13 minutes ago, binkybink77 said:

I think the scariest part is they are claiming to do it on priority for those being sent out of the country for work or other travel.. seems... safe for the rest of the world

Everything that comes out of their mouths is BS... just like how they claim they've only had 88,000 cases of COVID-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. I mean, I guess it's easier to slow the spread when you can just weld apartment building doors shut.

I'm not saying they planned on unleashing this virus to the world, but they don't get nearly enough ish from the international community over their downplaying of the virus and outright suppression of the severity early on.

1 minute ago, Dawkins 20 said:

Everything that comes out of their mouths is BS... just like how they claim they've only had 88,000 cases of COVID-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. I mean, I guess it's easier to slow the spread when you can just weld apartment building doors shut.

I'm not saying they planned on unleashing this virus to the world, but they don't get nearly enough ish from the international community over their downplaying of the virus and outright suppression of the severity early on.

1.  What in the everliving F? 

2. Agreed 100%!! And the US is so busy screaming at each other that China quietly sneaks out the backdoor and out of everyone's minds.

"Well, I think the first thing you have to look at is who signed that — no one with credibility in the area of [COVID-19] research and development. [No one] who is coming from the public health world that has had to deal with [COVID-19] on the front lines [is] signing that. I think that's the important message is the fact that just because you can get names ... we have very prominent physicians who are anti-vaccine, period. We've seen people who are well outside of their area of expertise will sign on as a social event. So to me, I think the World Health Organization, the [National Institutes of Health], the [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention], you know, thousands of people who are truly the public health experts on infectious diseases not only have not signed it, but actually oppose it as dangerous.”

 

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/10/14/herd-immunity-coronavirus

17 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

YOU ARE AN IDIOT. THE WORD MASK DOESN'T EVEN APPEAR IN THAT DECLARATION.

 

JFC you really don't read, do you???

Yeah? I guess then I've got some news for you...

38 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

If you think this is just the uneducated that feel these masks and shutdowns are causing more problems than solutions, I've got some news for you...

   

9 minutes ago, Dawkins 20 said:

Everything that comes out of their mouths is BS... just like how they claim they've only had 88,000 cases of COVID-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. I mean, I guess it's easier to slow the spread when you can just weld apartment building doors shut.

I'm not saying they planned on unleashing this virus to the world, but they don't get nearly enough ish from the international community over their downplaying of the virus and outright suppression of the severity early on.

And China is often cited as an example of a country that got its response to the pandemic right in here. Good times.

1 minute ago, Kz! said:

And China is often cited as an example of a country that got its response to the pandemic right in here. Good times.

The left loves them some commies!

7 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yeah? I guess then I've got some news for you...

   

K, let's break this down for you.

You: "people who say masks and shutdowns aren't necessary are uneducated!"
Me: "No, they're not. Here's proof of people who state shutdowns do more harm than good."
You: "you and these people are quacks for thinking masks don't work!!"

You completely missed the point. Not surprised, however. Because your bias shows constantly. 

1 minute ago, mikemack8 said:

The left loves them some commies!

"Trump is an orange authoritarian and I hate him!"

"Why couldn't Trump respond like China we could have beaten the virus!!"

This is the content I'm here for.

5 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

K, let's break this down for you.

You: "people who say masks and shutdowns aren't necessary are uneducated!"
Me: "No, they're not. Here's proof of people who state shutdowns do more harm than good."
You: "you and these people are quacks for thinking masks don't work!!"

You completely missed the point. Not surprised, however. Because your bias shows constantly. 

No, moron, you were the first one to state "masks were doing more harm than good" and in the same breath you posted some facebook crap while trying to paint it as corroboration for your nonsense. Then when your error was pointed out, you blow a gasket. You fail at reading and undoubtedly many other things. Next time take your own advice and actually spend the three minutes to carefully read what you think backs up your grossly false claims before trying to call out others for not doing so.

44 minutes ago, Kz! said:

What would you like Trump and the federal government to do exactly? Override state and local governments and implement sweeping federal policies? 

At least come out a tell his minions to wear a damn mask!  Is that too hard?

Hey everybody! Since that China virus was just a hoax to get Trump ousted, let's go cruising in the Caribbean again. What could go wrong?

Seriously. Who approved this? Who didn't see this coming when they started this again?  Cruise ships were literally one of the first vectors reported for bringing the virus into the country earlier this year. They're germ incubators. 

11 minutes ago, Kz! said:

And China is often cited as an example of a country that got its response to the pandemic right in here. Good times.

 

7 minutes ago, Kz! said:

"Trump is an orange authoritarian and I hate him!"

"Why couldn't Trump respond like China we could have beaten the virus!!"

This is the content I'm here for.

 Literally nobody here has said anything even remotely close to this

Just now, barho said:

At least come out a tell his minions to wear a damn mask!  Is that too hard?

The white house has been recommending mask use since April and he tweeted support for mask wearing in July. Is there a certain number of times you'd like him to say it? Would 5 times do the trick?

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

 

 Literally nobody here has said anything even remotely close to this

Incorrect.

10 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

No, moron, you were the first one to state "masks were doing more harm than good" and in the same breath you posted some facebook crap while trying to paint it as corroboration for your nonsense. Then when your error was pointed out, you blow a gasket. You fail at reading and undoubtedly many other things. Next time take your own advice and actually spend the three minutes to carefully read what you think backs up your grossly false claims before trying to call out others for not doing so.

You're a Fing idiot. I did not state that they were. You all group those people as "uneducated".  That isn't a Facebook crap, I found it when it was emailed to me from someone with a MEDICAL DEGREE who has practiced medicine for three decades at the University of Michigan.  I shared it to Facebook, and then copied it here.  Hence why it looks "copied/pasted" with the white highlighting, but I wanted to exclude my own personal statement from the Declaration.  So it wouldn't be misconstrued as part of it.  

Grossly false claims?? K, Fact F Checker.   Go F yourself.  

Just so you know... I have a two-year-old that had pneumonia.  A wife that is 8 months pregnant. We wear masks in public.  But we don't demand that the restaurant down the street or the gym next door get shut down to serve your communist tastes. 

48 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

Physicians, or leading epidemiologist?  Because 15 of those people in that screenshot, are epidemiologists at some of the most renowned institutions in the world, including Stanford, Harvard, Edinburgh, Auckland, etc. etc.   And that doesn't include others who aren't epidemiologists, but oncologists and other immunologists at places like Queen's University, York, Tel-Aviv, Yale, Oxford...   

Epidemiologists and physicians.  Again it's easy to look at a facebook post and say "Oooo Stanford, that guy must be right!" but there are literally millions of doctors in this country and you can always find a handful that will agree with even the most ridiculous claims (again see vaccines and autism).  It's why petitions like this are essentially useless compared to consensus statements and guidelines from medical societies like CDC/AMA/IDSA/AAP etc.  I tune in for Brigham and Women's and Boston Children's grand rounds almost every week, most of which have been on COVID over the past 9 months and I can tell you that not once has the idea of "it's not that bad we should never have to lock things down" has been brought up in any way outside of mockery.

Not to mention even if we did want to use the appeal-to-authority angle for individuals,  even the most qualified people on this list aren't even in the same stratosphere as people like Fauci, Goosby, Osterholm etc etc when it comes to pandemic response.

1 minute ago, IFB DOG said:

You're a Fing idiot. I did not state that they were. You all group those people as "uneducated".  That isn't a Facebook crap, I found it when it was emailed to me from someone with a MEDICAL DEGREE who has practiced medicine for three decades at the University of Michigan.  I shared it to Facebook, and then copied it here.  Hence why it looks "copied/pasted" with the white highlighting, but I wanted to exclude my own personal statement from the Declaration.  So it wouldn't be misconstrued as part of it.  

Grossly false claims?? K, Fact F Checker.   Go F yourself.  

Lots of anger from someone who fails to read things before posting them. For future reference, read things first, then post afterwards.

5 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Lots of anger from someone who fails to read things before posting them. For future reference, read things first, then post afterwards.

You're muted, dope.  The liberal Shocker, ****. 

Just now, IFB DOG said:

You're muted, dope.  The liberal Shocker, ****. 

Well now you're just hurting my feelings

4 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

You're muted, dope.  The liberal Shocker, ****. 

Don't insult Shocker like that - at least he's entertaining

12 minutes ago, Kz! said:

The white house has been recommending mask use since April and he tweeted support for mask wearing in July. Is there a certain number of times you'd like him to say it? Would 5 times do the trick?

It would be nice if Trump followed the advice. LINK  He's been wishy-washy: resisting to be seen in public wearing a facemask, teasing Biden at a debate for wearing one, etc. It appears less urgent if he doesn't set the example.

6 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Epidemiologists and physicians.  Again it's easy to look at a facebook post and say "Oooo Stanford, that guy must be right!" but there are literally millions of doctors in this country and you can always find a handful that will agree with absolute garbage (again see vaccines and autism).  It's why petitions like this are essentially useless compared to consensus statements and guidelines from medical societies like CDC/AMA/IDSA/AAP etc.  I tune in for Brigham and Women's and Boston Children's grand rounds almost every week, most of which have been on COVID over the past 9 months and I can tell you that not once has the idea of "it's not that bad we should never have to lock things down" has been brought up in any way outside of mockery.

Not to mention even if we did want to use the appeal-to-authority angle for individuals,  even the most qualified people on this list aren't even in the same stratosphere as people like Fauci, Goosby, Osterholm etc etc when it comes to pandemic response.

Fauci's background is in clinical and laboratory work.  The person the GBD was forwarded from worked with him when they were dealing with rheumatology in the 80s.  His greatest contribution to epidemiology was through his HIV work.  He is obviously someone to be admired, and listened to, but he's not infallible.  He's also looking at the problem through a VERY limited scope - how to limit infection, hospitalizations and deaths, even if those measures are causing much greater problems that NOBODY is talking about. Mental health is already a major problem in this country... do you think COVID protocols are going to help? When businesses are shutdown for good? People don't see their families?  Children are staring at computer screens all day??

Stanford is working towards trying to find a correlation between masks and herd immunity. With the ability to limit particulate matter, masks could be allowing spread to continue but with a much slower infection rate, thus giving our immune systems a chance to fight it off and become asymptomatic.  I love listening to those conference calls. 

Just now, IFB DOG said:

Fauci's background is in clinical and laboratory work.  The person the GBD was forwarded from worked with him when they were dealing with rheumatology in the 80s.  His greatest contribution to epidemiology was through his HIV work.  He is obviously someone to be admired, and listened to, but he's not infallible.  He's also looking at the problem through a VERY limited scope - how to limit infection, hospitalizations and deaths, even if those measures are causing much greater problems that NOBODY is talking about. Mental health is already a major problem in this country... do you think COVID protocols are going to help? When businesses are shutdown for good? People don't see their families?  Children are staring at computer screens all day??

Stanford is working towards trying to find a correlation between masks and herd immunity. With the ability to limit particulate matter, masks could be allowing spread to continue but with a much slower infection rate, thus giving our immune systems a chance to fight it off and become asymptomatic.  I love listening to those conference calls. 

No one is infallible, but again if you want to look at an individual as an authority figure, glossing over guys like Fauci and Osterholm for other doctors whose appeal is "they have Harvard/Stanford/Aukland/etc in their resume" is a bit silly.  They are as close to leading experts as we have. And yes public health entities are studying things like depression and economic impact as well. It's an important factor to consider and I'm not sure why you think guys like the ones I listed aren't taking it into consideration Fauci's background is in immunology but he has been apart of comprehensive national infectious disease response for decades now. You can say the same for Osterholm and infectious disease research.

If we don't want to take the word of any individual (which I would argue is definitely the better option) then it's best to look at medical society and task-force guidelines pretty much all of which go against what these guys are saying (a petition =/= a societal/taskforce consensus statement/guideline).  I've said before that it is going to take decades to fully appreciate and detail the impact from COVID and many things we think may change between now and then so no should be "sure" about anything.  But there's a big difference between caution and making an equivalency between the best available data and expert opinions of the majority and a opinions of a few individuals.

29 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

No one is infallible, but again if you want to look at an individual as an authority figure, glossing over guys like Fauci and Osterholm for other doctors whose appeal is "they have Harvard/Stanford/Aukland/etc in their resume" is a bit silly.  They are as close to leading experts as we have. And yes public health entities are studying things like depression and economic impact as well. It's an important factor to consider and I'm not sure why you think guys like the ones I listed aren't taking it into consideration Fauci's background is in immunology but he has been apart of comprehensive national infectious disease response for decades now. You can say the same for Osterholm and infectious disease research.

If we don't want to take the word of any individual (which I would argue is definitely the better option) then it's best to look at medical society and task-force guidelines pretty much all of which go against what these guys are saying (a petition =/= a societal/taskforce consensus statement/guideline).  I've said before that it is going to take decades to fully appreciate and detail the impact from COVID and many things we think may change between now and then so no should be "sure" about anything.  But there's a big difference between caution and making an equivalency between the best available data and expert opinions of the majority and a opinions of a few individuals.

Fair enough. I just think that Amazon's SP hitting $3,500 at the same time that 80% of small businesses that close won't reopen is going to do way, way, way more harm.  Whether we like it or not, our entire lives are built going to work and then enjoying the fruits of our labor - home, health, happiness.  When you take away jobs, you literally take away people's abilities to live a healthy life.

Do you think mandatory shutdowns are the best option for society? If so, why?  If not, why not? 

3 hours ago, IFB DOG said:

Fair enough. I just think that Amazon's SP hitting $3,500 at the same time that 80% of small businesses that close won't reopen is going to do way, way, way more harm.  Whether we like it or not, our entire lives are built going to work and then enjoying the fruits of our labor - home, health, happiness.  When you take away jobs, you literally take away people's abilities to live a healthy life.

Do you think mandatory shutdowns are the best option for society? If so, why?  If not, why not? 

I agree with that.

My opinion is that shut downs may be the best thing if cases continue to trend the way they are if we start to approach overwhelming our hospital systems. They should be as targeted and short lived as possible based on the best available data.  That decision should be guided by not only case numbers, but robust and comprehensive testing/tracing programs as well as local hospital ICU capacity ventilator availability and PPE supplies. Business lockdowns should be prioritized based on the business necessity, the ability of that business to function remotely, the risk of spread that business poses (outdoor vs indoor, crowdedness, some increasing evidence that young children are less likely spreaders compared to adults etc).  I also think that a more robust stimulus package should be enacted in order to keep some more businesses afloat (eg the lack of funding for independent restaurant owners).

Relatively unobtrusive measures like mask wearing and enforcing crowd limits should be enforced in an attempt to curb the need for more extreme measures.

Those are my opinions based on the data I've read and experts I trust.

3 hours ago, mr_hunt said:

biden didn't organize the victory celebrations...and he's been encouraging mask wearing all along...even before the was elected. 

 

 

 

Biggest mask you'll ever see!!!!