forgiven after 10 years if he worked for a school/college for that period of time.

49 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Yeah, poor choice of words.  She should have said "you abide by the terms of the loan".

Exactly. If she had used different words, she wouldn't be a huge hypocrite.

2 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

Exactly. If she had used different words, she wouldn't be a huge hypocrite.

I suppose so though if she put out a new tweet and said that is what she meant I'd be inclined to believe her.

33 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Weren't some of these student loans given under similar conditions of forgiveness if you worked X many years in the public sector (e.g. as a teacher)? Not sure if it was literally spelled out in the contract terms like it was for PPP, but my neighbor works in the neuropsych dept at a university and he said he took out his grad school loan knowing it would be forgiven after 10 years if he worked for a school/college for that period of time.

I have no issue with those loans being forgiven. And I actually think some of these are a good idea (e.g., teaching at a lower income public school). But those terms are agreed at the time the loan is taken, not after the fact.

Loan documents are a contract that both sides should honor.

1 hour ago, Toastrel said:

Her words. If you take out a loan, you pay it back.

That's pretty clear.

Her being stupid isn't a reason to be stupid in response. PPP loans were forgivable loans by design. 

44 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Most of the people that have had their student loans forgiven have already already paid back the amount they took out and then some (in a lot of cases, exponentially more than the amount they were loaned), they just had the interest they were drowning in forgiven.  I'd be curious how much of the PPP this woman's husband paid back before it was forgiven.

That's not how a loan works. You pay the interest at the contract rate and the principal. Don't like it, don't take the loan. Just because you borrowed $100,000 and made $100,000 in payments doesn't mean you've fulfilled the contract. Given the time value of money and inherent cost of borrowing, you are stealing if you simply pay back principal with no interest. 

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

I have no issue with those loans being forgiven. And I actually think some of these are a good idea (e.g., teaching at a lower income public school). But those terms are agreed at the time the loan is taken, not after the fact.

Loan documents are a contract that both sides should honor.

I mean, it's a meme so we have no context as to what types of loans Karen is complaining about but as far as I know, most of the "cancellation" headlines from the Biden admin were under existing programs like the ones for working in the public sector. The others that went beyond the bounds of the existing programs were shot down by the courts from what I recall, but I haven't been following everything that closely, so I could be wrong.

Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

I mean, it's a meme so we have no context as to what types of loans Karen is complaining about but as far as I know, most of the "cancellation" headlines from the Biden admin were under existing programs like the ones for working in the public sector. The others that went beyond the bounds of the existing programs were shot down by the courts from what I recall, but I haven't been following everything that closely, so I could be wrong.

Some of them were the ones that are cancellable, but most have been him pushing the limits of executive authority to cancel debt that was not forgivable per the contract. And of course, his larger blanket forgiveness, which is what the left wants, was struck down by the courts. 

But I was mainly talking about the use of PPP loans as a comparison to standard (non-forgivable) student loans, which is generally how the left uses it.

It's this one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2024/04/05/pslf-loan-forgiveness-changes-studentaidgov/ 

The PSLF program, created in 2007, cancels the remaining loan balance of borrowers who work in certain nonprofit or government jobs for 10 years and make 120 monthly debt payments.

Edit: this sounds like the program HE got his canceled for because he taped ankles and dished out bandaids for his local high school for 10 years.

 

 

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

That's not how a loan works. You pay the interest at the contract rate and the principal. Don't like it, don't take the loan. Just because you borrowed $100,000 and made $100,000 in payments doesn't mean you've fulfilled the contract. Given the time value of money and inherent cost of borrowing, you are stealing if you simply pay back principal with no interest. 

Yeah, I know how they work.  I'm not claiming that forgiving them early is sticking to the terms of the original contract (although in a lot of cases, like WGB is posting about, they are sticking to the original contract).  But regardless they're paying back a lot more of what was borrowed (and then some) than the PPP bowers did, which makes the argument that the right likes to scream about ("I'm paying for your feminist studies degree!!!") pretty stupid when they don't seem to care that they're getting completely stiffed on the PPP money.

Yeah this program sounds like it was bad policy too, as there's no cap to the amount forgiven. 

https://www.nea.org/your-rights-workplace/student-debt-support/faqs#:~:text=There is no limit to,%2C %24100%2C000%2C and even more.

HOW MANY LOANS CAN BE FORGIVEN? IS THERE A LIMIT ON THE DOLLAR AMOUNT THAT CAN BE FORGIVEN?

There is no limit to how much can be forgiven by PSLF.  The program forgives the remaining balance of your federal student debt after 10 years of service and 120 payments to your federal student loans. We have seen NEA members receive on loans with balances of $20,000, $100,000, and even more.

2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Yeah, I know how they work.  I'm not claiming that forgiving them early is sticking to the terms of the original contract (although in a lot of cases, like WGB is posting about, they are sticking to the original contract).  But regardless they're paying back a lot more of what was borrowed (and then some) than the PPP bowers did, which makes the argument that the right likes to scream about ("I'm paying for your feminist studies degree!!!") pretty stupid when they don't seem to care that they're getting completely stiffed on the PPP money.

Except the PPP loans were designed to be forgiven. Now if you want to argue we shouldn't have passed the legislation and made forgivable loans, that's a different argument. And if you're accusing people of fraud (not meeting the conditions for forgiveness, taking out too large a loan, etc.), then I'm all ears. But complaining that people got loans forgiven per the contract terms is completely disingenuous. No one got "stiffed" on the loans because there was no expectation they were going to be paid back. [Yes, there was tons of fraud in PPP, and that all should be prosecuted].

It's a stupid argument and false equivalency advanced by people that should hopefully know better.

6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Except the PPP loans were designed to be forgiven. Now if you want to argue we shouldn't have passed the legislation and made forgivable loans, that's a different argument. And if you're accusing people of fraud (not meeting the conditions for forgiveness, taking out too large a loan, etc.), then I'm all ears. But complaining that people got loans forgiven per the contract terms is completely disingenuous. No one got "stiffed" on the loans because there was no expectation they were going to be paid back. [Yes, there was tons of fraud in PPP, and that all should be prosecuted].

It's a stupid argument and false equivalency advanced by people that should hopefully know better.

But as a point of fact, we paid for these PPP loans.  And we were never paid back.  The same cannot be said for the vast majority of the student loans.  In fact, we made a lot of money on them.