May 6, 20205 yr 9 hours ago, Outlaw said: I’m not a confederate flag waving "open at all costs” guy but I think it’s ridiculous that big box retailers can be open and full of crowds of people but local mom and pop‘s who even when open under normal circumstances have 10 people in the shop at a time, can’t. Everybody should open imho. However the social distancing and mask wearing need to be enforced everywhere in the 50% or so of the country that is known to be infected. That's the part that I am directly attributing to Trump more than anything else right now. He has gleefully allowed his brand to be tethered to the childish rebellion of not wearing masks and acting the fool. It's maddening to me. The far right is displaying straight up snowflake, sheltered behavior. This is what happens when you live in fairytale land that is never affected by pandemics. In Asia and Africa nobody would think about defying those norms during a pandemic, they know the drill like midwesterners know where to run during a tornado. But Trump doesn't care, he eggs them on endangering his own cult and anybody they come in contact with for the sole reason he thinks the optics will help the economy. You want this reopen to be successful? Fing wear the masks.
May 6, 20205 yr 13 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: Everybody should open imho. However the social distancing and mask wearing need to be enforced everywhere in the 50% or so of the country that is known to be infected. That's the part that I am directly attributing to Trump more than anything else right now. He has gleefully allowed his brand to be tethered to the childish rebellion of not wearing masks and acting the fool. It's maddening to me. The far right is displaying straight up snowflake, sheltered behavior. This is what happens when you live in fairytale land that is never affected by pandemics. In Asia and Africa nobody would think about defying those norms during a pandemic, they know the drill like midwesterners know where to run during a tornado. But Trump doesn't care, he eggs them on endangering his own cult and anybody they come in contact with for the sole reason he thinks the optics will help the economy. You want this reopen to be successful? Fing wear the masks. I think people for the most part are wearing masks...at least when I've been at Giant, Costco or Lowe's (pretty much the only places I've been besides my office a day or two a week and my couch) I haven't seen anyone not complying. I think if you told people we can reopen but masks are mandatory until numbers go down, I think the vast majority would comply. And it's up to the individual businesses to enforce their customers compliance. No shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service.
May 6, 20205 yr 14 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said: The real question is testing. What % of tests done in the U.S. came back positive compared to other countries. Just comparing deaths per million people, without knowing what the amount of tests performed per million is useless. Also a good portion of the population in those Asian countries were already using masks for one reason or another. Not something we did in the states. I can't imagine that being the culture going forward, but it's a possibility. that's bass ackwards. given that testing is not happening broadly, there is a TREMENDOUS amount of unknown data in the form of potentially millions worldwide walking around with asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 over the last 2-3 mos. so testing numbers, while they are valuable in assessing how broadly we actually are testing, is less reliable as an overall metric outside of outlier countries like SK who have managed to test a much larger segment of their population. in most nations testing is concentrated among the population that is exhibiting symptoms or where there is reason to believe exposure took place. this doesn't cover enough people to represent any reliable sampling of the population that includes some unknown number of asymptomatic carriers. comparing deaths per million is THE BEST way to understand what is and isn't effective in terms of social distancing and shelter-in-place guidelines. it's not perfect, but in the real world nothing is statistically without flaw. and it's a far better metric, because the numbers are more complete, than those of testing alone. in terms of accuracy, you have one side claiming that death numbers are under-reported because there is pressure to keep the count low (for example nursing homes are reluctant to attribute a death as related to COVID-19 if they don't have a positive test because that makes them look bad), and you have another side claiming death numbers are being inflated because of some broad conspiracy/desire to exploit the pandemic for political gain. I find the latter to be more preposterous, even if it's not wholly implausible. but even despite this, death rates per million is the best way to compare across regions and nations by a long shot. it's not without its issues, but it's FAR better than relying on testing rates that are much more uneven across nations and regions.
May 6, 20205 yr Agree with above. Businesses should be allowed to open with enforced social distancing. South Dakota, for example, never locked down and is faring well. Lockdowns were never meant for long term.
May 6, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said: In terms of accuracy, you have one side claiming that death numbers are under-reported because there is pressure to keep the count low (for example nursing homes are reluctant to attribute a death as related to COVID-19 if they don't have a positive test because that makes them look bad), and you have another side claiming death numbers are being inflated because of some broad conspiracy/desire to exploit the pandemic for political gain. I find the latter to be more preposterous, even if it's not wholly implausible. I believe one argument for this is guaranteed and increased hospital funding based on Covid diagnosis/treatment over non-Covdid treatments. Not taking either side, but definitely plausible with most hospitals for profit and losing their main earner in elective surgeries.
May 6, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said: Yeah. Ok. What does that mean? I know you’re not knew here. It means I don’t play the left vs right BS partisan game. I couldn’t care less about what political party someone belongs to. It means when discussing the COVID-19 pandemic, I couldn’t give 2 sh-ts about "political beliefs”. This is a discussion on science, not politics.
May 6, 20205 yr 11 minutes ago, Outlaw said: I think people for the most part are wearing masks...at least when I've been at Giant, Costco or Lowe's (pretty much the only places I've been besides my office a day or two a week and my couch) I haven't seen anyone not complying. I think if you told people we can reopen but masks are mandatory until numbers go down, I think the vast majority would comply. And it's up to the individual businesses to enforce their customers compliance. No shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service. Biggest obstacle is that the masks are much more useful for preventing the wearer from spreading the disease than they are at preventing them from getting it. So even handful of non compliant people could be a serious problem. Every store I've seen that's still open has enforced it at the door but once people get inside for some reason they're feel like it's cool to take it off for a second to look at something or pop their nose over the top etc. People are Fing stupid.
May 6, 20205 yr 12 minutes ago, DMMVP said: Agree with above. Businesses should be allowed to open with enforced social distancing. South Dakota, for example, never locked down and is faring well. Lockdowns were never meant for long term. South Dakota is South Dakota. We cannot compare South Dakota or even New Zealand to New York. Places with low pop density already have natural social distancing. Rural areas do not need masks. Suburbs only need them when going to enclosed places. If you live downtown like I do, you wear it before stepping out of your house. That's the real F'ed up thing about those Michigan protests. Yeah, nobody cares if you wear a mask out in bumbleF where you live, you f'ing hillbilly. Don't bring that shite to the state capitol.
May 6, 20205 yr 54 minutes ago, M.C. said: Wow, so Tucker agrees with the reasoning behind some protests but not others. What a hypocrite!
May 6, 20205 yr 8 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: South Dakota is South Dakota. We cannot compare South Dakota or even New Zealand to New York. Places with low pop density already have natural social distancing. Rural areas do not need masks. Suburbs only need them when going to enclosed places. If you live downtown like I do, you wear it before stepping out of your house. That's the real F'ed up thing about those Michigan protests. Yeah, nobody cares if you wear a mask out in bumbleF where you live, you f'ing hillbilly. Don't bring that shite to the state capitol. New York is an outlier. Large population density majorly relying on a crowded transit system doomed a lot of people. Florida has a high population density, closed late, and has fared much better. I can't agree with protesting without a mask. Puts others at risk which is unacceptable. I do believe we have to open and social distance. People are ignoring the lockdowns out of frustration, governors have to take that into account.
May 6, 20205 yr 21 minutes ago, Kz! said: Wow, so Tucker agrees with the reasoning behind some protests but not others. What a hypocrite! You obviously didn't watch it. He didn't say anything about the reasons, he was talking about the method. Thanking the right wingers for protesting and calling the methods of the union protestors contemptible, despite them both doing the same thing.
May 6, 20205 yr 6 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: You obviously didn't watch it. He didn't say anything about the reasons, he was talking about the method. Thanking the right wingers for protesting and calling the methods of the union protestors contemptible, despite them both doing the same thing. Beat me to the punch! lol! 😆
May 6, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, M.C. said: Beat me to the punch! lol! I'm just surprised Kz wouldn't watch a Tucker Carlson video. You'd think he'd see his face and start excitedly mashing play before the page finished loading.
May 6, 20205 yr 12 hours ago, DEagle7 said: I could be wrong here, but I thought he was making a reference to the general compliance level of the population rather than the masks specifically. ie the relatively large part of the US population whose natural response to any government guidelines is "F you I won't do what you tell me" regardless. Yup. Definitely seen way too many people with the mentality of either a) Im never wearing a mask in public. or b) I’ll only wear one in public if the store doesn’t allow me in without one.
May 6, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, Outlaw said: I think people for the most part are wearing masks...at least when I've been at Giant, Costco or Lowe's (pretty much the only places I've been besides my office a day or two a week and my couch) I haven't seen anyone not complying. I think if you told people we can reopen but masks are mandatory until numbers go down, I think the vast majority would comply. And it's up to the individual businesses to enforce their customers compliance. No shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service. I would hope that the majority of people would comply with the very simple task of wearing a mask when in a public space where you can’t maintain physical distance from others. Don’t know if they will. In the places I’ve been in Jersey, compliance has been good. In my neighborhood, it’s been so so. I’m still seeing way too many people congregating together that aren’t wearing masks. Then you have a place like Stillwater, Oklahoma where the city mandated masks in stores, and then reversed course when grocery market customers without masks were threatening the employees who told them they couldn’t come in unless they wore one. Makes me shake my head.
May 6, 20205 yr 36 minutes ago, DMMVP said: New York is an outlier. Large population density majorly relying on a crowded transit system doomed a lot of people. Florida has a high population density, closed late, and has fared much better. I can't agree with protesting without a mask. Puts others at risk which is unacceptable. I do believe we have to open and social distance. People are ignoring the lockdowns out of frustration, governors have to take that into account. Any urban hub that doesn't apply the distancing & mask measures is just playing Russian Roulette until they get their major outbreak. Speaking of Russia, they are just now taking their bullet. Florida will get theirs. It's a guarantee.
May 6, 20205 yr Author 11 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: Speaking of Russia, they are just now taking their bullet. They've been taking their bullet for some time. It's now so bad that they can't hide it.
May 6, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, Mlodj said: They've been taking their bullet for some time. It's now so bad that they can't hide it. Plus all their doctors and journalists keep falling off buildings.
May 6, 20205 yr Author 10 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Plus all their doctors and journalists keep falling off buildings. If they would just keep them away from windows they would be okay.
May 6, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said: Also a good portion of the population in those Asian countries were already using masks for one reason or another. Not something we did in the states. I can't imagine that being the culture going forward, but it's a possibility. Well that’s my point. In places like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Hong Kong, adherence to wearing a mask in public isn’t an issue. It’s not unusual in their cultures. Culturally, that’s not something we do. Adherence has been slow and in some places, people have been combative against this. But just because it’s not in our culture, that’s no excuse for not doing such a simple task. I’ve never warn a mask before in public spaces. I have been now. It’s not like it’s difficult task or something. The CDC certainly didn’t help matters with their bungling of the message.
May 6, 20205 yr 24 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: Any urban hub that doesn't apply the distancing & mask measures is just playing Russian Roulette until they get their major outbreak. Speaking of Russia, they are just now taking their bullet. Florida will get theirs. It's a guarantee. If they are smart in Florida with safety measures, they'll be fine. Florida has had more success with less restrictions than others. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
May 6, 20205 yr 4 minutes ago, DMMVP said: If they are smart in Florida with safety measures, they'll be fine. Florida has had more success with less restrictions than others. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'll take the under on that bet.
May 6, 20205 yr 14 hours ago, Lorddevn said: They improved infection based on broad testing and forceful quarantine and tracking. News flash, quarantining weakens your immune system, that's why if a second wave comes many will be struck down.
May 6, 20205 yr 3 minutes ago, EagleVA said: News flash, quarantining weakens your immune system, that's why if a second wave comes many will be struck down. This is a novel virus. No one has immunity to it. If someone knowingly has the disease, they should absolutely quarantine themselves to avoid spreading it to others.
May 6, 20205 yr 3 minutes ago, EagleVA said: News flash, quarantining weakens your immune system, that's why if a second wave comes many will be struck down. Also, the idea of flattening the curve was to spread the infections over time to not overwhelm our healthcare system. The amount of cases were always planned to be the same.
Create an account or sign in to comment