Just now, JohnSnowsHair said:

ICE escalated.

The officer should be arrested.

Did you click on that link and look at a vid that hasn't been posted here yet?

7 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

They're not targeting violent criminals, they're targeting anybody they can - up to and including people who have been naturalized.

This sure looks like an illegal violent criminal, if you are retarded.

2 hours ago, Blazehound said:

She only has herself to blame here. It’s a sad situation, but she had a massive lapse in judgement, which she intentionally put herself into, which cost her life.

We created a constitution with the explicit intent of constructing a government that the people did not need to live in fear of.

When the state takes actions that attempts to flip that, I'm not going to blame innocent citizens fleeing in fear from overzealous agents of the state for being the victims of murder.

The state has made a choice to flood communities with poorly trained agents with no impulse control, and conditioned these same agents to view every citizen as a possible "illegal" regardless of whether they possess any evidence that even meets probable cause thresholds.

Blaming the woman in this scenario is ridiculous on its face.

10 hours ago, DEagle7 said:

No he won't. Officers have a lot of legal coverage at baseline, but regardless even if he was convicted do you think there is any chance in hell Trump wouldn't try to make it a federal case and just pardon the guy? He's gonna walk.

I honestly hope they give the dude a medal of some kind.

Just now, JohnSnowsHair said:

We created a constitution with the explicit intent of constructing a government that the people did not need to live in fear of.

When the state takes actions that attempts to flip that, I'm not going to blame innocent citizens fleeing in fear from overzealous agents of the state for being the victims of murder.

The state has made a choice to flood communities with poorly trained agents with no impulse control, and conditioned these same agents to view every citizen as a possible "illegal" regardless of whether they possess any evidence that even meets probable cause thresholds.

Blaming the woman in this scenario is ridiculous on its face.

This dude always has a mental breakdown when leftist insurrectionists get what they paid for. Riot Kitchen is back!

No you definitely can't blame the person who intentionally interfered with armed federal agents and then rapidly accelerated toward one when she was being apprehended. Leftists really do have their brains go to complete mush when the tv says something to them. Hilarious.

11 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Did you click on that link and look at a vid that hasn't been posted here yet?

The one I quoted? I believe I've looked at every video posted in this thread, multiple angles available. In every one it's clear that while the one agent is in the front left of the vehicle is in the path if she chooses to go straight, her wheel is turned right to avoid. At most the car grazes the agent when - if she actually had any intentions of running him over she easily could have - she's just attempting to get out of there.

They had no cause to suspect her of being an "illegal".

The truth is that Miller has done the calculus, and believes that if a few innocent Americans getting killed is the cost of getting rid of immigrants, well that's just a cost he's willing to pay.

18 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

That's the gray area. What should he "know" at that critical moment that last less than a second or two.

There’s no gray area. It’s black and white. Read the snippet from handbook. It’s simple, move out of the way. Do not shoot.

2 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The truth is that Miller has done the calculus, and believes that if a few innocent Americans getting killed is the cost of getting rid of immigrants, well that's just a cost he's willing to pay.

They welcome and invite the extracurricular violence. They don't want just immigrants scared, they want everybody scared, all the way through elections and beyond.

Please do Kyle, I wanna see you cry and piss your pants on the stand again you giant piece of crap.

2 minutes ago, DBW said:

Please do Kyle, I wanna see you cry and piss your pants on the stand again you giant piece of crap.

Yeah, but he did manage to kill or disfigure two women abusers and a convicted pedophile in such a short period of time. That was freakin awesome.

14 minutes ago, Kz! said:

This dude always has a mental breakdown when leftist insurrectionists get what they paid for.

20 minutes ago, Lambo said:

This sure looks like an illegal violent criminal, if you are retarded.

Sure looks like an insurrectionist to me. Listening to interviews with the local community, she was returning home from dropping her 6 year old off at school.

I'd like to know how the whole situation started and WHY ICE continues to harass US citizens.

If a federal agent pulled me over or I was in some sort of check point, I would certainly comply. Then, I would ask him/her to take off his mask and identify himself properly- show them my identification and they very well better let me be on my way. Why were they demanding she exit her vehicle? I'm not getting out, but I surely wouldn't try to hurt anyone either. Very sad and I think ICE is acting over the amount of authority they are allowed. Reason why local cops won't help them. Time to re-think the whole thing. Haven't they deported enough criminals yet?

43 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Yeah sure but that doesn't exonerate him.

When he discharged his first round, the vehicle was moving towards him. Once that decision is made your brain goes into autopilot. Even with firing three rounds, he still discharged less than the modern average per officer per incident round count.

Were there fifty million other things he could have done? You betcha. Do any of those fifty million things make this definitively not a legal use of force? Absolutely not.

It's shaky as F in the first place, but its leaning more towards legal than illegal.

38 minutes ago, DBW said:

Regarding the self defense defense:

"and no other objectively reasonable means of defense appear to exist, which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle.”

Even if she posed an immediate threat to the officer who was stupidly standing in front of the vehicle, shooting her would be a last resort, way down the list behind moving out of the way.

Policy =/= law.

Just now, DBW said:

There’s no gray area. It’s black and white. Read the snippet from handbook. It’s simple, move out of the way. Do not shoot.

The snippet allows for self defense. To me it is manslaughter but I recognize the timing and situational uncertainty that existed. It should be clearly investigated and reviewed. In any case, there was no intent to injure the agent on her part. Also, the continued firing of the gun is certainly a total violation and illegal.

5 minutes ago, Lambo said:

Sure looks like an insurrectionist to me. Listening to interviews with the local community, she was returning home from dropping her 6 year old off at school.

Everyone knows the real violent insurrectionists look like this:

4 minutes ago, DiPros said:

I'd like to know how the whole situation started and WHY ICE continues to harass US citizens.

If a federal agent pulled me over or I was in some sort of check point, I would certainly comply. Then, I would ask him/her to take off his mask and identify himself properly- show them my identification and they very well better let me be on my way. Why were they demanding she exit her vehicle? I'm not getting out, but I surely wouldn't try to hurt anyone either. Very sad and I think ICE is acting over the amount of authority they are allowed. Reason why local cops won't help them. Time to re-think the whole thing. Haven't they deported enough criminals yet?

You're way behind on the story. She was actively interfering with their operations. She was literally using her car to block them to prevent them from carrying their jobs.

3 minutes ago, Bill said:

When he discharged his first round, the vehicle was moving towards him. Once that decision is made your brain goes into autopilot. Even with firing three rounds, he still discharged less than the modern average per officer per incident round count.

Were there fifty million other things he could have done? You betcha. Do any of those fifty million things make this definitively not a legal use of force? Absolutely not.

It's shaky as F in the first place, but its leaning more towards legal than illegal.

Im not a licensed attorney but I feel quite certain the 2nd and 3rd shots are illegal even if they can be explained as "understandable”.

Are you suggesting he has an insanity plea on the follow up shots?

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

The snippet allows for self defense. To me it is manslaughter but I recognize the timing and situational uncertainty that existed. It should be clearly investigated and reviewed. In any case, there was no intent to injure the agent on her part. Also, the continued firing of the gun is certainly a total violation and illegal.

It's pretty well-known at this point that when officers pull and fire their weapon, they generally dump every single bullet in the clip because of adrenaline. This is discussed literally every single time there's a high-profile police shooting, but libtards selectively forget (or have brain disease) because they love running with this narrative.

Just now, DrPhilly said:

Im not a licensed attorney but I feel quite certain the 2nd and 3rd shots are illegal even if they can be explained as "understandable”.

A lot of that will come down to how things are articulated. Point I'm trying to make is that, yes, while the second and third shots don't look good, the second and third shots in and of themselves don't necessarily signal anything.

It's a lot different looking at it third person than looking at it first person. I've only been in a similar situation twice going on a decade and a half ago, but I still remember exactly what it felt like, and it looks and feels a lot different depending on which person your POV is from.

The bigger overarching problem is that things shouldn't have gotten to this point anyway, and what we're looking at is a symptom of the overall.

32 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

We created a constitution with the explicit intent of constructing a government that the people did not need to live in fear of.

When the state takes actions that attempts to flip that, I'm not going to blame innocent citizens fleeing in fear from overzealous agents of the state for being the victims of murder.

The state has made a choice to flood communities with poorly trained agents with no impulse control, and conditioned these same agents to view every citizen as a possible "illegal" regardless of whether they possess any evidence that even meets probable cause thresholds.

Blaming the woman in this scenario is ridiculous on its face.

This, IMO, is the problem.

2 minutes ago, Bill said:

A lot of that will come down to how things are articulated. Point I'm trying to make is that, yes, while the second and third shots don't look good, the second and third shots in and of themselves don't necessarily signal anything.

It's a lot different looking at it third person than looking at it first person. I've only been in a similar situation twice going on a decade and a half ago, but I still remember exactly what it felt like, and it looks and feels a lot different depending on which person your POV is from.

The bigger overarching problem is that things shouldn't have gotten to this point anyway, and what we're looking at is a symptom of the overall.

Yes I agree but I’m speaking about it from a legal perspective. One can do something that is humanely understandable but at the same time be illegal. The guy was under pressure in a high anxiety situation and he made a mistake. Also, I agree the overall situation is the more important thing.

5 minutes ago, Bill said:

This, IMO, is the problem.

Agree 1000%

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

Yes I agree but I’m speaking about it from a legal perspective. One can do something that is humanely understandable but at the same time be illegal. The guy was under pressure in a high anxiety situation and he made a mistake. Also, I agree the overall situation is the more important thing.

I think if there was a prosecutable offense, it would be manslaughter, but even then it would be tricky.

I'm not sure what relevant federal statutes there are and what the elements of those statutes would be, since I only dealt with and cared about PA's crime code, but using the latter as a frame of reference.