1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

Are you joking? Sweden is FAR FAR better than those places and others like Spain and the UK.  Not even close.

The UK has been a freaking disaster in every sense of the word. 

5 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

The UK has been a freaking disaster in every sense of the word. 

Yep.  The one that sticks out as positive to me is Germany.  They've had their social unrest with protests, etc. but their numbers are very very good and the country is very populated, has a large immigrant base, etc.  They've done an excellent job in a complex environment.

UK approves vaccine for emergency use: 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55145696

@we_gotta_believe McConnell shot down a 908 billion dollar stimulus plan. Now he's the ass not pelosi. 

 

5 hours ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

There is no way a year from now or even 8 months from now will there be vaccine around and the virus still spreading because a bunch of people won't take the vaccine, it will be forced upon those people somehow. I am so sure I would put this is the category of guarantees like my NFl season one 

Lol I knew the NFL was greedy but damn. Letting games continue when teams don't even have any QBs is just ridiculous IMO. 

The government will soon have an open revolt on their hands if they keep doing stuff like this. And they should.

1 hour ago, 20dawk4life said:

@we_gotta_believe McConnell shot down a 908 billion dollar stimulus plan. Now he's the ass not pelosi. 

Would you look at that. Just look at it.

 

 

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Would you look at that. Just look at it.

8 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

Are you joking? Sweden is FAR FAR better than those places and others like Spain and the UK.  Not even close.

I've seen a few articles like that one.  They jump on the fact that the Swedish govt has been more vocal now to push people to observe the measures.  What the articles don't do is offer any of the statistical facts.  The bottom line is the 2nd wave is half the size of the 1st one.  The govt expected it to be an even smaller 2nd wave than what we've actually seen.  So the govt has been very aggressive to push in the media for people to be diligent.

The one key argument for "failure" is the comparison of the rates of death to the other Nordic countries.  That is absolutely a relevant stat though Sweden is quite different from those other places so far from perfect.

What stat do you prefer over death rate?

3 hours ago, Kz! said:

The government will soon have an open revolt on their hands if they keep doing stuff like this. And they should.

Josiah (one of my friends going way back to high school) is interviewed in this clip. He owns 2 five star restaurants in LA.   

He is getting destroyed by all this.  He has a bunch of overhead and there is no take-out food option.  
https://www.foxla.com/news/la-county-supervisor-dines-at-restaurant-hours-after-voting-to-ban-outdoor-dining

7 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

What stat do you prefer over death rate?

That's a pretty good one.  The only one that is better is the excess mortality numbers.  Comparing those among different places requires a bit of context though if you want to figure out who's doing a better job.

In any case, all of those places he mentioned, Belgium, Italy, France plus several other major Euro countries have death rates far higher than Sweden.  Not even close.

6 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

Josiah (one of my friends going way back to high school) is interviewed in this clip. He owns 2 five star restaurants in LA.   

He is getting destroyed by all this.  He has a bunch of overhead and there is no take-out food option.  
https://www.foxla.com/news/la-county-supervisor-dines-at-restaurant-hours-after-voting-to-ban-outdoor-dining

this stuff is absolutely heartbreaking. I'm not really sure what the expectation is though. 

if we try to operate as normal, we're going to see hospitals overrun. we're already seeing it now, and that's with restrictions in place in most populated areas. 

there is no good answer. the virus has forced society to make a choice: operate as normal and have people die and/or suffer potentially lifetime effects from contracting the virus, or function minimally and limit as much contact as possible to help mitigate the spread, saving lives but costing business.

9 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

Josiah (one of my friends going way back to high school) is interviewed in this clip. He owns 2 five star restaurants in LA.   

He is getting destroyed by all this.  He has a bunch of overhead and there is no take-out food option.  
https://www.foxla.com/news/la-county-supervisor-dines-at-restaurant-hours-after-voting-to-ban-outdoor-dining

Independent restaurant owners have arguably been the most screwed by all this.  Not nearly enough support from the original stimulus package and with Trump walking away from the table on the second one they're going to wait through several really tough months with cases spiking and winter coming. At least for your buddy's sake in LA the weather shouldn't be as much of a factor in reducing outdoor dining/takeout traffic as say the north east.

7 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

this stuff is absolutely heartbreaking. I'm not really sure what the expectation is though. 

if we try to operate as normal, we're going to see hospitals overrun. we're already seeing it now, and that's with restrictions in place in most populated areas. 

there is no good answer. the virus has forced society to make a choice: operate as normal and have people die and/or suffer potentially lifetime effects from contracting the virus, or function minimally and limit as much contact as possible to help mitigate the spread, saving lives but costing business.

Agreed but there are some better answers, like mask mandates and gathering limitations and not walking away from a second badly needed stimulus bill as we're about to hit winter time and cases are spiking.  We were never going to save every business, but we didn't need to lose as many as we're going to.  

Republicans Make Up 70% Of The Members Of Congress Who Have Tested Positive For Covid-19

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/11/29/republicans-make-up-70-of-the-members-of-congress-who-have-tested-positive-for-covid-19/?sh=349a8cec45b7

Weird. It's almost like the virus doesn't care about how tough you think you look. These idiots need to learn there are no moral victories here. The virus won't cower in defeat if you get infected and barely survive in what you think is a valiant effort to preserve freedom. This thing will be mowing people down by the millions and yet some people are still arrogant enough to think a brush with death is worth fealty to the dumbest president of all time. It boggles the mind.

8 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

this stuff is absolutely heartbreaking. I'm not really sure what the expectation is though. 

if we try to operate as normal, we're going to see hospitals overrun. we're already seeing it now, and that's with restrictions in place in most populated areas. 

there is no good answer. the virus has forced society to make a choice: operate as normal and have people die and/or suffer potentially lifetime effects from contracting the virus, or function minimally and limit as much contact as possible to help mitigate the spread, saving lives but costing business.

Or look for a balance that keeps hospitals from overflowing, most restaurants in business, and saves the vast majority of lives.

Every single policy item is a trade off.  This one is no different in that matter.  What made this incredibly different to start and still to a certain degree was the seriousness of the matter plus the unknown factor, i.e. we had no idea how deadly it was or how it spread.  We know a lot more now though there is still a ton that we do not know.

9 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Independent restaurant owners have arguably been the most screwed by all this.  Not nearly enough support from the original stimulus package and with Trump walking away from the table on the second one they're going to wait through several really tough months with cases spiking and winter coming. At least for your buddy's sake in LA the weather shouldn't be as much of a factor in reducing outdoor dining/takeout traffic as say the north east.

LA banned outdoor dining. Restaurants are livid.

10 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

this stuff is absolutely heartbreaking. I'm not really sure what the expectation is though. 

if we try to operate as normal, we're going to see hospitals overrun. we're already seeing it now, and that's with restrictions in place in most populated areas. 

there is no good answer. the virus has forced society to make a choice: operate as normal and have people die and/or suffer potentially lifetime effects from contracting the virus, or function minimally and limit as much contact as possible to help mitigate the spread, saving lives but costing business.

Yeah. Im my friends case, all his emoloyees are high end chefs and whatnot.  And he has a bunch if them just waiting to go to work.  

5 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Agreed but there are some better answers, like mask mandates and gathering limitations and not walking away from a second badly needed stimulus bill as we're about to hit winter time and cases are spiking.  We were never going to save every business, but we didn't need to lose as many as we're going to.  

Yes.  We were never going to save every business and we were never going to save every life.  That's pure reality.  Keeping one's eye on the ball has meant dealing with those realities since day 1.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

LA banned outdoor dining. Restaurants are livid.

OOF that's a rough one. Just looked at the case numbers in California and like everywhere it's not looking good, but that could be a death knell for a lot of restaurants.  Is it an indefinite ban?  We're doing a "2 week pause" cause the hospitals are at capacity, but we'll see what happens at the end of those 2 weeks.  My wife's hospital ran out of remdesivir entirely.  

23 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

this stuff is absolutely heartbreaking. I'm not really sure what the expectation is though. 

if we try to operate as normal, we're going to see hospitals overrun. we're already seeing it now, and that's with restrictions in place in most populated areas. 

there is no good answer. the virus has forced society to make a choice: operate as normal and have people die and/or suffer potentially lifetime effects from contracting the virus, or function minimally and limit as much contact as possible to help mitigate the spread, saving lives but costing business.

The government should be efficiently providing small business relief. This is squarely on the shoulders of Diaper Don and Moscow Mitch. 

18 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Independent restaurant owners have arguably been the most screwed by all this.  Not nearly enough support from the original stimulus package and with Trump walking away from the table on the second one they're going to wait through several really tough months with cases spiking and winter coming. At least for your buddy's sake in LA the weather shouldn't be as much of a factor in reducing outdoor dining/takeout traffic as say the north east.

A restaurant in the area built little geodesic domes on their patio to surround tables in their own little pods. They called them igloos and decorated them for the holidays. F'ing brilliant idea. 

4 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Lol I knew the NFL was greedy but damn. Letting games continue when teams don't even have any QBs is just ridiculous IMO. 

All they care about is money