1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

 

Slamming the breaks is a good measure to gain a basic level of control but ultimately there are only two choices.  1) Lock every one down for an indefinite period of time and pray for a vaccine.  2) Open up as much as possible while controlling the curve.

#1 - This isn't feasible for much longer.  I think the US is near the end of the road already and a vaccine is no where in sight relatively speaking.

#2 - Realistically, this is the only option that makes sense and in fact it is the one all the leading experts talk about every single time they present the information. It is all about controlling the curve and it is not about shutting it down entirely as that just isn't possible from a practical standpoint.  Even if herd immunity doesn't actually occur this is still a better option overall in the situation where a vaccine is still several years out.  We just can't shut down civilization for that long.  Much better to do all the things you want to do with social distancing, hygiene, smart working from home setups, limited openings for restaurants, etc. etc.  All that stuff is how the curve remains controlled without a full shutdown.  I'm watching it happen daily in Sweden.  Are the numbers somewhat higher?  Yes, but the curve is under control, the hospitals are not overflowing, and we keep a sense of normalcy.

I agree the lockdown is not a sustainable solution. As I've been saying for weeks now (or at least it feels like weeks, I've completely lost all sense of time during this situation), there is no reason for the economy to not be opened back up, provided that people wear masks when in public spaces, physical distancing is maintained where practical, and people practice good hand hygiene.   South Korea and Japan didn't go into long term lockdown.

In the end, it's up to the people to stop the spread of this virus.  Government policy doesn't matter in the face of people not taking proper precautions.  

My buddy sent me a picture today of the Ocean City, NJ boardwalk.  It was absolutely packed, and VERY few people wearing a mask.  Apparently people just don't give a sh-t.  And the longer people don't care, the longer it's going to take the economy to recover.  

 

Project warp speed and this: 

Is this just rip off Gene Roddenberry day? 

4 hours ago, Smokesdawg said:

So, more cognitive decline here. He struggles with the word "simultaneously” and then has to define the word; not for the audience but for himself. Talking it out makes him confirm that he understood it. 

He seems to like repeating the same words that he thinks mean something a lot of times

4 hours ago, Outlaw said:

I don’t disagree that this obviously written by President Trump statement is ridiculous...but do we need to use the word retarded against what is a very well educated woman in a derogatory manner?  Not very left wing of you. 

I use it against anyone who worships at the feet of Orange Man. Especially the buttholes around here. Also Bernie Bros. They get it too.

2 hours ago, DEagle7 said:

Oh gee whiz of course! Why didn't I think of that? So clearly the better solution is to just let them sit in hospitals, increasing hospital burden and increasing exposure risk there?  Or just send them to rag-tag volunteer-based acute centers that are not qualified to take care of patients with any significant complexity that don't exist in large swatches of the country?

Brilliant!  Way better solutions than sending them to the facilities specifically and qualified to manage sick, complicated and sometimes dying patients who are no longer benefitting from a hospital. 

Keep up the good work Anthony Fauxchi 

Lmao imagine if Trump were the one that forced COVID patients into nursing homes. Just imagine for one second. Literally hitler doesn’t even scratch the surface of what you and your fellow ishlibs would call him. There would be investgations into the decision.

35 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

I use it against anyone who worships at the feet of Orange Man. Especially the buttholes around here. Also Bernie Bros. They get it too.

It’s cool man. Makes you look like an ignorant ahole but to each their own. 

18 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Lmao I don't know sheet about this subject and have no retort so I'm going to retreat with my tail behind my legs to a weak arse liberal-Hitler hypothetical before slinking away to Twitter to pull my liddle pud to Benny tweets and QANON conspiracy theories.  

Sounds good buddy. Do you.

16 hours ago, EagleVA said:

We go back to normal when Bill Gates is either out of the picture or he gets is wish of vaccinating the entire world, until either of those that happen they'll continue the facade.

BTW, his vaccination is all about population reduction so expect the lockdown to ramp up in wave two, nobody will see the light of day until a year or longer from now, they're already talking about the dark winter.

goddamn you're stupid. 

10 hours ago, mr_hunt said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/california-biopharmaceutical-company-claims-coronavirus-antibody-breakthrough/ar-BB147Tvt?li=BBnb7Kz

 

so is that what Elizabeth Holmes is up to now?

51 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Lmao imagine if Trump were the one that forced COVID patients into nursing homes. Just imagine for one second. Literally hitler doesn’t even scratch the surface of what you and your fellow ishlibs would call him. There would be investgations into the decision.

A number of New York lawmakers are requesting an independent investigation into Cuomo’s decision to send recovering COVID patients to nursing homes.

49 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

A number of New York lawmakers are requesting an independent investigation into Cuomo’s decision to send recovering COVID patients to nursing homes.

Must be anon conspiracy theorists right deagle? Lmfao

 

 

4 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Must be anon conspiracy theorists right deagle? Lmfao

Sounds like those people are just as clueless as you you are. 

Still waiting on your alternative proposal for where to put those patients. I'm sure it's coming any minute now.

7 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said:

I agree the lockdown is not a sustainable solution. As I've been saying for weeks now (or at least it feels like weeks, I've completely lost all sense of time during this situation), there is no reason for the economy to not be opened back up, provided that people wear masks when in public spaces, physical distancing is maintained where practical, and people practice good hand hygiene.   South Korea and Japan didn't go into long term lockdown.

In the end, it's up to the people to stop the spread of this virus.  Government policy doesn't matter in the face of people not taking proper precautions.  

My buddy sent me a picture today of the Ocean City, NJ boardwalk.  It was absolutely packed, and VERY few people wearing a mask.  Apparently people just don't give a sh-t.  And the longer people don't care, the longer it's going to take the economy to recover.  

 

They didn't have to because their citizens allowed contact tracing and didn't throw a fit about it.  Hell here in WA they are asking for phone numbers when you dine in so they can contact you if somebody had covid at the same time you were in the place.  I asked what the big deal was about giving your phone number to a restaurant and here were some of the responses I got (Keep in mind that these people are all posting on FB, using google and own smartphones that are tracking them already):

My OP:  "OK I'll bite: You are all worried about your phone numbers, but have no problem posting on FB or being on Google? You know Cambridge Analytica sold all of your info (From FB) to Russia YEARS ago right lol? That smartphone you stare at everyday also has more info on you than just your phone number btw.

Here is my question: What insidious deeds will a restaurant do with your phone number that FB and Google already haven't and what is this a slippery slope TO (That last part especially and I honestly am curious)?"

1.  I am not going to a restaurant to give my information there for those a-holes to follow me. I am also not going to a place that has partitions between each table and limit 5 total to a table. I generally go with a group. I am also not wearing a mask if I don’t have to, I think the masks are BS. Truth be told, I’d rather eat at home.
PS If they are reading this now, one of those motherFers come at me with a vaccine, I won’t go out without a fight. There is my truth."

2.  Also no one is coming to my house because some a-hole at a restaurant had Covid.
Jay Inslee’s contact tracers won’t be coming to my house to quarantine me. I am over our governors BS and his Fing sheep. Again hope I am clear... not arguing it’s been a tough year and I am ready to get back to normal. If no one likes what I have to say I truly don’t care anymore. Sorry for being harsh but it’s my truth. Not worried about others feelings."

3.  If I go to a restaurant and give them all of my information, and some Joe blow decides that he wants to go to the same restaurant with Covid, then they come and track me down put me in quarantine with no choice, regardless if I have it or not. I am not giving them the privilege to do that to me.
I don’t go anywhere right now so they have no reason to come to my door. If they do it won’t be pretty.
If someone decides that they’re fine with going to restaurant by all means be my guest and go I will not until everything is back to "normal”.

4.   the "slippery slope” is the complacency to keep giving them little bits of permission to track us for our safety then, BOOM! You are now at the bottom of the slope and they’re tattooing you with Bill Gates digital certificate. And all along it’s under the guise of our safety and well-being. I know they already have all of our information and they can track us now, but we all need to be aware that this is the US government and they will use it for purposes beyond the reasons they give.

5.  Inslee is pulling back on this. Huge back lash. I don't want some Joe Shmo at a restaurant to have my personal info. Sounds like a huge lawsuit waiting to happen. Next thing you know we will have theft, rape ect. It just won't work. Invasion on so many levels. Period! ACLU is after him now too. I see it as a no go so probably nothing to worry about. We hope anyway.

6.   I would like to know how many other states has this same ludicrous policy. I would say very few if any... We all know our information is out there but it’s a buzz kill to go in to a restaurant and have to "log in”. No thanks! It’s crazy and there is no denying it. I go to enjoy a meal, some great wine, great company, the energy. Now they want my info, what an evasion of privacy and quite controlling if you ask me.

It's actually voluntary to participate in this now BTW.......

8 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said:

I agree the lockdown is not a sustainable solution. As I've been saying for weeks now (or at least it feels like weeks, I've completely lost all sense of time during this situation), there is no reason for the economy to not be opened back up, provided that people wear masks when in public spaces, physical distancing is maintained where practical, and people practice good hand hygiene.   South Korea and Japan didn't go into long term lockdown.

In the end, it's up to the people to stop the spread of this virus.  Government policy doesn't matter in the face of people not taking proper precautions.  

My buddy sent me a picture today of the Ocean City, NJ boardwalk.  It was absolutely packed, and VERY few people wearing a mask.  Apparently people just don't give a sh-t.  And the longer people don't care, the longer it's going to take the economy to recover.  

 

Right and then we are aligned and Vikas is correct. His #4 really says "move slowly and controlled toward herd immunity and hope for a vaccine along the way”. 

Just remember herd immunity is what you get AFTER all the susceptible die.

3 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

Right and then we are aligned and Vikas is correct. His #4 really says "move slowly and controlled toward herd immunity and hope for a vaccine along the way”. 

But what I said is not a move towards herd immunity.  If people take proper precautions, then we never get anywhere near herd immunity.  If we reach herd immunity, then A LOT of people are going to die.

Daily update from the doc

https://www.nothingbutthetruthmd.com/2020/05/51520-covid-19-update.html?m=1

Good evening,

GATHERING IN GROUPS WITHOUT MASKS ON IS VERY DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH

 

Superspreaders

 

High SARS-CoV-2 Attack Rate Following Exposure at Choir Practice

Weekly Morbidity and Mortality Report

5/12/20

 

Skagit County, Washington

 

A 2.5 hour choir practice, involving 61 participants, with a single symptomatic index case, resulted in 32 confirmed cases of Covid-19 and 20 probably cases secondary to Covid-19.  Three patients were hospitalized and two patients died.

 

Transmission was likely facilitated by close proximity (less than six feet) during choir practice and augmented by the act of singing.

 

Enhancing community awareness of such events may help encourage symptomatic persons and contacts of ill persons, to isolate or self quarantine preventing ongoing transmission.  Absent pharmaceutical intervention, the only means of controlling the virus is to prevent it from finding a host.  So far we have been pretty amenable to entertaining the virus.  The next phase of confronting the disease caused by this virus is to quickly find potentially infected patients (probably 50% will be asymptomatic) and isolate them, prevent the inoculated individual from spreading the virus to another human.  We have millions of  unemployed individuals who could quickly be utilized to track and trace contacts to help eradicate the virus. 

 

On 3-17-20 members of the Skagit County, Washington choir informed Skagit County Public Health (SCPH) that several members of the 122 member choir had become ill.  Three persons tested positive for SARS-CoV-2  and 25 people had symptoms consistent  with the disease.  The SCPH obtained a choir members list and on 3-18-20 initiated an investigation.

 

Practice provided opportunities for droplet and fomite transmission.  Members were sitting close together.  They shared snacks and at the end of practice they stacked chairs.  Possibly the act of singing, through emission of aerosols which are affected by the loudness of vocalization facilitated transmission.  It is also possible that there was a supermitter, a person who releases more aerosol particles during speech than does his peers

 

The practice in question occurred on 3-10-20.  On 3-15-20 the choir director sent emails out to the membership alerting them to the fact that at least six members had developed fevers and two had been tested for SARS-CoV-2 and were awaiting results  By 3-16-20, three members had tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 and reported this information to two seperate health jurisdictions without indications of a common source for the infections.  On 3-17-20 the choir director sent a second email to membership advising them that 24 members had reported symptoms.  The email contained advice about social distancing and the signs and symptoms of Covid-19.  This email led many of the membership to self quarantine and a delegate notified SCPH of the situation.

 

Between 3-18-20 and 3-20-20, 115 members were interviewed by phone.  People without symptoms were advised to self quarantine for 14 days from the last practice attended.  At the prior practice on 3-3-20 there were no symptomatic members, but one of the attendees developed symptoms on 3-7-20 and subsequently had a positive RT-PCR.  At the 3-3-20 practice there were 78 members in attendance.  At the 3-10-20 practice there were 61 in attendance.  Overall 51 (65.4%) of the members who attended the 3-3-20 practice became ill, all but one attended the 3-10-20 practice.  Of  the 61 at the 3-10-20 practice, 52 (86.7%) became ill.  Among 21 members who attended only the 3-3-20 practice, only one became ill but was not tested.  Among 3 members who only attended the 3-10-20 practice, two became ill.

 

Of those that became ill 92.5% became ill between 3-11-20 and 3-15-20 making point source exposure likely.  The odds of becoming ill after attending the 3-10-20 practice were 127.5 times greater than for those who did not attend.

 

Median age of the choir members was 69 (range 31-83) and 84% were women.  Median age of those infected was 69, and 85% were women.  For those hospitalized, interval from illness onset to hospital was 12 days.  Interval from onset of illness to death was 14 days and 15 days.  All hospitalized patients had two or more comorbidities.

 

South Korea has just recently had a similar incident where it appears that one individual attending several events infected 40 individuals.

 

 

Numbers:  1800 from the Hopkins Website

 

Tests - 10,720,185 (378,410 tests performed in the last 24 hours)

 

USA - 1,439,434 (up 1.85%, up from 1.72%)

 

New York - 345,813 (up 0.80%, up from 0.70%)

 

New Jersey - 143,984 (up o.89%, up from 0.80%)

 

Pennsylvania - 64,134 (up 1.63%, down from 1.76%, 65 fewer new cases in the last 24 hours)

 

Maryland - 36,956 (up 2.93%, down from 3.13%, 48 fewer new cases in the last 24 hours)

 

California - 76,354 (up 1.89%, down from 3.24%,1003 fewer new cases in the last 24 hours)

 

South Carolina - 8407 ( up 2.61 %, no comparison because yesterdays numbers represented 2 days)

 

Texas - 45,208 (up 2.85%, down from 2.99%, 23 fewer new cases in the last 24 hours)

 

World - 4,523,916 (up 2.19%, down from 2.21% BUT  1024 MORE new cases in the last 24 hours)

 

It is very important to get back to work.  Essential workers are now mandated to wear facial covers.  Value yourself, be essential, wear a mask while at work.

 

Please pass this message to others.

 

Thank you

 

Live Safely

Be Well

 

53 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

But what I said is not a move towards herd immunity.  If people take proper precautions, then we never get anywhere near herd immunity.  If we reach herd immunity, then A LOT of people are going to die.

If you move to open up at all you're going to get more COVID and more deaths.  The more measures that are in place to slow things down the less you get.  That's pretty simple.  The question is how much to open up and what the long term strategy is generally.

I'm suggesting having two pokers in the fire in parallel.  One is to push, hope, and pray for a vaccine AND at the same time move things slowly and controlled in the direction of herd immunity.  What I don't believe in is trying to wait for a vaccine as the only strategy.

This is all about risk and trade offs just like anything else.

39 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

If you move to open up at all you're going to get more COVID and more deaths.  The more measures that are in place to slow things down the less you get.  That's pretty simple.  The question is how much to open up and what the long term strategy is generally.

I'm suggesting having two pokers in the fire in parallel.  One is to push, hope, and pray for a vaccine AND at the same time move things slowly and controlled in the direction of herd immunity.  What I don't believe in is trying to wait for a vaccine as the only strategy.

This is all about risk and trade offs just like anything else.

You won’t get more cases and deaths if people are smart and take proper precautions.  That’s my point, government policy doesn’t mean jack in the face of people not taking precautions.    There are plenty of countries with more restrictive policies that have ended up with SIGNIFICANTLY higher death rates per capita than countries with less restrictions (or countries that only had a short period of restrictions and have now opened up).  That’s because it comes down to the people to do the right thing.

The OC Boardwalk was packed last night, with VERY few people wearing a mask.   Why were so few wearing masks when they knew they were not going to be able to maintain physical distances from others? Boggles my mind.
A country will never get to herd immunity without a vaccine.  The virus has to spread way too fast in order to reach a 70% infection rate.   You’d have to purposefully spread it to do so.  
And considering that we don’t even know how long antibody protection would last for, and it is very possible it’s only 40 weeks, it would be a VERY dangerous policy to try to get to a 70% infection rate within a year, only to have to go through it all again the next year when antibody protection wears off.

The future all liberals want...

 

1 hour ago, Phillyterp85 said:

You won’t get more cases and deaths if people are smart and take proper precautions.  That’s my point, government policy doesn’t mean jack in the face of people not taking precautions.    There are plenty of countries with more restrictive policies that have ended up with SIGNIFICANTLY higher death rates per capita than countries with less restrictions (or countries that only had a short period of restrictions and have now opened up).  That’s because it comes down to the people to do the right thing.

The OC Boardwalk was packed last night, with VERY few people wearing a mask.   Why were so few wearing masks when they knew they were not going to be able to maintain physical distances from others? Boggles my mind.
A country will never get to herd immunity without a vaccine.  The virus has to spread way too fast in order to reach a 70% infection rate.   You’d have to purposefully spread it to do so.  
And considering that we don’t even know how long antibody protection would last for, and it is very possible it’s only 40 weeks, it would be a VERY dangerous policy to try to get to a 70% infection rate within a year, only to have to go through it all again the next year when antibody protection wears off.

This This This.  you ask me where Trump is doing catastrophic damage and directly causing mass death, it's right here.  Tethering his brand to rebellion against the basic prevention measures.

 

Hell if Donald Trump spent every day raging about opening America up AND at the same time telling people to take the precautions, this guy might actually win MY vote.  But he doesn't and the only reason is because he still thinks he can will the country into a 90% economic recovery by November, which of course is madness.

 

If it is actually true that Trump spends every night thinking about the dying, if this man has a shred of compassion for his citizens facing this, for Go'd sf'ing sake, TELL YOUR PEOPLE CONSTANTLY TO TAKE THE PRECAUTIONS. 

1 hour ago, Phillyterp85 said:

You won’t get more cases and deaths if people are smart and take proper precautions.  That’s my point, government policy doesn’t mean jack in the face of people not taking precautions.    There are plenty of countries with more restrictive policies that have ended up with SIGNIFICANTLY higher death rates per capita than countries with less restrictions (or countries that only had a short period of restrictions and have now opened up).  That’s because it comes down to the people to do the right thing.

The OC Boardwalk was packed last night, with VERY few people wearing a mask.   Why were so few wearing masks when they knew they were not going to be able to maintain physical distances from others? Boggles my mind.
A country will never get to herd immunity without a vaccine.  The virus has to spread way too fast in order to reach a 70% infection rate.   You’d have to purposefully spread it to do so.  
And considering that we don’t even know how long antibody protection would last for, and it is very possible it’s only 40 weeks, it would be a VERY dangerous policy to try to get to a 70% infection rate within a year, only to have to go through it all again the next year when antibody protection wears off.

Of course you'll get more cases.  Humans are imperfect and the world is unpredictable. The more people are out the more cases you'll get.  The only question is how many.  Taking precautions will of course slow it down but it won't stop it.  The rates are going to go up with less restrictive and/or less followed policies.  That's just simply a fact.

As for the rates themselves across different placess, yes they are different and there are a TON of factors.  It isn't just related to the policies though they are important as well.  Things like population density, population health, "nearness" of people culturally, family culture in terms of generations living with each other, basic cultural norms such as cheek kissing, etc. all are very significant factors.  Medical infrastructure, equipment, education, coordination, processes, etc. are all very important.  In other words, the rate comparisons of country vs country (or state vs state) simply cannot be compared with a simple number in any scientifically serious comparison.  In any case, the more important thing to consider is how the rates match the strategy.

The reason why ultimate decision lies with the elected leaders and not simply with the medical experts is that as horrible as COVID is it is still only one part of the overall societal equation.  A very important one right now but still only one.  For example, longer term both the mental health of the population and the overall economic situation are very likely going to determine the 20 or 40yr level of health across a population much more so than this virus will.  Those are also important factors to consider among many many others.

Also, herd immunity is entirely doable though of course the timing is not well understood as each virus is unique in terms of its potential to spread.  None the less, all the experts I've read say it is possible though they don't share a consensus as to what rate it needed and how long it takes to get there.

The fact that this hasn't already occurred is completely absurd:

 

16 hours ago, The_Omega said:

A right of center poster calling it out is expected. That no left of center, or even "centrist” posters ever do is telling.

 

12 hours ago, Outlaw said:

It’s cool man. Makes you look like an ignorant ahole but to each their own. 

Yet you guys have no problem defending this...

18 hours ago, Outlaw said:

I don’t disagree that this obviously written by President Trump statement is ridiculous...but do we need to use the word retarded against what is a very well educated woman in a derogatory manner?  Not very left wing of you. 

I know you're in love with her but you are right that she is super smart and talented.  She is also fully capable of swallowing for Trump it would seem.