8 hours ago, Green Dog said:

No agenda??  He's basically explaining how the states that are about to explode could all have avoided it had it been made a law to wear freakin masks from the beginning. 

Like every other country on the planet....

Yes. No political agenda. 

1 hour ago, Smokesdawg said:

Yes. No political agenda. 

Sorry, if you wear a mask you are a socialism loving liberal. I’m a real American like the president. No masks for me!!!! If we let them make us wear mask what’s next???? Giving them our guns???? Letting a death panel kill our grandparents? No thank you. Thank god the dear leader is here to protect me from the tyranny of masks.

11,148 new Fl cases. 
 

From the beginning of testing it took until June 22nd to pass 100k positive tests. From June 23 to July 4 we had 90k.

16 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

What explains the 1/10? 

Gas station liquor 

6 hours ago, Smokesdawg said:

Yes. No political agenda. 

So who exactly is the phrase, "... we've failed to manage it with mis-step after mis-step since the beginning" aimed at then??

In your opinion?

2 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

11,148 new Fl cases. 
 

From the beginning of testing it took until June 22nd to pass 100k positive tests. From June 23 to July 4 we had 90k.

Heard that some mayors in southern Fla have gone against the governor and enforced mandated mask wearing and 0 access to beaches.

Somebody's gotta stop the stupidity.

2 minutes ago, Green Dog said:

So who exactly is the phrase, "... we've failed to manage it with mis-step after mis-step since the beginning" aimed at then??

In your opinion?

It's definitely aimed at Trump and government

The thing is even if Trump or local and state politicians gave the stay at home order or even wear a mask order earlier I still doubt majority of Americans would listen

Never seen so many adults pull a kid version of doing the opposite of what you tell them.

1 minute ago, Mike030270 said:

It's definitely aimed at Trump and government

The thing is even if Trump or local and state politicians gave the stay at home order or even wear a mask order earlier I still doubt majority of Americans would listen

Never seen so many adults pull a kid version of doing the opposite of what you tell them.

Nah, I disagree.  It absolutely would have helped because while NYC and Wash. state were blowing up, the rest of the country wouldn't have been ignoring it as if it wouldn't affect them.

And the people not wearing masks are doing so because the president doesn't wear a mask.  That's why everyone at the protests were wearing masks.

As the tweet said, mis-step after mis-step.

39 minutes ago, Green Dog said:

Heard that some mayors in southern Fla have gone against the governor and enforced mandated mask wearing and 0 access to beaches.

Somebody's gotta stop the stupidity.

Yep. Governor is doing jack ish, and anything being done is at a County level. Some restaurants/bars/clubs choosing to just temporarily close on their own. 0 leadership. 

Warning lights are flashing down at quality control.
Somebody threw a spanner, they threw him in the hole.
There's rumors in the loading bay and anger in the town.
Somebody blew the whistle, and the walls came down.

There's a meeting in the boardroom,
They're trying to trace the smell.
There's leaking in the washroom,
There's a sneak in personnel.

Somewhere in the corridors,
Someone was heard to sneeze.
Goodness me
Could this be
Industrial disease?

The caretaker was crucified for sleeping at his post.
Refusing to be pacified, it's him they blame the most.
The watchdog's got rabies, the foreman's got fleas.
Everyone's concerned about industrial disease.

There's panic on the switchboard, tongues in knots.
Some come out in sympathy, some come out in spots.
Some blame the management, some the employees.
Everybody knows it's the industrial disease.

Yeah, and now the work force is disgusted, downs tools and walks.
Innocence is injured, experience just talks.
Everyone seeks damages, everyone agrees
That these are "classic symptoms of a monetary squeeze".

On ITV and BBC they talk about the curse.
Philosophy is useless, theology is worse.
History boils over there's an economics freeze.
Sociologists invent words that mean "industrial disease".

Doctor Parkinson declared, "I'm not surprised to see you here.
You've got smokers cough from smoking, brewer's droop from drinking beer.
I don't know how you came to get the Betty Davis knees,
But worst of all, young man, you've got industrial disease."

He wrote me a prescription he said, "You are depressed.
I'm glad you came to see me to get this off your chest.
Come back and see me later. Next patient, please.
Send in another victim of industrial disease."

Oh, splendid.

I go down to speaker's corner. I'm thunderstruck.
They got free speech, tourists, police in trucks.
Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong.
There's a protest singer, he's singing a protest song.
He says,

"They wanna have a war to keep their factories.
They wanna have a war to keep us on our knees.
They wanna have a war to stop us buying Japanese.
They wanna have a war to stop industrial disease.

They're pointing out the enemy to keep you deaf and blind.
They wanna sap your energy, incarcerate your mind.
Give you "Rule Britannia", gassy beer, page three.
Two weeks in España and Sunday striptease."

Meanwhile, the first Jesus says, "I'd cure it soon.
Abolish Monday mornings and Friday afternoons."
The other one's on a hunger strike, he's dying by degrees
How come Jesus gets industrial disease?

Delayed update, this was from 6/28.

https://www.nothingbutthetruthmd.com/2020/07/62820-covid-19-update.html?m=1

LIBERTIES

 

History cannot be rewritten, it is the unique aggregate of time and events.  These last four months have created many events that will be of historic interest.. The management (or mismanagement, whichever you prefer) of Covid-19 transmission will befuddle many.  The thoughtless behavior of the high school and college football coaches will be equally puzzling.  They inexplicably ignore the risk of Covid-19 transmission to the young men they lead.  Like so many ostrich with heads in the sand.  Individuals, who should have sense enough to understand the science and ignore the partisan politics, so as not to risk the health of their players.

 

Liberties are used by the anti science folks to rationalize their reckless behavior.  It is these same liberties that have made the US special.  We are special enough to lead the world in Covid-19 cases, Covid-19 deaths and will also make the special list of nations banned from travel.  The US will be one of the special countries where testing of antivirals will be taking place because of the continued large number of new cases.

 

For any pharmaceutical intervention for Covid-19 to be effective, the cooperation of the populace to accept the intervention. will be a requisite.  Many of our leaders have embraced negative freedom when it relates to mitigating the spread of Covid-19.  Will these same leaders and the antiscience governors awaiting pharmaceutical intervention with great anticipation remain negative libertarians or will the potential promise of pharmaceutical intervention suddenly cause a turn to the positive libertarian view?  More is known of the effects of mitigation than will be known of the effects of pharmaceuticals. The efficacy will certainly be no greater than distancing and wearing masks but the costs will be significantly higher....?

 

The death, disease and adverse economic impact that has resulted from the lack of mandated and enforced mitigation (wearing masks and distancing) deserves justice.  Justice would be best served by removing those Governors, who by their disinterest and lack of action, are most responsible for this debacle.  Governors Ducey, Abbott and DeSantis merit special regard for their callous disregard for the welfare of the citizens of their states.  These men, and others like them, have a contemptible disregard for a simple scientific message, they have failed to mold a needed consensus, they have failed to prepare the people for what needs to be done.  They own this current crisis, threatening the health and welfare of the country, which was predictable.

 

While all Americans should be singularly focused on the Covid-19 crisis, we are distracted by rich men who want to put on games, baseball owners blinded by greed, talking of fans in the stands, College Deans, who have shamed themselves by going along with this folly, allowing many fall sports.  For the good of their students?  I think not!  All, are placing young men (and women), playing in stadiums, like gladiators, to sacrifice their health for the profits of others.

 

There is one simple message, with very few exceptions: IF "IT" CANNOT BE DONE WHILE DISTANCING OR WEARING A MASK "IT" SHOULD NOT BE DONE.  AMERICANS NEED TO WAKE UP, THE COUNTRY IS CIRCLING THE DRAIN!

 

 

POTENT NEUTRALIZING ANTIBODIES

Presentation by Dr. Xiao Liang Sunney Xie, Professor in Immunogenics.

June 18, 2020

One of the contributing authors of the paper, POTENT NEUTRALIZING ANTIBODIES AGAINST SARS-CoV-2 IDENTIFIED BY HIGH-THROUGHPUT SINGLE-CELL SEQUENCING OF CONVALESCENT PATIENT'S B CELLS

Cell, May 17 2020

 

Convalescent Plasma obtained from patients who have recovered from Covid-19 is known to contain antibodies to the virus. There are many types of antibodies and some of these antibodies are referred to as neutralizing antibodies of which there are also many. Some neutralizing antibodies will bind to the spike protein on the surface of the virus which allows (absent the antibody) the virus to enter the host cell. Similar to SARS CoV the spike (s) glycoprotein on the surface of the SARS-CoV-2 mediates membrane fusion and receptor recognition of the virus. Both virus belong to the lineage B of the betacoronavirus genus and their RNA genomes share about 82% identity. The S1 subunit at the N-terminal region is responsible for virus attachment and contains the receptor binding domain (RBD) which directly binds to the ACE 2 receptor on the host cell. 

 

In the 70's, when structure activity relationships and receptor theory where in their infancy, INDERAL, one of the first beta blockers, hit the market.  Beta receptors in the heart, when stimulated, cause the heart to accelerate and pump harder.  INDERAL had an affinity for this beta receptor but did not stimulate the receptor when bound to it, and by occupying the receptor prevented  stimulants from binding to it , thus preventing  harder and faster contractions. Beneficial to individuals with hypertension or heart rates that were too rapid. Similar to this, certain unique antibodies have an affinity for the spike protein on the virus and when attached to it, (binding to it) prevent it from attaching to the ACE 2 receptor on our cells (we are the host) preventing infection.

 

Antibodies produced in cattle in 2018 performed well in the first phase of clinical trials against MERS but infections dropped, preventing further study.  Ebola monoclonal antibodies have been approved by the FDA and are in clinical trial.  Because the number of infections is small clinical trials will take a very long time.

 

Convalescent plasma which contains neutralizing antibodies has led to clear clinical improvement of both mild and severe Covid-19 patients when used as a therapeutic modality.  These studies are small and really represent case reports and do not offer evidence based proof of efficacy. (similar to the early enthusiasm and reports of hydroxychloroquine)

 

For those interested in reading more on the clinical history of monoclonal antibodies I refer you to THE LANCET INFECTIOUS DISEASE -  CONVALESCENT PLASMA AS A POTENTIAL TREATMENT FOR COVID-19,  April 2020.

 

In a paper published in JAMA in March 27,2020 Convalescent plasma was  administered to five critically ill patients between day 10 and day 20 and all five patients recovered.  Again, this was an uncontrolled case report.  When this study was performed, it was not known that viable virus was not culturable after day 8 of clinical symptoms.  If treatment was given between days 10 and 20, and in fact benefited the patients, it did not occur through inhibition of virus entry into the host cell.  There should not have been live virus in the system at that time.

 

Treatment with convalescent plasma is limited since it cannot be produced in large scale.

 

Neutralizing monoclonal antibodies (mABs) isolated from convalescent patient's memory B cells serve as a promising intervention to SARS-CoV-2 due to their scalability.

 

Previous to the authors work, screening for potent mABs from human memory B cells was often slow and laborious, which is not ideal for responding to a world wide health emergency.

 

Using High-Throughput Single-Cell sequencing (although the paper is written in English and describes this unique process developed by the authors in detail, I must admit it was WAY beyond my pay grade) they are able to dramatically speed up the process.

 

Over 8500 antibody-binding B cell clonotypes expressing immunoglobulin G1 (IgG1) were identified from 60 convalescent patients. In total 14 potent neutralizing antibodies were then isolated and from these the most potent, BD-368-2 exhibited high activity against pseudotype and authentic SARS-C0V-2 spike cell antigen. (s1 unit at the N terminal - RBD)

 

BD-368-2 was tested in  ACE-2 transgenic mice.  These are mice that have been genetically engineered to have antigens that are similar to or identical to the binding site on human host cells for the spike cell RBD of the virus..  They are therefore the most suitable animal model for SARS-C0V-2 virus study.

 

Three mice were given the treatment 24 hours before infection

Three mice were given the treatment 2 hours after infection

Three mice were given a sham injection.

 

The six mice that received the treatment all retained body weight, the 3 mice that received sham injection did not.

 

They also analyzed viral load by RT-PCR testing in lung tissue and found no virus in the mice treated before infection and a much reduced load in the mice treated two hours after infection, compared to the mice which received the sham injection.

 

Because there are so few new cases in China, study of this monoclonal agent will be studied in SPECIAL countries such as the US, Brazil and Mexico where infection is still very prevalent. This may be one of the monoclonals being tested by the NIH - ACTIV consortium, as I understand it, results may be available by October,     

 

Numbers

 

Comparing the week ending 6/27 to the week ending 6/20

 

Alabama  - decreased number of beds used, 29% more cases, 6% fewer tests

California - 26% more beds used, 19% more cases, 26% more tests (increased cases may be related to increased tests)

Connecticut - fewer beds used, 33% fewer cases, 20% fewer tests

Florida - no data on beds, 93% more cases, 51% more tests

Georgia - 25% more beds, 65% more cases, 24% more tests

Illinois - fewer beds, 18% more cases, 10% more tests

Iowa - fewer beds, 31% more cases, 27% more tests 

Louisiana - 22% more beds, 80% more cases, 29% fewer tests

Maryland - 19% more beds, 18% fewer cases, 5% fewer tests

Michigan - fewer beds, 32% more cases, 15% more tests

Mississippi - 32% more beds, 334% more cases, 4% more tests

New Jersey - fewer beds, 11% fewer cases, 8% fewer tests

New York - fewer beds, 1% more cases, 8.6% fewer tests

Ohio - 16% more beds, 49% more cases, 21% more tests

Pennsylvania - fewer beds, 7% more cases, 5% fewer tests

South Carolina - 35% more beds, 45% more cases, 1.2% more tests

Texas - 70% more beds (2276), 60% more cases, 17% more tests

Wisconsin -  4% more beds, 47% more cases, 6% more tests

 

The winner for the week is by far Mississippi with a 334% increase in cases!  

 

The significant jump in states where wearing masks or distancing were not required or strongly encouraged is evidence of of the folly of this.  Texas has had to halt elective surgery in four counties because of the need for Covid-19 beds.  Thank Governor Abbott.

 

In Pennsylvania gyms were allowed to open in all counties. I belong to LA Fitness which is requiring masks in the gym. They are also doing extra sanitizing. I have gone twice already and feel very safe.

 

Have a good day

 

Live Safely

Be Well

when he says "fewer beds", that's good right? he means "fewer beds in use" not "fewer beds available"?

On 7/3/2020 at 9:47 PM, Smokesdawg said:

Holy ish. This entire thread. Just data without political agenda. 

 

 

I have no idea how the math to this can still confuse people after spending 3 months plus dealing with this.  Deaths todays are low because cases dropped in May after the lockdowns.  Deaths are going to go way up in 2-4 weeks as the new wave explodes.  How is this complicated?

 

And as a side note, I get "Spanish cable" and it's so easy to watch news from other countries from Mexico to Spain being so focused on adapting to life with the virus.  How the F is it that a nation of proud "survivalists" like the US can be so ridiculously stubborn at adapting to simply wearing masks?

14 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

I have no idea how the math to this can still confuse people after spending 3 months plus dealing with this.  Deaths todays are low because cases dropped in May after the lockdowns.  Deaths are going to go way up in 2-4 weeks as the new wave explodes.  How is this complicated?

 

And as a side note, I get "Spanish cable" and it's so easy to watch news from other countries from Mexico to Spain being so focused on adapting to life with the virus.  How the F is it that a nation of proud "survivalists" like the US can be so ridiculously stubborn at adapting to simply wearing masks?

Americans only like to binge watch "survivalists” on TV.

4 minutes ago, hey suess said:

Americans only like to binge watch "survivalists” on TV.

I don't believe that.  These people hunt and go camping and own camo gear etc.  Survivalism is all about adapting to the environment.  How on earth does that translate into an inability to adapt to life with COVID?  By just wearing masks!

7 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

I have no idea how the math to this can still confuse people after spending 3 months plus dealing with this.  Deaths todays are low because cases dropped in May after the lockdowns.  Deaths are going to go way up in 2-4 weeks as the new wave explodes.  How is this complicated?

 

And as a side note, I get "Spanish cable" and it's so easy to watch news from other countries from Mexico to Spain being so focused on adapting to life with the virus.  How the F is it that a nation of proud "survivalists" like the US can be so ridiculously stubborn at adapting to simply wearing masks?

First, I am in favor of wearing masks as a general precaution. As for why so many Americans resist masks, I'd guess it's a combination of cultural and personal reasons.

For example, depending on your age, 1-3 generations ago families often had many children because you expected to lose some of them to illness. Then, and even later (60's-70's), when a child came down with a common childhood disease like chicken pox, mumps, measles, etc., play dates were set up to infect other kids so they could "get it out of the way." Not so very long ago, that was a normal practice. After that, vaccinations took over the role of shoring up the immune system.

Some people simply hate inconvenience so much they'll ignore the masks, and some others (like above) simply believe they'll kick the virus' butt and move on stronger than before because that's the messaging from the past. Whether they're right or wrong doesn't matter to them at all, they've decided not to wear them.

3 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

I don't believe that.  These people hunt and go camping and own camo gear etc.  Survivalism is all about adapting to the environment.  How on earth does that translate into an inability to adapt to life with COVID?

Everyone likes to play military until it’s time to do actual military crap.

Wear the mask for the same reasons you wear a condom. You really want to do something, but you don’t want to get sick doing it.

4 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

First, I am in favor of wearing masks as a general precaution. As for why so many Americans resist masks, I'd guess it's a combination of cultural and personal reasons.

For example, depending on your age, 1-3 generations ago families often had many children because you expected to lose some of them to illness. Then, and even later (60's-70's), when a child came down with a common childhood disease like chicken pox, mumps, measles, etc., play dates were set up to infect other kids so they could "get it out of the way." Not so very long ago, that was a normal practice. After that, vaccinations took over the role of shoring up the immune system.

Some people simply hate inconvenience so much they'll ignore the masks, and some others (like above) simply believe they'll kick the virus' butt and move on stronger than before because that's the messaging from the past. Whether they're right or wrong doesn't matter to them at all, they've decided not to wear them.

BS.  There's only one reason.  It's Donald Trump.  Almost every other country in the world wears mask because their leadership says they should.  You are turning yourself into a pretzel coming up with ridiculous evolutionary explanations.

On 7/3/2020 at 9:37 PM, Smokesdawg said:

This is the expected football spiking from the right on one study. 

Who are they????

That’s a good question.  But the fact is that the media ran with stories for weeks about death rates spiking with the use of hydrochloroquine when in reality it was based off of conjecture and incomplete information.  

The few "actual studies” that were done showed that it was an effective treatment (for the most part).  The media instead ran with random reports from hospitals, etc saying that it was increasing death rates.

 Why didn’t anyone bother to ask when was it being administered?  Was it being administered as a "last resort” when the people being given it were about to die or close to dying?  

I have a feeling it most likely was; so of course some hospitals/doctors will report increased death rates...what they failed to report is that the people being given it were close to death, regardless. (Just a logical guess on my part but as more information comes out, that seems to be closer to the truth).

 

40 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

That’s a good question.  But the fact is that the media ran with stories for weeks about death rates spiking with the use of hydrochloroquine when in reality it was based off of conjecture and incomplete information.  

The few "actual studies” that were done showed that it was an effective treatment (for the most part).  The media instead ran with random reports from hospitals, etc saying that it was increasing death rates.

 Why didn’t anyone bother to ask when was it being administered?  Was it being administered as a "last resort” when the people being given it were about to die or close to dying?  

I have a feeling it most likely was; so of course some hospitals/doctors will report increased death rates...what they failed to report is that the people being given it were close to death, regardless. (Just a logical guess on my part but as more information comes out, that seems to be closer to the truth).

 

You really need to stop being so insular.  This is not a Democrat/Republican thing.  The ENTIRE WORLD is split on Hydroxy with several countries wavering back and forth on it multiple times.  It is STILL not proven or unproven.  We know it kinda works sometimes, that's it and doctors around the world use it to varying degrees of success.  But no spin on this is quivalent to justifying M.D. Trump telling everybody to take it indiscriminately.  That is going to continue to be an extremely irresponible act by Trump no matter what the final verdict is. 

 

As a side note, my mother has a chldhood friend who got extermely sick wioth COVID during the big NY outbreak.  Hydroxy was among many things they pumped her with and she lived.  I am not rooting against Hydroxy mate.

1 hour ago, dawkins4prez said:

BS.  There's only one reason.  It's Donald Trump.  Almost every other country in the world wears mask because their leadership says they should.  You are turning yourself into a pretzel coming up with ridiculous evolutionary explanations.

Newsflash - Trump is our servant, not our ruler...thank God.

4 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

You really need to stop being so insular.  This is not a Democrat/Republican thing.  The ENTIRE WORLD is split on Hydroxy with several countries wavering back and forth on it multiple times.  It is STILL not proven or unproven.  We know it kinda works sometimes, that's it and doctors around the world use it to varying degrees of success.  But no spin on this is quivalent to M.D. Trump telling everybody to take it indiscriminately.  That is going to continue to be an extremely irresponible act by Trump no matter what the final verdict is. 

It’s not political and it shouldn’t be.  I’m politically non partisan so assuming that I’m insinuating that "Trump was right” is simply not understanding what being truly non-partisan means.  

If you look at my post history, I rarely chime in around here but when I do, it’s because I see something so off the wall that I say. "Time-out, that’s not the way things are or the way I see things as a non-partisan”.   
 

As far as treatments go, NOTHING is 100% proven yet.   And it won’t be for some time.  But in times of a pandemic, especially when lives are at risk,  as a society, we need to do the best we can with the information we have.  The one major study that was done (out of France) showed it to be an effective treatment.  That was the information that was available at the time.   Trump then tweets about it and the next thing we know is that hospitals are reporting higher death rates.  And the media runs with it for weeks.  So who’s making it political?    
 

Take a deep breath and view things from a non political standpoint before accusing others of doing so.    

 

3 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

It’s not political and it shouldn’t be.  I’m politically non partisan so assuming that I’m insinuating that "Trump was right” is simply not understanding what being truly non-partisan means.  

If you look at my post history, I rarely chime in around here but when I do, it’s because I see something so off the wall that I say. "Time-out, that’s not the way things are or the way I see things as a non-partisan”.   
 

As far as treatments go, NOTHING is 100% proven yet.   And it won’t be for some time.  But in times of a pandemic, especially when lives are at risk,  as a society, we need to do the best we can with the information we have.  The one major study that was done (out of France) showed it to be an effective treatment.  That was the information that was available at the time.   Trump then tweets about it and the next thing we know is that hospitals are reporting higher death rates.  And the media runs with it for weeks.  So who’s making it political?    
 

Take a deep breath and view things from a non political standpoint before accusing others of doing so.    

 

Last I checked a few weeks ago, France was among the countries that has banned the use of Hydroxy.  I don;t think it's politcal at all to point out that trump had no business telling people to slef subscribe Hydroxy, telling them "what have you got lose?".   Especially when the evidence was far from certain.  That is up to the doctors.  So there is literally no ultimate outcome with Hydroxy that pardons Trump for being reckless with medical information.  None.  He took a stab in the dark because he wanted to take credit for "curing" COVID.  It was stupid and that's that.

There have been various studies. This latest by the Henry Ford Health System is just one more. And it's no more valid or invalid than other similar studies performed by hospital systems. It's simply more data for healthcare providers to consider.

Most of the studies do not show hydroxychloroquine to be effective. Like those studies, this needs to be peer reviewed and independently verified - its findings need to be able to be reproduced. 

The claims in this particular study are that when the drug is administered very early it shows correlation with lower fatality rates. Most studies, even those that claim they administered the drug early, did not find the same.

It's not a slam dunk because ONE study showed what you want. Nor is it a slam dunk that because a dozen or so other studies didn't show effectiveness that the drug is ineffective. 

24 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Last I checked a few weeks ago, France was among the countries that has banned the use of Hydroxy.  I don;t think it's politcal at all to point out that trump had no business telling people to slef subscribe Hydroxy, telling them "what have you got lose?".   Especially when the evidence was far from certain.  That is up to the doctors.  So there is literally no ultimate outcome with Hydroxy that pardons Trump for being reckless with medical information.  None.  He took a stab in the dark because he wanted to take credit for "curing" COVID.  It was stupid and that's that.

My initial post had nothing to do with Trump.  It was about the possibility of it being an effective treatment but the media (seemed) to politicize it by running with unsubstantiated reports that it was killing people.   That’s all.  
 

And I tend to agree no one other than medical professionals should be advising patients on what do to when it comes to their health.  I can only hope that most doctors used their own judgement and used actual studies (As limited as they were/are) vs what one "political” side said vs the other.