August 4, 20205 yr 15 minutes ago, The_Omega said: Sure they are. Here's the director of the CDC admitting that there is a financial incentive to overcount, which is known to have been going on the entire time, yet all you can do is sputter media narrative talking points. Nice. Who cares what the CDC says when we have hard numbers on excess deaths? https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/about-30-covid-deaths-may-not-be-classified-such Quote From Mar 1 to May 30, there were about 781,000 all-cause deaths in 48 states, 95,235 officially attributed to COVID-19, leaving 122,300 more than would be expected during that period.
August 4, 20205 yr 6 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: somebody tell those dead people to stop faking it! 1 hour ago, mr_hunt said: august 3, 2020....150,000+ covid deaths....finally.... Finally 150,000+ dead. Nice.
August 4, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: Who cares what the CDC says when we have hard numbers on excess deaths? https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/about-30-covid-deaths-may-not-be-classified-such Uh huh. How many of those were because people couldn't/wouldn't go for other treatments because of the sole focus on Covid-19?
August 4, 20205 yr 16 minutes ago, The_Omega said: Uh huh. How many of those were because people couldn't/wouldn't go for other treatments because of the sole focus on Covid-19? For a 122,000 excess deaths compared with the baseline? Seriously? Yeah, the numbers just don't have your back on this one, Beta. Also, it's just generally disgusting to downplay a virus that's killing people all across the country because you're trying to please your cult leader. But that's what we've come to expect from you guys.
August 4, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, VanHammersly said: For a 122,000 excess deaths compared with the baseline? Seriously? Yeah, seriously.
August 4, 20205 yr 15 minutes ago, The_Omega said: Finally 150,000+ dead. Nice. his "finally" statement is a response to Trump "finally" appealing to his "fans" to wear masks. as in, it "only" took 150k+ dead for Trump to "finally" recommend masks.
August 4, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said: his "finally" statement is a response to Trump "finally" appealing to his "fans" to wear masks. as in, it "only" took 150k+ dead for Trump to "finally" recommend masks. i wasn't even gonna bother. schmegma's having a rough day in here.
August 4, 20205 yr Don't like people saying you said stuff you didn't? Yet you do it all the time. Weird.
August 4, 20205 yr Huh, getting insurance to pay out more for hospital stays that involve higher acuity and higher hospital resources...crazy talk! Guess that explains all the record profits all these hospital systems are making right now.
August 4, 20205 yr 56 minutes ago, The_Omega said: Sure they are. Here's the director of the CDC admitting that there is a financial incentive to overcount, which is known to have been going on the entire time, yet all you can do is sputter media narrative talking points. Nice. People like you are the reason kids can’t go back to school. You don’t believe in science. You think it’s a hoax. But in reality you’re a super-spreader.
August 4, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, The_Omega said: Sure they are. Here's the director of the CDC admitting that there is a financial incentive to overcount, which is known to have been going on the entire time, yet all you can do is sputter media narrative talking points. Nice. The Covid death counts are absolutely undercounted. A review of excess mortality shows a significant gap between excess mortality and the "official” Covid death count. This is likely explained by the following: 1) an undercount of COVID deaths, especially earlier on in the pandemic when testing was scarce 2) misattribution of COVID death to other causes. E.g someone has a heart attack brought on by COVID, but COVID doesn’t get listed as the underlying cause 3) indirect deaths caused by the pandemic. suicide, drug overdose, deaths as a result of people avoiding going to the hospital for symptoms they otherwise would have gone to. Anyone claiming that the "official” COVID death count is an overcount is not looking at the data.
August 4, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, The_Omega said: Sure they are. Here's the director of the CDC admitting that there is a financial incentive to overcount, which is known to have been going on the entire time, yet all you can do is sputter media narrative talking points. Nice. There is not a financial incentive to treat COVID patients on Medicare. Hospitals are LOSING money by doing so. The actual financial incentive would be for a hospital to NOT take in COVID medicare patients. The 20% premium added to the reimbursement of COVID Medicare patients just makes it such that hospitals aren’t losing as much money as they otherwise would.
August 4, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, Phillyterp85 said: There is not a financial incentive to treat COVID patients on Medicare. Hospitals are LOSING money by doing so. The actual financial incentive would be for a hospital to NOT take in COVID medicare patients. The 20% premium added to the reimbursement of COVID Medicare patients just makes it such that hospitals aren’t losing as much money as they otherwise would. I would love to see a comparison between the amount of money hospitals made from that extra 20% from medicare vs the amount of money they lost by cancelling elective procedures. Just absolutely insane what people will believe.
August 4, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: I would love to see a comparison between the amount of money hospitals made from that extra 20% from medicare vs the amount of money they lost by cancelling elective procedures. Just absolutely insane what people will believe. Yup. Not to mention how much of a gap still remains even after that 20% when a hospital has a Medicare patient on a ventilator for 14 days.
August 4, 20205 yr 27 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: I would love to see a comparison between the amount of money hospitals made from that extra 20% from medicare vs the amount of money they lost by cancelling elective procedures. And yet they didn't have a choice, so given no choice, they're making it up anyway that they can. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/investigations/coronavirus-excess-deaths-heart/ Quote Heart conditions drove spike in deaths beyond those attributed to covid-19, analysis shows Fear of seeking care in hospitals overwhelmed by the pandemic may have caused thousands of deaths, experts say
August 4, 20205 yr 49 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: The Covid death counts are absolutely undercounted. A review of excess mortality shows a significant gap between excess mortality and the "official” Covid death count. This is likely explained by the following: 1) an undercount of COVID deaths, especially earlier on in the pandemic when testing was scarce 2) misattribution of COVID death to other causes. E.g someone has a heart attack brought on by COVID, but COVID doesn’t get listed as the underlying cause 3) indirect deaths caused by the pandemic. suicide, drug overdose, deaths as a result of people avoiding going to the hospital for symptoms they otherwise would have gone to. Anyone claiming that the "official” COVID death count is an overcount is not looking at the data. An appeal to data, without data. Awesome.
August 4, 20205 yr 12 minutes ago, The_Omega said: And yet they didn't have a choice, so given no choice, they're making it up anyway that they can. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/investigations/coronavirus-excess-deaths-heart/ Not every state mandated a stop in elective procedures, and most hospitals I know stopped well before there were any mandates. Any more insight?
August 4, 20205 yr 49 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: There is not a financial incentive to treat COVID patients on Medicare. Hospitals are LOSING money by doing so. The actual financial incentive would be for a hospital to NOT take in COVID medicare patients. The 20% premium added to the reimbursement of COVID Medicare patients just makes it such that hospitals aren’t losing as much money as they otherwise would. the financial incentive is on the backend - more funding/grants the higher the body count.
August 4, 20205 yr 9 minutes ago, The_Omega said: An appeal to data, without data. Awesome. lol what you think I'm lying? It's not like I have access to some secret database, the data is publicly available. I look at the excess mortality data every week. Given your response here, it's clear you haven't looked at it once since during this pandemic. So, here's the data: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm Data in recent weeks is incomplete, so let's just look at the time period from 2/1/20 to 7/4/20. Calculating the cumulative excess death during this time period, we've had around 166,000 excess deaths. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ During that same time period, we had 133,000 COVID deaths. That leaves a 33,000 gap in deaths (25% over the "official" COVID death count).
August 4, 20205 yr 23 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Not every state mandated a stop in elective procedures, and most hospitals I know stopped well before there were any mandates. Any more insight? Not to mention, even the states that did limit elective procedures, it's not like they put out a blanket ban on all procedures. Procedures deemed urgent or procedures in which delays would cause further harm to patients were still carried out. And as you mention, the hospital where my dad was working at in NY stopped performing elective procedures prior to the governor's executive order. They knew they weren't going to have the resources to be able to carry on business as usual while at the same time deal with the surge in COVID patients.
August 4, 20205 yr 23 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Not every state mandated a stop in elective procedures, and most hospitals I know stopped well before there were any mandates. Any more insight? Almost every state did, regardless of when the hospitals stopped, and any company will place priority on 20% premium business, unless a higher premium is offered.
August 4, 20205 yr 11 minutes ago, The_Omega said: Almost every state did, regardless of when the hospitals stopped, and any company will place priority on 20% premium business, unless a higher premium is offered. How do you not get that they stopped elective procedures because they needed the hospital beds / space? They built a field hospital in Central Park. Come join the rest of us in reality anytime.
August 4, 20205 yr 3 minutes ago, The_Omega said: Almost every state did, regardless of when the hospitals stopped, and any company will place priority on 20% premium business, unless a higher premium is offered. And every hospital system I know stopped well before any of those mandates. So again if their goal was to try to weasel their way into more money it makes zero sense why they would do that but then cook the books for an extra 20% on a few dozen medicare patients.
August 4, 20205 yr 34 minutes ago, The_Omega said: Almost every state did, regardless of when the hospitals stopped, and any company will place priority on 20% premium business, unless a higher premium is offered. Once again, hospitals are likely LOSING money by treating COVID medicare patients. Medicare reimburses hospitals on a lump sum basis. I can assure you that the lump sum reimbursement rate for a medicare patient on a ventilator isn't based on someone being on a ventilator for 2 weeks. If it costs you $100 to make a widget, and someone comes up to you and says, "I was going to offer you $80 for that widget, but you know what I'll do ya one better. I'll add a 20% premium to my offer and pay you $96". Do you have a financial incentive to sell your widget to this person for $96? Second question, if another person comes up to you and says, "I was going to offer you $120 for that widget, but I changed my mind and am discounting 10% off my offer, and instead I'm only going to pay you $108". What gives you the greater financial incentive, the person offering you the "premium" or the person offering you the "discount"?
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